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Hi all,

I'm wondering how many complete pieces can you play by heart right now that are at a performance level (not professional but to a standard that represents the best you can do.) For example if someone asks you to play something on the piano, then you play a piece and he asks for more... how long can you continue.

I'm asking because i have to admit there is some time i can't play anything at all. For example right now i've been working on Chopin's Op. 27 no.1 for like 5 weeks. I'm on the polishing phase meaning i got all the notes down and tempo roughly at speed but i would not say i can play it well therefore i wouldn't play that if someone would ask me. Other than that i have 1 piece i can play well and another that is so so (due to not playing it often). Basically my repertoire is 1 piece and a half lol... sad isnt it?


In the last year and a half here is what i've learned and that i could play at a decent level:

Debussy - Arabesque no.1
Chopin - Raindrop prélude
Chopin - Waltz Op.64 no 2
Chopin - Nocturne Op.72 no 1
Chopin - Nocturne Op. 27 no 2 (95% of it, except the "cadenza" i couldn't get up to speed)
Chopin - Waltz Op. 69 no 2
Chopin - Waltz in A minor (posth)
Beethoven - 2nd movement of a sonata i cant remember the op no.
Liszt - Consolation no.3
Mendelssohn - Song without words Op.30 no.1

What i can play today is the Mendelssohn and the A minor waltz that's it. Rest is forgotten. You'ld give me the sheet music and i wouldnt be able to play em as i forgot the fingering and there is no way i can sightread pieces that hard (to me). Is this normal? I mean, maybe its my way to learn that is wrong? What is your trick to remember alot of pieces? Share with me please? I feel all that work is gone to waste lol.

If they are too hard for you to sight-read (as in, prima vista or even sight-read over and over slowly), they are probably too hard for you to play. This could be why it's hard for you to memorize these pieces, in part.

Have you worked on shorter pieces? How long have you been playing? How much theory would you say you know? Technique? Sight-reading in general?

We'd need to know more about your background before any specific advice could really be given.

My teacher always makes it a point to tell me to go back and repeat/review. I would suggest you take a percentage of your practice time to revisit your previous accomplishments.

Mainly the reason i can't sightread the pieces is because i never really focused on sight reading. A teacher I was with recently point out to me it was seriously lacking and made me practice a litte but there is alot of catching up to do.

I dont have problem memorizing pieces at all, im quite good at it actually. Everything piece i learned is memorized by the time its done and i dont have to put actual efforts into it, it just happens in the process. What im telling is im forgetting it!!!

As for your questions well: I think they're all pretty short pieces... I've been playing for quite a while casually, lets sum it up to maybe 4-5 years? (spread across 20 years with breaks here and there). As far as theory goes, i think i know everything I need to know. Maybe my knowledge of harmony isn't as good as it should be but i know the basics. Technique is decent and sightreading in general is poor as i already told.

Its what i do (i think we all are) but it seems as time goes by you tend to forget that one note here and there as you work on other stuff.

And sometimes you don't have enough practice time in front of you and you just focus on the new stuff 3-4 days in a row then your away from the piano for 3 more days and BAM you forgot that one little passage. Not saying i dont remember how the piece sounds, its just my fingers just dont know where to go anymore precisely (failing muscle memory sums it up pretty well i think).

I'm less asking for advices than wanting to know how many pieces YOU are able to play when someone asks you? 2..5..15? If someones knows 10-15 pieces it takes alot of time to review doesnt it?

You don't review them all every day. You choose one or two to review every day, or whatever the case may be.

Also, I doubt most people here will have a number unless that number is very small. I don't know how many pieces I have memorized. And how would I count them? I know dozens of teaching pieces, but I don't really consider them part of my 'repertoire,' even though they are memorized and up to performance standards.

And for 4-5 years spread over 20 years with poor sight-reading focus, I think the pieces you listed are just too hard for you, which is why they are hard to keep in the fingers and mind.

Hey, kayvee, thanks for the awesome feedback on memorization.

I have learned 70 tiny short tunes - but NOT memorized any.

I am currently close to page 30 of John Thompson's Modern Course First Grade book 18 The Fairies' Harp" -

where the book says, "Here is your first real recital piece.
See if you can learn it well enough to play on the next
program presented by your teacher." (self-taught)

>>> I have heard that memorizing a piece working
>>> badkwards to the start is awesome and works well?

I am pepared to take as long as it takes to memorize it - days, weeks, months -

The question to you, kayvee, - or anyone kind enough to answer, please, is:

Q Should I try the regular way of learning the piece by learning a few measures at a time from the start to the end? Yes or No.

