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#1985688 - 11/12/12 11:02 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Norbert]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7222
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
All I can say is that the sound was unmistakingly Brodmann. We had too many, heard too many..

The recording standard was very high which certainly helped.

Fedorova also performs on many other pianos so yes, this was most likely a paid demo.

But very nice nonetheless.



Indeed very nice. But whether it was or it wasn't what it might have been or might not have been, we're probably not going to know conclusively.

I contacted Mateusz Zahora, the owner of the studio that did the photo shoot and the video, to ask him the specifics. Here are his comments....

Quote:
Audio was delivered by Anna Fedorova prior to making the video. She is the only one who can specify what particular piano was used to record those pieces. My studio have done video, editing and photos. (you can see them on our website http://studio.zahora.eu/en/galleries/people/anna-fedorova-pisarzowice-2 )

Brodmann as a company didn't pay anything at all. All this project was financed by Me, Anna Fedorova and Bohdan Szydzisz from pianoexpert.eu. This project was planned to promote Anna as a pianist. I knew that video and the photos will be quite attractive in advertisement but it was not our first target in this project. After releasing the video Polish distributor shoved it to brodmann CEO and he contacted us.

As for the photos. Brodmann and his reseller can not use them for advertising purposes, as they didn't ask for them.

So in short:
The video was not shot for
Brodmann, was not paid by
Brodmann, and we treated it from
purely artistic point of view.


When I mentioned to Mr. Zahora that it might be better for advertising purposes if the piano heard and the piano seen be the same, he replied....

Quote:


There could be an option. We can try to make another recording and then change the videos. but this is quite hard to do. There is no 212 Brodmann piano anywhere near. Anna is unavailable now since she has concert in Carnegie Hall soon and additionally we don't have budget to do a professional recording now.


Of course one could question wny an artist had enough confidence in a piano to highlight it in a video to promote her career, but not enough confidence to let it be heard, but that would probably be unfair for many reasons.

1) Doing the audio as well as the video in the church would have added to the expense considerably. I think we can safely assume that PianoExpert, the Polish distribution agent for Brodmann products, picked up the tab for placing the Brodmann 212 in the church.

2) As a touring artist with a very busy schedule, time may have been an issue

3) The Winter Wind Etude is a signature piece for Ms. Fedorova. Counting the new Brodmann promo which is prominent on her personal website, she now has three different videos of the piece on her site. She may have simply wanted to be heard through what she felt was her best performance.

4) Ms. Fedorova was probably not taking into account any piano authenticity issue because she wanted the video to promote her career, not to promote a piano brand. Both the audio and video are authentically hers. They just don't happen to match.

One could also debate whether Brodmann's prominent use of the clip on its own website is misleading, but it seems Brodmann was in the end licensing the use of a video that had already been made, and was not directly responsible for any mismatched misleading content. I suppose that Brodmann could inquire as to what brand and model of piano was in the audio, but as you mentioned, whatever it was sounded terrific. From Brodmann's point of view it probably seems best to leave well enough alone. grin
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1985748 - 11/12/12 03:07 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: turandot]
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10490
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: turandot
One could also debate whether Brodmann's prominent use of the clip on its own website is misleading, but it seems Brodmann was in the end licensing the use of a video that had already been made, and was not directly responsible for any mismatched misleading content. I suppose that Brodmann could inquire as to what brand and model of piano was in the audio, but as you mentioned, whatever it was sounded terrific. From Brodmann's point of view it probably seems best to leave well enough alone. grin


I know Brodmann's management and I believe that, had they known the audio was not a Brodmann, they would likely not have used the clip.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1985754 - 11/12/12 03:23 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
It is unfortunate that the recording was not made on a Brodmann, yet piano was used in video.

Upon investigation from my side, this has since been confirmed by recording staff involved.

This also was part of their statement:

Quote:
The video was not shot for Brodmann, was not paid by Brodmann, and we treated it from purely artistic point of view.



At same time I stand by my opinion that the piano used did bear an uncanny resemblance to 7' Brodmann sound.

At least judging from recorded files....

