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#1986004 - 11/13/12 05:01 AM Roland muffled sound
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 172
Hi! I bought a Roland HP-305 1 year ago and I'm happy with it. I chose it because I liked the action (although it's a bit light) and I loved the dynamic expression range, resonance, decay, etc. of Supernatural engine.

But there is something I can't really understand. Why the speakers produce that muffled, dull sound? It's true that Roland sound isn't by default as bright as Yamaha or kawai but with headphones the sound is brighter than from speakers. But playing with speakers I have a better playing sensation (despite the muffleness). And outside the player perspective I thing the sound is a bit better.

Do you have any thoughts about this? Must Roland use another brand speakers? Thanks!

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#1986012 - 11/13/12 05:27 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I had the HP-307 for a little while. The sound through speakers really lacked clarity. It sounded fantastic from across the room or even from another room but for the player the experience was quite poor. Disappointing given that it was Roland's flagship console digital at the time.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1986017 - 11/13/12 05:44 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
pv88 Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
@CarloPiano,

I recommend trying the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers with subwoofer:

Try adding another set of speakers (with a subwoofer) to your piano and keep them small so you can set two of them on top of the cabinet (left and right) as the subwoofer can go under the piano to the left side of the pedals which will resonate into the bass end side of the keyboard.

These are not the cheap computer-style speakers you find with many desktop computer systems, they are high quality satellites with real tweeter horns and midrange speakers and have excellent clarity and range. Combined with the powerful subwoofer the total output is 200 watts, with 70 watts in the two satellites (at 35 watts each) and 130 watts for the subwoofer.

I use the following Klipsch speakers and subwoofer with the V-Piano:

http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers

And, they cost only $150 (US) ... a very good value.

Your piano will no longer sound muffled, too!

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#1986044 - 11/13/12 08:19 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
As per pv88, I wonder what it sounds like to you using external speakers? There is a difference in tone, brightness and clarity between Yamaha, Kawai and Roland, so it's either that or just poor speakers and enclosure in the Roland.


Edited by spanishbuddha (11/13/12 08:23 AM)

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#1986146 - 11/13/12 12:11 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
On my HP-505, which I expect to be almost like your 307 (according to technical data), I always change the sound settings for Ambience and Brilliance, depending if practicing with headphones, or playing with the speaker system. And additionally I change from time to time according to my daily feelings the "Soundboard" parameter, which in my words could also be called the 'Attack'. For this one I give you the setting as I statistically use it most of the time.

Headphones (Beyerdynamics DT 411):
no "brilliance"
no "Ambience"
Soundboard usually 10

Speakers (HP-505):
Ambience=1
Brilliance=10
Soundboard usually 5

You can see, that I maximize the brilliance for the speaker system, but keep the attack reduced. I am then very happy with this settings!
I am still very unsure about how I want the Damper Resonance parameter set. I like the subtle extra 'reverb' which it adds to the sound, but I don´t like the clarity I loose.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1986635 - 11/14/12 12:33 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
Man of La Mancha Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 2
In my experience with SN, there seems to be an optimal volume level that produces great sound (this may have to do with the built-in speakers). If I lower volume below this optimal level, it is not just the volume that gets lower but sound quality also degrades somewhat...muffled as you said. If the volume gets too loud, then it starts sounding like...digital.


Edited by Man of La Mancha (11/14/12 12:37 PM)

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#1986638 - 11/14/12 12:40 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
Yes, much of it relates to the internal speakers. Try external ones. BIG improvement.

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#1986682 - 11/14/12 03:13 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: Man of La Mancha]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
I completley agree to what Man of La Mancha has said, I observe the same.
And I made the test after reading the HP-series threads of the last days. Yes, it sounds better if you are somewhere in the room than sitting right in front of it, if letting the DP recorder play at lower volumes.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1987519 - 11/16/12 03:28 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: Marco M]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
I confirm above statements. The external speaker sound of HP505 is poor, at least for the person in front of the keys. Roland would do better to place the speakers in front of the piano. For the middle domain there is more a diffuse, none controlled muffled sound. If there is a cavity behind the piano, this sound can becomes easily boomy. I bought the piano for the sound using headphones and I was conscious if I would ones like to play any piano of the HP series w/o headphones, I have to buy new monitors. Therefore my decision was for the HP505 which is the cheapest piano with a premier action, that saves me money for a later point to substitute the internal speakers.

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#1987627 - 11/16/12 09:13 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: pv88]
pianoismydream Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: pv88
@CarloPiano,

I recommend trying the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers with subwoofer:

Try adding another set of speakers (with a subwoofer) to your piano and keep them small so you can set two of them on top of the cabinet (left and right) as the subwoofer can go under the piano to the left side of the pedals which will resonate into the bass end side of the keyboard.

