According to Bloomberg News- 195m

fingers

The 195 covers the land and building. Steinway Musical Instruments only owns the building.

This would be very sad news if Steinway Hall were no more. I enjoyed my visits there so much -- glad I went when I did! (and I was treated very nicely even though I was not there to buy).


Sophia

I guess the question that comes to mind is that buildings proximity to Carnegie Hall is very convenient for artists and transport of pianos from the basement to Carnegie. I wonder if Steinway will lease space to retain that location?

Could it be that, among perhaps more basic economic reasons their location attracted also many buyers to "piano row" who then did end up not buying from them?

They may well be leaving the space, but the sale of the property by itself doesn't necessarily mean that will happen.

Companies frequently continue to occupy all or some space in buildings they dispose of in "sale and leaseback" transactions. Depending on applicable tax and accounting issues, such a deal can end up being financially positive both for buyer and seller.

End of an era. Is this the beginning of the dismantling of Steinway & Sons as we know it?

China is already Steinway's biggest customer. With the Chinese population growing and becoming more prosperous, the demand for Steinways in the East will continue,

NY Steinway is a great instrument, not any less than a Hamburg. We can argue over the differences, but I doubt there is a pianist from anywhere in the world, including China, who wouldn't fall in love with any properly working and tuned Steinway, whether it be form NY or Germany.

... but 100% "made in Germany" still carries its weight around the world.

End of an era. Is this the beginning of the dismantling of Steinway & Sons as we know it? I have a hard time imagining that an Asian owner really cares or even understands what the S&S building, no less S&S itself means to Americans, New Yorkers and American pianists. In addition to the iconic brand, S&S also represents our glimmer of hope that America can still manufacturer a world class product, even in New York City.

If in fact Astoria is only putting out 1,500 pianos a year, things are very dire indeed for this great institution. How long can the factory exist? Having taken the tour of the factory earlier this year and seeing the size and complication of the plant is amazing. And probably amazingly expensive to maintain, especially in Queens. I'm afraid the writing is on the wall that future viewers of "Note By Note" will view it as a quaint historical memoir, instead of a documentary on a contemporary subject.

At least we will have all the Steinway pianos out there as testament of what was, even into the 21st century. That's if any pianos remain here in the United States, as opposed to most of them eventually being gobbled up and sent overseas to China and the Pacific Rim. China is already Steinway's biggest customer. With the Chinese population growing and becoming more prosperous, the demand for Steinways in the East will continue, even with the demise of S&S as we know it. So, it may come a day when a Steinway piano in North America may become as rare as hens' teeth.

This will be a boom to the rebuilders, but probably a big blow to the popularity of piano playing, so in the end, no one winds (except maybe Samick).

So sad and there is nothing we can do to stop the eventuality.

Hello everyone -
There is not too much I can add at this point - other than to say that the announcement as reported by MMR is correct. Please remember that the building was sold once before - but we remained as tenants - and ultimately repurchased the building. The sky didn't fall, and the world did not come to an end. Nor will it this time, should this sale close.

We are certainly committed to the New York market, and will continue to have a major presence there.

As a 31 year Steinway & Sons employee, I can appreciate both sides of this. Steinway Hall is a facility that has been much more than a retail store, that's for sure. Yet if we step back and look at this objectively, it is not unreasonable for a company to look at all the factors involved in such a decision - then make the decision that they believe to ultimately be in the company's best interest. In fact, it would be irresponsible NOT to do so.

Lastly, and in response to the comments above that suggest this decision is indicative that Steinway is on the way out: nothing could be further from the truth. We've been around a long time - and have weathered many storms (including the very recent and literal storm). As far as whether this is the beginning of "the dismantling of Steinway & Sons": absolutely not! Our factory remains very busy, and our company continues to be profitable. the number of retail stores we now own is much higher than was the case 10 years ago. This has to do with one specific (an incredibly well known) retail location. It by no means suggests anything beyond that as to the overall future of Steinway & Sons - other than that our commitment to remain and thrive has not changed. Consider New York just for one last minute: 20 years ago, we had one major location. Today, we have four.

Our commitment to the New York retail market has grown; it has not diminished, nor will it.