Here's a 'real' one for comparison:



Norbert


Edited by Norbert (11/12/12 03:34 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1985774 - 11/12/12 04:07 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Steve Cohen]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7222
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen


I know Brodmann's management and I believe that, had they known the audio was not a Brodmann, they would likely not have used the clip.


Steve,

I have no reason to disagree with you. The arrangements under which this happened were unusual. It would be unfair to point a finger at the Brodmann company. Three parties were involved in the prouction. Mateusz Zahora had one objective. The artist had another. PianoExpert, the Brodmann distributor for Poland, had another. The Brodmann company was not involved in the production. They simply licensed the resulting video for use on their site.

Norbert,

I think "unfortunate" is the correct word. I agree with you.

Comparing the two videos, I don't hear the pianos as that close, but there are so many variables -- listener subjectivity, playing styles and levels, styles of music, and recording techniques to mention a few -- that a meaningful comparison is virtually impossible.

What strikes me about this situation is how the world has changed. Can you imagine Alicia de Larrocha or Wanda Landowska lying flat on the lid of a grand piano in a slinky dress to promote their careers as artists? grin

It's a tough brazen world we live in. Artists have to put a lot of obvious effort into carving out their niche.


But whatever it is exactly and whatever it might have been, it is a very compelling and convincing rendition of Opus 25, #11.
_________________________
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1985942 - 11/12/12 11:54 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
GoodS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 3
Hi, Chen, thank you for clarification. So all kawai k8 parts, hammers, sound board, wires are made in Japan and the k8 was assembled and made in Japan, right?

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#1985977 - 11/13/12 02:38 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: GoodS]
chen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 177
Loc: yichang city china mainland
yes you are right ! all parts made in japan and assembled and made in Japan
_________________________
http://www.parsonsmusic.com/ www.kawaiyc.com http://www.yangtzeriver-pianos.com/

We produce and sell KAWAI Yangtzeriver Wilh.Steinberg Ronisch Brodmann Schonbrunn

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#1986008 - 11/13/12 05:12 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 367
Loc: Pennsylvania
Isn't the current state of information that we don't know what piano was pre-recorded?

The tone of the discussion seems to have concluded that it was not a Brodmann. How so?

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#1986058 - 11/13/12 09:23 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
GoodS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 3
Hi, Chen, that means your confirmation indicates all kawai k8 selling in Japan, Singapore, hong kong etc and their parts are made and assembled in Japan. Good to hear this.

By the way, sometimes, found the pressurized wool of the hammers on the newer k8 is somehow a bit "loose"... Any such observation?

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#1986066 - 11/13/12 09:39 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: jrcallan]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7222
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: jrcallan
Isn't the current state of information that we don't know what piano was pre-recorded?

The tone of the discussion seems to have concluded that it was not a Brodmann. How so?


I don't think it's the tone. Maybe I'm biased, but I think the tone has been pretty objective. It's really a question of facts.

All available facts indicate that the piano on the pre-recorded audio was not made on a Brodmann. There is no indication that it was a Brodmann. These facts would include some comments from project staff on the scene -- comments that were only alluded to here.

However, there is no clear evidence as to what piano was actually being played in the audio clip, so in that sense the facts are inconclusive. As the studio owner put it, only the artist could say with certainty.

What's important to keep in mind is that there is absolutely no indication that the Brodmann company attempted to rig a promotional vidoe in its favor by manipulating the sound. It comes down to a decision by the artist to use an audio sample she already had in her possession and have it synched to the video she was about to make. That decision could have been for any number of reasons -- available time, available budget, an assessment of the acoustic environment of the church, etc. A video and still shoot of the type and quality of this promo involves a lot of concerns that are not musical. Those would include camera angles, lighting, costume, props, and even makeup. In the midst of all those concerns, it might have been difficult to produce the best possible end-to-end running performance of the music.

There is no indication that the artist felt that a Brodmann piano was insufficient to the task. If she had any negative predisposition toward Brodmann pianos, I doubt she would have agreed to the terms of the project.



_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1986123 - 11/13/12 11:45 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
While Tur's above comments are more than fair and seem to reflect [part of..] the truth, as Brodmann dealer I am disappointed that the makers' name was tangled up in such scenario.

