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#1986885 - 11/14/12 10:46 PM Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean?
Vas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 47
I am going to embarrass myself by showing my ignorance.

Here it goes: Crotchet, is this a stunted, very brief, flat, muffled, stifled, thump or brief note? It almost sound like and accident but I like the briefness. It seems it is a note with mostly attack and little or no decay and no sustain. Is this attained by the foot pedal? Did I get the definition wrong? In any case can someone clue me in on what is a stunted, very brief, flat, muffled, stifled, thump or brief note called. This is not heard often on a piano recital but find it pleasant.

I found it here: http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/samples/steinwayconcertgrand/compare.php “true Crotchet”.

Comments?

By the Way I love Imperfect Samples' Steinway & Sons 1908 Walnut Concert Grand.

PS. Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum.

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#1986909 - 11/15/12 12:30 AM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6092
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
A crotchet is a quarter note. I am not sure what it is on that website though.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1986922 - 11/15/12 01:41 AM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6063
Loc: St. Louis area
I once crotcheted a rug.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1986929 - 11/15/12 02:00 AM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The word "true crotchet" is not really something we would discuss in musical terms, it's more of a technological description for a sampled piano. I believe what it is describing is a group of samples based on the length of a crotchet beat. On a real piano, if you play normal crochets, you release the key just before each new crotchet which briefly activates the damper. If a sampler does this, it will sound more realistic than if there are only long samples which are cut short and re-triggered each time a crotchet is played. Without "true crotchets" you wouldn't hear the sound of the dampers in between, which is a slight detachment.

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#1987098 - 11/15/12 01:35 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
Vas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 47
Hello,

Looks like I am getting special help form the Piano World elite. Thanks for your input.

So a quartet note is identical to a crotchet or just similar?
In Cubase I tried very short midi notes of sampled pianos but did not achieve the effect I describe herein.

The sound I am referring to which I occasionally hear from a piano recital reminds me of a percussive sound. As stated earlier a stunted, very brief, flat, muffled, stifled, thump. So again does this have a name? Is the quarter note/crotchet? An audio example would be extremely helpful.

I do not at present have a keyboard to check anything out on my own. Looking a the Roland RD700NX or the RD700GX but may settle on a midi keyboard controller.

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#1987133 - 11/15/12 03:13 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6092
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Crotchet is the British term for quarter note, so, yes, they are exactly the same. smile
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1987134 - 11/15/12 03:21 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17825
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Vas
[...]
The sound I am referring to which I occasionally hear from a piano recital reminds me of a percussive sound. As stated earlier a stunted, very brief, flat, muffled, stifled, thump. So again does this have a name? Is the quarter note/crotchet? An audio example would be extremely helpful.
[...]


You may be referring to a note that is to be played "staccato." That is a term applied to notes that are played (from the Dolmetsch on-line music dictionary)

Staccato (French m. from the Italian staccato) detached, jerky
staccato (s.), staccati (pl.) (Italian) detached, jerky (for example, [...] manner of playing a musical line), separato (Italian), abgestoßen (German), gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French)

There are, of course, varying degrees of staccato from lightly detached without emphasis to sharply detached and strongly accented. I would hesitate to use the work "jerky" when talking about staccato playing, as, more often than not, a phrase with staccato notes is played as regularly as any other phrase, while "jerky" implies - to me - an irregular rhythm.

I'm not sure what this has to do with crotchet, however. As others have mentioned, in many English-speaking countries "crotchet" is the same as "quarter-note."

I did find, on the same Dolmetsch site the following for "crotchet" :

Crotchet : on early pedal harps, small metal Ls which are drawn by the action towards the neck to shorten the sounding length of the harp

so, in the context of the web-site you linked, it may indeed have something to do with the duration of a sampled note.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1987137 - 11/15/12 03:35 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6092
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
That website you linked to also has "true staccato", but it doesn't seem to have any samples of it.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1987467 - 11/16/12 01:02 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: BruceD]
Vas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 47
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Vas
[...]
The sound I am referring to which I occasionally hear from a piano recital reminds me of a percussive sound. As stated earlier a stunted, very brief, flat, muffled, stifled, thump. So again does this have a name? Is the quarter note/crotchet? An audio example would be extremely helpful.
[...]


You may be referring to a note that is to be played "staccato." That is a term applied to notes that are played (from the Dolmetsch on-line music dictionary)

Staccato (French m. from the Italian staccato) detached, jerky
staccato (s.), staccati (pl.) (Italian) detached, jerky (for example, [...] manner of playing a musical line), separato (Italian), abgestoßen (German), gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French)

There are, of course, varying degrees of staccato from lightly detached without emphasis to sharply detached and strongly accented. I would hesitate to use the work "jerky" when talking about staccato playing, as, more often than not, a phrase with staccato notes is played as regularly as any other phrase, while "jerky" implies - to me - an irregular rhythm.