These are not the cheap computer-style speakers you find with many desktop computer systems, they are high quality satellites with real tweeter horns and midrange speakers and have excellent clarity and range. Combined with the powerful subwoofer the total output is 200 watts, with 70 watts in the two satellites (at 35 watts each) and 130 watts for the subwoofer.

I use the following Klipsch speakers and subwoofer with the V-Piano:

http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers

And, they cost only $150 (US) ... a very good value.

Your piano will no longer sound muffled, too!


Hi pv88, can you compare the sound of ProMedia 2.1 with your CA95 sound? I heard CA95 has really wonderful speaker system and people feel very good in front of it. Can ProMedia 2.1 be close to it? Btw, are you using LINE-OUT or headphone port to connect with your ProMedia 2.1? Thanks.

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#1987645 - 11/16/12 10:46 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: pianoismydream]
pv88 Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
@pianoismydream,

Overall, I would say that the CA95's speakers/soundboard give more realism to the sounds than the Klipsch speakers with the V-Piano, and, the CA95's speakers also add a lot of natural vibration to the keys while playing. The subwoofer with the Klipsch speakers causes vibrations too, but they are not quite as realistic as the CA95's soundboard. I would say that the Klipsch speakers tend to sound better at lower volume levels and I have them sitting directly on top of the V-Piano for the best results. I have placed the subwoofer to the far left side of the pedals (against the stand) under the piano, so that it might give off some vibrations to to the bass end of the keyboard. Speaker placement is always relative to how the player wants to perceive the sounds.

As for setup, the Klipsch speakers uses a cable that plugs into the headphone jack on the V-Piano.

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#1995769 - 12/07/12 04:37 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 172
Thank you everyone for your thoughts smile

I remember someone linked at this forum a video of a pianist from Roland comparing a Yamaha CLP 480 to a Roland HP-507. She played Debusy's Arabesque no. 2 on both. She said Roland was far more expressive. I generally agreed with her, she could do better dynamics. But what she didn't say is that the Yamaha sounded right (not great, it was a home camera or cell phone recording, for sure it wasn't professional), you couldn't be fouled by confusing it with a real piano but it was bright and ok. But the Roland, while nice in tone, was completely muffled. I think it's a shame Roland hasn't corrected this. Yes, I think it's not a brand sign of identity, it's a design error, they made a new series of HP piano and the error persists!

BTW, the video I tell about doesn't exist anymore. Pity! frown It was very educational.

Talking about another thing, from the videos I watched, the V-Piano Grand sounds great, not muffled at all. But it's price tag is absolutely unreachable for me. Maybe Roland doesn't correct this problem because they want to distinguish between their 1000-3000€ models and their 10000+ model?

To "fight" against this muffled sound my HP.305 has I use Grand Piano 3 tone. It's brighter. I don't like to tweak brilliance settings as it doesn't solve completely the problem and it adds, in my opinion, new ones such as a too harsh sound difficult to control but thanks for the suggestion.

@Pv88, thanks for your recommendation. I will have it in account for sure. Not now as I cannot play with a very high volume (neighbours...) but thank you anyway.

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#1995931 - 12/07/12 12:05 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
I enjoyed reading all this; there was this Roland something or other in our local piano store. And it was muffled to me, nor was it cheap. The lady in the shop said it sounded more like an acoustic than the others. Next door were the acoustics.

They were muffled - heavy mid range. Needed sparkle . . . ! Darned glad I`ve got a digital. Maybe I need some sparkle . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#1995933 - 12/07/12 12:06 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: peterws]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5547
Originally Posted By: peterws
I enjoyed reading all this; there was this Roland something or other in our local piano store. And it was muffled to me, nor was it cheap. The lady in the shop said it sounded more like an acoustic than the others. Next door were the acoustics.

They were muffled - heavy mid range. Needed sparkle . . . ! Darned glad I`ve got a digital. Maybe I need some sparkle . .


Methinks we all need to play on real pianos a lot, lot more... grin
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#1995997 - 12/07/12 02:09 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: peterws]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: peterws
And it was muffled to me, nor was it cheap. The lady in the shop said it sounded more like an acoustic than the others.


That's true! My HP-305 sounds impressive and very realistic from a certain distance (not from the player place). It sounds almost like a high quality piano (a Steinway, Bluthner, Bössendorfer or alike), better than any Yamaha (IMHO). I think the bass and the treble are specially amazing. But from the player perspective, while not bad, its a bit plastic frown

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#1996268 - 12/08/12 06:14 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
New NewB Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 18
This is total B.S.! I'm getting pissed...

Something this expensive should have speakers that sound accurate relative to how the manufacturer wants the piano to sound. Are some of you implying that when the manufacturer develops a model and plays a prototype and hears it through the speakers, they say "that's good enough, if the buyer wants better s/he can use headphones or buy speakers"?