IMHO it doesn't do anybody any good, including the artist, to publish something that "isn't"

It undermines the trust, and to some degree the "joy" people have when watching such videos.

God knows, next time it shows a Steinway but was actually recorded on a Brodmann....

Norbert cry wink


Edited by Norbert (11/13/12 11:46 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1986371 - 11/13/12 10:13 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: GoodS]
chen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 177
Loc: yichang city china mainland
yes ,from the surface into the core,will more tight and tight ,surface will let you feel soft or loose ,core is very tight
_________________________
http://www.parsonsmusic.com/ www.kawaiyc.com http://www.yangtzeriver-pianos.com/

We produce and sell KAWAI Yangtzeriver Wilh.Steinberg Ronisch Brodmann Schonbrunn

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#1986750 - 11/14/12 07:11 PM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Norbert]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7222
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
While Tur's above comments are more than fair and seem to reflect [part of..] the truth, as Brodmann dealer I am disappointed that the makers' name was tangled up in such scenario.



Norbeert,

Sorry to read that you're down in the dumps.

Well yeah,. "More than fair" is probably accurate, and "tangled up" is a good choice of terms...like when you're walking down the straight and narrow and some creeping ivy grows out of nowhere to trip you up. grin But what are you going to do? The only way to get past the known facts [the truth in part] is to ......

1) follor the money

2) apply the Nixon Doctrine Acid-Test investigating what X, Y, and Z knew and when they knew it

Maybe you could hire Schwammerl to snif the trail and do some disntangling, but he's probably feeing disillusioned and world-weary too. Or you could write a fervent fan letter to Fedorova telling her how much you loved that performance and asking what piano it was actually played on.

Another more serious thought would be to personally encourage the Brodmann people to pull the promo from their site. You've been representing them since early on and you might have some sway. If they pulled it, would that lift your spirits?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1986947 - 11/15/12 03:27 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Tur:

Brodmann was tangled up in this without any of their own knowledge or fault. Still, this is not a good situation reflected by the word "disappointed"

These days we're only selling few Brodmanns here and there.
The pianos are not the easiest ones to get and we never have enough stock for people breaking down the door.
The ones we do move simply sell by musical appeal and price point.
This is where the pianos remain [in my honest opinion..] one of the most attractive options on market.
At no time has anybody ever bought a Brodmann [ at least from us and to best of my knowledge..] because of some odd YouTube video. Be that one real - or 'not'
If anybody actually has and then found out piano sounds and performs entirely different at home, glad to refund any dollar or cent.
Office tel 604-951-8642

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (11/15/12 03:39 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1986988 - 11/15/12 08:18 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Babyloneden]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8567
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
If anybody actually has and then found out piano sounds and performs entirely different at home, glad to refund any dollar or cent.
Office tel 604-951-8642

Norbert smile

I thought there was a sign in your store that said “All sales final”? smile

Just kidding, Norbert.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1987000 - 11/15/12 09:30 AM Re: Pearl River/Perzina/Kawai which is better? [Re: Norbert]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7222
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Tur:

Brodmann was tangled up in this without any of their own knowledge or fault. Still, this is not a good situation reflected by the word "disappointed"
Norbert smile


Even if the entanglement is innocent and the Brodmann company made the decision to publicize the video because important information was withheld from them by their own Polish distributor, I would think that you might encourage the Brodmann company to pull the video and thereby free themselves from the entanglement. Are you saying that you would not encourage that? I don't think it should be a question of how many Brodmanns you sell, how difficult it is to get stock, how important the brand is now to your business model, or how appealing the pianos are. The appeal of the insturments at their price point is undeniable IMO, but as usual, it's the people who get in the way.

So, to make it simple, would you or would you not encourage the Brodmann company to pull the video?



Originally Posted By: Norbert
At no time has anybody ever bought a Brodmann [ at least from us and to best of my knowledge..] because of some odd YouTube video. Be that one real - or 'not'


Now it's "some odd Youbtbue video" unlikely to influence anyone, but here is the way you deposited it into this thread...

Originally Posted By: Norbert

Here's one of your company's other finest: almost fainted when I found recently same model in my Alma Mater, Erlangen Germany...



Norbert smile
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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