I'm not sure what this has to do with crotchet, however. As others have mentioned, in many English-speaking countries "crotchet" is the same as "quarter-note."

I did find, on the same Dolmetsch site the following for "crotchet" :

Crotchet : on early pedal harps, small metal Ls which are drawn by the action towards the neck to shorten the sounding length of the harp

so, in the context of the web-site you linked, it may indeed have something to do with the duration of a sampled note.

Regards,


Perhaps staccato is what I am referring to. blush For some reason I always thought of staccato of a series of notes but it seems it can be a single note. blush I have a lot to learn yet. cry laugh

It seems that a single staccato note is accomplished in a different manner than a crotchet note. Staccato is shorter in duration than a crotchet. Correct?

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#1987468 - 11/16/12 01:04 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: ChopinAddict]
Vas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 47
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
That website you linked to also has "true staccato", but it doesn't seem to have any samples of it.


Yes, I emailed Imperfect Samples and asked for an audio example but should have also asked for a staccato audio example.

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#1987471 - 11/16/12 01:12 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17825
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Vas
[...]
It seems that a single staccato note is accomplished in a different manner than a crotchet note. Staccato is shorter in duration than a crotchet. Correct?


Well, yes, in principle. You should keep in mind, however that staccato refers to a type of approach or manner of playing a note while crotchet is a term indicating relative duration in time of a note, i.e. relative to a semi-breve (whole note) minim (half-note), quaver (eighth-note), semi-quaver (sixteenth-note), etc.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1987544 - 11/16/12 04:58 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
Vas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 47
I received this from www.imperfectsamples.com

TrueCrotchet just means that slow crotchets of around half a second in length were recorded (varying), and you can load it up as an instrument. In this sense, they aren't spliced together like most samples. Practically, this instrument can be used as a special effect if you're interested.

The Steinway has a round robin feature for repeated notes, which pitch shifts samples from above and below to create different repeat notes. This however, I find, is rarely necessary and I prefer the instrument on all its default settings. In fact, all the demos were done with default settings.

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#1987744 - 11/17/12 09:10 AM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Crotchet, breve, minim, quaver, semi-quaver and mensural notation--all seem like a holdover vocabulary from the middle ages to me, that is somewhat still in use in Great Britain, and much less so in the USA. I have no sense of how these words and concepts are used in non-English speaking nations.

Tomasino
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1987816 - 11/17/12 01:19 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: tomasino]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17825
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: tomasino
Crotchet, breve, minim, quaver, semi-quaver and mensural notation--all seem like a holdover vocabulary from the middle ages to me, that is somewhat still in use in Great Britain, and much less so in the USA. I have no sense of how these words and concepts are used in non-English speaking nations.

Tomasino


... and surely we don't want to forget :
- demisemiquaver (32nd note)
- hemidemisemiquaver (64th note) and
- semihemidemisemiquaver (128th note), a.k.a. quasihemidemisemiquaver!

Cheers!


Edited by BruceD (11/17/12 01:20 PM)
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1987840 - 11/17/12 02:18 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: BruceD]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4807
Don't forget that the British are (or used to be) people in love with words. Just read Shakespeare, Dickens, or even Jane Austen: 'It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.' (Pride and Prejudice). How can one reduce that to the mundane 'A rich man needs a wife'? grin

Similarly, why say 'one sixty-fourth note' when you can say (pompously) 'hemidemisemiquaver'? grin

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#1987892 - 11/17/12 04:52 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5899
Loc: Down Under
Well they're also used here in Australia. I grew up with them and don't find them a problem. I do have to stop and work out what a 64th note is when I read about it here on PW, however!
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1987925 - 11/17/12 06:51 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: BruceD]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: tomasino
Crotchet, breve, minim, quaver, semi-quaver and mensural notation--all seem like a holdover vocabulary from the middle ages to me, that is somewhat still in use in Great Britain, and much less so in the USA. I have no sense of how these words and concepts are used in non-English speaking nations.

Tomasino


... and surely we don't want to forget :
- demisemiquaver (32nd note)
- hemidemisemiquaver (64th note) and
- semihemidemisemiquaver (128th note), a.k.a. quasihemidemisemiquaver!

Cheers!


And that explains why the Brits drive on the wrong side of the road.

Tomasino
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1987969 - 11/17/12 09:09 PM Re: Crotchet or not to Crotchet – What does it mean? [Re: Vas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6092
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
We have one word in common, the longa. Long live the longa!
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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