Or:

Q Should I try working backwards to the start of the piece? Yes or No.

Thanks for any comments.

Michael_99,

1) Don't memorize the piece just because the book tells you to do so. This is two part:
a- Memorize music you love! Don't memorize something someone tells you to; you want to learn the music for yourself. So, memorize songs you enjoy (even if they aren't necessarily piano major/recital worthy)
b- There are much better methods than John Thompson. I'm not sure if you'd want to stick with it forever, especially if you've already learned 50-some other pieces. There are other method books and also repertoire collections out there.

2) Everyone has their own technique and style of learning a piece as well as memorizing one. I think the best is to do both. Work on the piece from the beginning to end, or somewhere in the middle, or at the end - typically, start with the hardest part of the piece. Definitely do a few measures at a time. Be able to start a piece from multiple places (not just at the beginning or at the start of a new section).

There really isn't one answer. If there were, everyone would be an amazing player with hundreds of pieces memorized forever. It takes time, and attention to theory and consciously trying to memorize a piece (by thinking about it, analyzing it, etc).

Right now, I couldn't play anything at performance level if you asked me to. (For me, performance level means professional.) However, if one did not mind the occasional flubbed note, I could probably get through:

1 complete Mozart sonata
3-4 Mozart sonata movements (separate from above)
2 complete Beethoven sonatas
2-3 Beethoven sonata movements (separate from above)
1 Chopin Nocturne
2 Chopin Polonaises
2 Chopin Preludes
1 Chopin Scherzo
3 Rachmaninoff preludes
1 Schubert Impromptu
1 Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody
2-3 Liszt Etudes (Paganini and Transcendental)
5-7 encores (ranging from Lecuona's Malaguena to Horowitz's Stars and Stripes transcription, the latter of course probably sounding worse than the former )

In total, 21-24 pieces and an additional 5-7 individual movements of larger works; I would say this represents approximately 2 hours and 40 minutes of music.

Like I said, none of it is performance-ready, but all of it is memorized. Some of the above pieces, I haven't played in 2-3 years, but I know them so well, they would come back with one or two memorized run-throughs (not necessarily to performance caliber, but at least to playable caliber). An example of this is Rachmaninoff's Prelude in G minor (Op 23 No 5). A member here asked for a recording not long ago, and I took a couple run-throughs and played it cold. Not flawlessly, of course, but at least well enough that it was tolerable to listen to.


The biggest mistake I've found beginners make is that they practice something until they play it right. What one should do is practice something until you can't play it wrong. This means the notes are so comfortable and well-ingrained in your hands that even after a time away from the piece, it's still there. If you take a couple weeks off and can no longer play the piece at all, it's probably above your current level. If you take several months or a year away from a piece and can play it flawlessly when you return to it, it's probably beneath your current level.

Much of the memorization for me is memorizing the music, not the notes, and then counting on my knowledge of theory and muscle memory to play correctly. To try and remember over 50,000 individual notes is incredibly difficult. To say that I have done that would probably not be accurate. However, what I could do is mentally play the pieces and work out what the notes should be. In other words, if you asked me to name the notes in Rachmaninoff's prelude (since I used it above), I would have an incredibly difficult time simply remembering G-Bb-D-Bb etc in order. But if I played it in my mind, I would use more than one memorization and recall technique to be able to reconstruct the piece from memory. Don't limit the number of techniques you use to memorize--use them all. It will vastly improve your memory and recall abilities.

Last year I could play a few Grade 3 - Grade 6 pieces by memory up to performance standard (though slipping up sometimes when nervous).

After this first year of my Ad. Dip in Music Performance, I've forgotten how most of them really go. I couldn't play any of them now from start to finish, correctly.

I've been working on my sight-reading for the past two years, and I'm starting to notice myself getting better. I can often read ahead about a bar at this level, recognising patterns more quickly, and soon I'm going to take it up a level.

I value the ability to sight-read much, much more over memorization. This is where my effort's been going, and it's starting to pay dividends.

Not that you should necessarily work on your sight-reading as much as I do (I play at least one piece at my level daily, usually more) -- everyone wants different skills in piano, and sight-reading is just so rewarding for me that I sit down and do it every day, feeling great afterwards.

I figure when I can sight-read really well, those pieces that I can't play anymore will be easy to learn again, and harder pieces will be within my grasp.

(I'm sure having fairly good technique and theory knowledge thanks to my course has helped my sight-reading as well.)

kayvee,

Thanks.