Compared to the piano and its components, speakers aren't that expensive. There is no reason why the buyer should have to buy additional equipment to improve the sound of a piano at this level. We're not talking $500, 1000, or even $2000 pianos here. 3000 friggin bucks and you have to buy speakers? Bull$#!t.

There is no friggin' way that, after dropping $3000+ on a piano, I have any inclination to go buy equipment for it. In fact, I won't have any money for more equipment. If I do get it before Christmas, my kids will be lucky to have more than coal in their stockings. Crap, I don't even know where to get coal around here in environmentally safe anti-fracking New England (as it should be environmentally safe and anti-fracking). So, it'll be an apple or orange in the toe of the stocking, some school supplies, staff paper (oh, wait, this is a digital piano... does that make staff paper and pencils obsolete?), and maybe an issue of Mad Magazine or Skiing magazine.

But, I digress (up late/up early cuz I'm sick, feel like crap and can't sleep... I digress again), I will not believe for a second that a $3000 piano would have substandard speakers. Please tell me this thread is about the buyer's preference and perhaps being overly meticulous.


Edited by New NewB (12/08/12 06:19 AM)

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#1996282 - 12/08/12 07:14 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
Your belief-second has expired! smile

Now ... a $3000 piano has crappy speakers. That't that. They ALL do.

To get good sound you need good drivers in a good enclosure.
A digital piano makes a TERRIBLE enclosure. (Have you EVER seen a decent speaker in a configuration that resembles that of a digital piano? Never!)

So regardless of the driver quality, the results will be mediocre.

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#1996319 - 12/08/12 09:24 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
They're not all mediocre. The top end Yamaha Clavinovas with iAFC are very good indeed in my opinion. Most people seem to rate the Kawai CA93/95. Some of the Rolands have an issue with how they sound from the player's perspective - I certainly agree they sound muffled and lack clarity to the player. That was my experience anyway. But to condemn them all is unreasonable. I think if you spend the $3000 it is reasonable to expect something good. Not state-of-the-art obviously, but good.

I also agree that in principle it is crazy to have to consider adding amps/speakers to an above average console DP from one of the major manufacturers.

And finally, by default acoustic pianos do not sound muffled, not to my ears anyway - Roland is not imitating real life by making their DPs sound muffled.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1996321 - 12/08/12 09:27 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: New NewB]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 127
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: New NewB
This is total B.S.! I'm getting pissed...

Something this expensive should have speakers that sound accurate relative to how the manufacturer wants the piano to sound. Are some of you implying that when the manufacturer develops a model and plays a prototype and hears it through the speakers, they say "that's good enough, if the buyer wants better s/he can use headphones or buy speakers"?

Compared to the piano and its components, speakers aren't that expensive. There is no reason why the buyer should have to buy additional equipment to improve the sound of a piano at this level.


Speakers are in fact expensive, and good hi-fi speakers can cost thousands of dollars themselves.
The sound of a digital piano is different from those of acoustic - then you are playing acoustics, hammers hit the strings and the sound is coming from different places all over the piano, depending on which string was hit, while a digital piano has three-amplified system at the best (except may be the most expensive grand-like pianos).
So the sound of acoustic piano from player perspective is relatively hard to imitate using 2-4-6 speakers, while a piano sounds really good from other places.

Roland made improvements on its HP 5xx series adding the Sound Projection System from its V-piano. It is designed to imitate sound coming from there the key was hit.

It is still not ideal, but in fact HP-505 sounds much better with its speakers than previous higher model HP-307, although 307 is a little bit crispier and sounds slightly better through headphones. Initially making choice between these two models, I was more inclined to buy 505 model due to its speaker system, but finally decided for 507.

All digitals I've heard sounded better through headphones, it is not something about Roland.

About my HP-507 model, it should not be probably put very close to the wall, there should be a little space behind it, then it sounds OK for me.


Edited by personne (12/08/12 09:35 AM)
_________________________
Roland HP-507RW | Yamaha U1

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#1996400 - 12/08/12 12:59 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
Good rant, but as Mac says you missed the point. Or rather the inherent difficulty the designer has with the shape of a DP. I also find the HP50x sound missing something, but that may be personal preference.

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#1996462 - 12/08/12 03:26 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
Taylorius Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 44
I totally agree with New NewB


During my recent "investigation" into DPs, I tried some Rolands, and they were all muffled. Not the V-piano, but several HP-50x models. As I've mentioned on here before, they sound like I'm listening to them from the next room.

The assistant said they were optimised for listening from further away. Whatever that means. Maybe I ought to get my arms stretched like THIS guy. "I wonder where, that Roland midrange has gone?"

I've also heard it said that people are a bit naive to expect decent quality sound output for $3000. Speakers are expensive etc. I'm sure this is true, but if this is the reason, then how do Kawai manage it? Their CA95 sound is absolutely brilliant, on a similarly priced instrument.