I appreciate the fact that so many care about this. Thank you.

Completely idle speculation which seems to be totally or at least largely false based on on Bob Snyder's post.

Those familiar with Steinway's history know there have been many ups and downs with some of those difficult periods probably far worse than the present one. I don't understand why some seem so eager to be the bearers of doom.

[/quote] My guess is the the real estate value of Steinway Hall exceeded the advantages Steinway could realize staying in that location.

As the man says, "past performance is no indication of future results." The past machinations of S&S was when it was either a family owned company, or an American owned company. Times are different. S&S is controlled by a corporation with a different ethos than traditional values of American companies. Not to put Samick down (I really know little about them) but the days when S&S ran the business like a family are over. I cannot imagine that the current owners have any real commitment to New York, the United States, or American workers for that matter. Like most large businesses these days there are purely profit driven, focusing on short term profit goals, not long term goals. why would Samick keep Astoria going, if the majority of their customers are 8,000-10,000 miles away with strict import duties? Just makes total business sense to move production to China. At least at some point in the future. This is not what I hope for, but obviously you and I have no say in this, it is just seems the logical expectation from a country that is based in the Far East.

Does anyone dispute that the vast majority of pianos sales over the next 50 years will be in China and the Far East?

Can the Western Hemisphere support the Astoria factory? Can Astoria be profitable? Seems like a behemoth from an earlier era.

I believe that unless S&S is able to manufacture goods in Astoria that can be sold to a greater portion of the American buying public, it has to be on borrowed time, at best. I suggest that S&S use the Astoria factory to manufacture goods which is accessible to more American consumers. Maybe accessories for pianos (benches, music cabinets, lighting) or even market piano related paraphernalia such as artwork, collectibles, and memorabilia. I mean, they can even make artwork out of mounted action parts. Jewelry out of piano components. Things that a Steinway aficionado would purchase.

I presume that a large majority of US S&S sales are to institutions, not individuals. Steinway needs to offer American made products for the general consumer. $60,000-$130,000 sales are great, but in between those sales, there is nothing wrong with selling some lower ticket items (as they do with parts sales). Anything that does not diminish the prestige of the brand, while at the same time utilizing more of the factory and workers in Astoria.

I see the fact that your first lengthy post was shown to be mostly/entirely incorrect hasn't discouraged you from further idle speculation.

and to my knowledge, Samick does not have controlling ownership of Steinway.

Can Astoria be profitable?

I hope my prognostications are not true, but only time will tell. I suggest that unless you tour the factory and see what actually is going on there, it is impossible to gauge the under utilization of a very large manufacturing plant. I think at one time the factory had many, many more workers then they do now.

Here are some facts:

1 Steinway Place, Astoria is actually owned by the New York City Industrial Development Agency. S&S has the property in a PILOT Program (Payment in Lieu of Taxes), a form of industrial incentive for NYC manufactures. The assessed value of the property is $25,500,000.00. To mitigate the real estate taxes on the property, the deed to the property has been transferred to the NYCIDA, which is tax exempt. Without the PILOT program, the annual real estate tax bill of the plant would be $2.5 million. Under the PILOT program, it is reduced to $250.000.00. Under the normal terms of a PILOT, at the end of the PILOT, the deed to the property reverts back to the original owner.

Under the terms of the PILOT that S&S has agreed to, there were supposed to retain 616 jobs, and create 89 new jobs. As per the 2012 annual report, they only show 383 jobs, a net loss of 233 jobs. The PILOT went into effect 1999, and is scheduled to expire in 2026. However, if they do not maintain the jobs they agreed to, they could lose the PILOT deal, which would result in their real estate taxes going up ten fold.

To see this information, go to:

http://www.nycedc.com/sites/default/files/filemanager/Compliance/IDA/FY2012_Annual_Report_IDA.pdf

and navigate to page 451.

If S&S continues to reduce their payroll, they face the good chance that they would lose their PILOT. If that happens, I bet dollars to donuts that they are out of there!

Does anyone know actually how many people are currently employed at S&S in NYC?

Pinaoloverus, I don't think I have a monopoly of making predictions on here. I didn't know I needed your permission to express an opinion on here - my bad.