- Love playing all my tunes all the time.
- Will only memorizes something I love.

- >>>>> There are much better methods than John Thompson. I'm not sure if you'd want to stick with it forever, especially if you've already learned 50-some other pieces.
There are other method books and also repertoire collections out there.

I love to play "anything" and "any method" and to be the best that I can. I am trying to get good enough to start to play any classical music.

>>>>>>> So. Please. Recommend ANY method or methods you would recommend - to get me to classical music - the short or long road - I am here to play/learn until I drop dead.


I have the complete books
of these methods: of Leila Fletcher - worked through book 1 done

of John Thompson - started working through
book 1 now
of Michael Aaron -
started working
through book 1 now as extra material
of John W. Schaum
of Suzuki piano school
new internationa edition

Also, note, kayvee, when I listed the method books I have -
when I say recommend any method - I mean any method - excluding these books - I want the best recommendation - forget what I have in my library.
Thanks.

I can't resist when I find a piano... I've to play it... no matter where.

I can play (by memory) up to performance standard, during appr. 2 hours. Some of those were sent to ABF recitals:

Ludovico Einaudi:
- Come un Fiore
- Nefeli
- Tu Sei
- Monday
- Canzone Popolare (1500 ca.) - covered by me
- Dietro L'Incanto
- Password
- Indaco (Royal Albert Hall version)
- The Snow Prelude nº15
- In Principio
- Doce Droga
- I Due Fiumi (plus "La Scala bridge")
- La nascita delle cose segrete
- Julia

And others, like:
- No Holly for Miss Quinn - Enya
- Embers - Helen Jane Long
- And another half-dozen of my own (nothing serious, just for fun ...)

This is a never-ending-story because I'm always polishing all of them and learning new things.

About 5 pieces.

A simplified arrangement of Moonlight sonata (first song I ever learnt)

Lovers Theme by Herve roy, Yes that Lovers theme from two girls one cup.

heck march (red alert theme song) its a very FFF piece.

Simplified turkish march.

Zero.

I'm just starting, but find I forget easily.

I'm trying to improve this by:

1) Going back as suggested above.
2) Once memorized (which comes easily to me as well with sufficient repetition) I need to resist the temptation to stare at my hands. I think if I continue to read the music then my muscle memory will get in synch with my eyes.

I figure that forgetting is inevitable, especially as my repetoire grows. But if I'm as far from prima vista as possible then it will be that much easier to reacquire the piece subsequently.

I'm pretty sure it can only help with prima vista as well. Not looking at the hands and keeping eyes on the music was a big emphasis of my daughter's teacher.

4

Chopsticks
Heart and Soul
Rocky Top
12 Bar Blues

I make no attempt to memorize anything.

All of them

Performance level?

That's the trouble, is in keeping all of them at performance level. The more gung ho I go at new stuff, the more the older stuff needs shaping again.

Could probably entertain the troops for about one hour without repeating. If I brought a list of everything I once knew, perhaps 2 hours, but likely to get more rotten apples heaved in my direction ...

i can relate. It's either all or nothing. I'm going for the nothing. Give me the key or i'll find it. I'll make something out of it. Sometimes we're on a stage, so i guess that counts as "performance."
If i find a stray piano, i may play a three or four chord progression to listen to it's tone. I may play Hotel California. (i love that progression) I like Your Song too. It sounds nice even without the words.

wow this thread is very inspiring! slpianoproject, it's great you can play the Mendelssohn Op. 30 No. 1! That is the one I am learning for the ABF Songs without Words recital sometime in the new year. It is beautiful and I hope I can memorize it. Have you tried any of the other songs without words?

As for the pieces I have memorized, they also happen to be the only pieces I can play through----Rachmaninoff's Prelude 32/12, and Chopin's Ocean and Winter Wind Etudes, although the latter two are *far* from 'performance' ready. However I am determined to hang on to the memorization of these pieces. Winter Wind has been on the backburner lately, but I still play through it every now and again, and work on small parts of the piece occassionally, (the trouble spots) even if I am not playing through the entire piece in a practice session. I don't freak out if there are parts that slip from my memory, I just go back and look at the score. I figure it's all part of learning the piece really well.

Same problem here. I can't play recital pieces from half a year ago even if I have the paper.

But if I go through slow it picks up quickly (about a week I guess).

I have 2 pieces now in memory, 1 on performance level almost in memory, and working on 1 and a little.

I can play a few from score because I play them occasionally.

I think you need to keep working on them if you want to keep them in memory and that takes valuable time...