There shouldn't be a need, given $3000 spent on a new digital piano, to need more equipment in order to make it sound right for the person playing it. I just can't see it.

Matt

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#1996557 - 12/08/12 07:08 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: Taylorius]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 127
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Taylorius
There shouldn't be a need, given $3000 spent on a new digital piano, to need more equipment in order to make it sound right for the person playing it.


For me Roland does not sound muffled, but it can be boomy if staying close to the wall in the room with wrong resonance.

I do not understand how cheap speakers can improve the sound of a digital piano.
_________________________
Roland HP-507RW | Yamaha U1

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#1996596 - 12/08/12 08:58 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The quality of the speakers isn't necessarily the problem. It's more their position, and the fact that speakers in most DP face downward, towards the floor. Even the finest monitor speakers will sound muffled if you angle the output at the floor.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1996625 - 12/08/12 10:29 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
Yes, it sucks that you need to add external speakers to a $3000 piano. But that's just the way it is.
A piano slab-box with a pair of speakers like this ...

... cannot produce sound that compares to speakers like this:


We just just have to live with it.

BTW, I bought those speakers (and stands, not shown) and an A/V receiver to drive them, all used on Craig's List ... for $197. A pittance when added to a $3000 piano.

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#1996896 - 12/09/12 11:56 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: bennevis]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
You know, if you listen to acoustic pianos on youtube played by competent players (some are very young; they all have Steinways or better) they sound terrible. Now that`s in a room, playing live. But when they`re recorded they sound soooo much better. Almost as good as a digital. I do not want an acoustic. Not now, not ever!! . . .


Edited by peterws (12/09/12 11:57 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#1996950 - 12/09/12 02:15 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: peterws]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: peterws
You know, if you listen to acoustic pianos on youtube played by competent players (some are very young; they all have Steinways or better) they sound terrible. Now that`s in a room, playing live. But when they`re recorded they sound soooo much better. Almost as good as a digital. I do not want an acoustic. Not now, not ever!! . . .


Your post makes no sense. First you say that the recordings sound "terrible", then you say that "when they're recorded they sound soooo (sic) much better".

What's your point?
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1997377 - 12/10/12 01:41 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: Melodialworks Music]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
Sorry. I explained that badly. The aforementioned live recordings were in rooms, concert halls, in front (usually) of people listening and the recording would be basic. The second case is where CDs or professionally recorded stuff is played of the same music employing people of the same calibre. There is an unexpectedly huge difference which I would not attribute entirely to the recording quality, but to the tuning of the instrument in use; perhaps also the acoustics.

Does that make a bit more sense?
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#1997436 - 12/10/12 04:26 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What category would you put this in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5LRRsNYZk

(Live recording in a concert hall "in front of people listening").

If you just mean pianos recorded on mobile phones and camcorders sound shite, then of course they do. Everything sounds shite in those circumstances.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1997528 - 12/10/12 07:14 PM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1861
Loc: Portugal
Microphone placement makes an enormous difference. Then, much less usually, the quality of the microphone. Then, less still, the quality of the recording equipment. And of course, the matter of someone knowing what they're doing making the recording. But mostly it comes down to microphone placement.

I think that's what peterws is hearing, as well as the mediocre quality of the maintenance of the piano being played.....that makes an enormous difference too.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1999785 - 12/15/12 11:38 AM Re: Roland muffled sound [Re: CarloPiano]
Taylorius Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 44
I went to Harrods a couple of days ago, to try out their Roland LX15 and HP-507. I have looked at them already, but I wanted to check that the muffled sound I experienced in the first store, wasn't random bad luck.I can confirm that these were also muffled, so its safe to say this is how they were designed.

However, I did notice something else interesting. When I play a digital piano in a shop, I tend not to turn it's volume up above half way. However, this time I did turn the volume up to full, and hey presto, the treble and midrange were all there, and it did sound really nice (albeit a bit too loud for comfort, in a shop). However, with the volume back down to half way, it was extreme mufflage again.

This seems odd, I haven't noticed the tone changing so significantly with volume on other makes of piano. However, on the LX15 and HP507, with the volume up to the top, I thought the sound was miles, miles better, and in fact would make them a real temptation, if the sound wasn't so muffled at lower volumes.

Anyone have any ideas why this might be the case? I wonder if anything could be done about it?

Cheers

Matt

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Need help picking a Beethoven Piano Sonata Slow movement
by oaklandraiders76
12/20/14 04:50 PM
What are some great ways to learn the blues?
by brucepiano
12/20/14 04:37 PM
Do you recommend a back cover on upright with Dampp-Chaser?
by thestar
12/20/14 03:56 PM
kawai model SA-8E upright
by EthanHawaii
12/20/14 02:28 PM
Piano Felt
by Modern Conner
12/20/14 01:37 PM
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