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#1981760 - 11/02/12 12:52 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5305
For sheer profligacy (not just piano music), Niels Viggo Bentzon takes some beating. The BBC broadcasted some of his piano sonatas some time ago, and they aren't bad.
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#1982027 - 11/03/12 12:56 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: bennevis]
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 943
Loc: California
Should that perhaps be prolificacy?

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#1982152 - 11/03/12 11:30 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Ferdinand]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5305
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
Should that perhaps be prolificacy?


You're right: it should be '....profligacy and prolificacy...' grin
_________________________
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#1982641 - 11/04/12 02:30 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: bennevis]
ronde des sylphes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 29
Loc: Scotland
I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Another neglected composer is Karl Tausig. Not truly a great, but how many are? Plus he died at 29; a great loss to the music world. Here's possibly his most famous original work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbGHoPttwhQ

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#1982778 - 11/04/12 08:35 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: ronde des sylphes]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8907
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: ronde des sylphes
I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Incomprehensible, really?

Surely you jest. None of them remotely match the genius of Liszt's etudes, though Liapunov's piano writing is very effective, and yes, difficult. The music looks impressive on the printed page -Amy Beach's music comes to mind here- but there is little evidence of anything remotely original.

Liapunov was just another Russian, amongst many, who breathed the winds of Rimsky-Korsakov and Borodin, but basically re-wrote their music. Listen to his two symphonies. He should have been sued for plagiarism.
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#1982802 - 11/04/12 10:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: argerichfan]
AldenH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: ronde des sylphes
I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Incomprehensible, really?

Surely you jest. None of them remotely match the genius of Liszt's etudes, though Liapunov's piano writing is very effective, and yes, difficult. The music looks impressive on the printed page -Amy Beach's music comes to mind here- but there is little evidence of anything remotely original.

Liapunov was just another Russian, amongst many, who breathed the winds of Rimsky-Korsakov and Borodin, but basically re-wrote their music. Listen to his two symphonies. He should have been sued for plagiarism.


+1

A semi-professional performance of a Lyapunov etude I heard this summer was one of the dullest things I've heard in recent memory. Not on my list of "just below the greats."

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#1986394 - 11/13/12 11:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
Ridicolosamente Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Miami, Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: wr
wr, thanks so much again for taking the time to recommend the music. The Sessions sonata is great, I haven't been able to check out his other works yet. The Krenek and Markevitch variations are great - up there with some of the "standards" that are typically played. I'd forgotten about the cutoff in the final fugue as you had mentioned, and that was quite disappointing (really? so close to the finish?) Reminded me of a video of Leontyne Price singing Signore Ascolta that cuts off early - now that's just mean!! I still go back today and hope the outcome will be different, but no dice. The Honegger also enjoyable.

-Daniel
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#1986407 - 11/14/12 12:01 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
ThePawn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Alabama
I don't think that Grieg gets nearly enough love. Whoever said Granados gave a good answer. As far as recent composers, how about Nikolai Kapustin and Wim Statius Muller?

Jason

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#1986529 - 11/14/12 08:09 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Cheeto717 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 702
Loc: Pennsylvania
Kapustin is getting a lot of attention actually. His works frequently appear on competition and recital programs these days. Not to mention all the amateur videos put up on youtube of his etudes. And yes, he does pop up on the Pianist Corner from time to time.
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#1986653 - 11/14/12 01:36 PM Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Mark_C]
Nigel Keay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 132
Loc: Paris
I just participated in a concert where the music of Boris Lyatoshynsky was played, and he was described in the programme as one of the greatest Ukrainian composers. I couldn't find a mention of him on this forum, so here's a link to his Sonata No.1 from that concert.
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#1987907 - 11/17/12 05:42 PM Re: Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Mark_C]
Scordatura Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 129
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Boris Tchaikovsky? Has anybody ever heard of his namesake, Piotr Ilich (such an unfortunate name!)? I don't recall seeing one mention on PW of any of his solo piano works, which fill 6 volumes.

I'd add Thalberg and Blumenfeld, simply for their wonderful ingenuity in treating the keyboard. Ireland is pretty famously neglected, too.

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#1987941 - 11/17/12 07:34 PM Re: Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Scordatura]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8907
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Scordatura
Ireland is pretty famously neglected, too.

John Ireland I presume? Then, BINGO!

Not neglected at all is his setting of the Anglican Canticles in F -continually done in the UK- but his songs and piano sonata are indeed neglected. His piano concerto was once popular at The Proms, not appreciated these days so much, but it is an incredible piece of music.

Ireland's political beliefs have lost their pungency and relevance, really rather silly today, though he was at least honest about it.

More interesting is the chapter in the book 'Queer Episodes in Music and Modern Identity'. Pre-Stonewall history makes for very uncomfortable reading, and Ireland hid from us his deepest secrets.
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#1987959 - 11/17/12 08:33 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8907
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.

If anyone cares to listen to it.

I sorta grew up with this piece, it was much in the background of my youth in the UK, but none of my teachers ever asked me to consider learning it.

I guess it's time had gone by then, Ireland was suspect, but show me a greater piano concerto from that time.

Underrated, yes I would say so.
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#1988115 - 11/18/12 11:01 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Scordatura Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 129
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Many thanks for posting the Ireland Concerto, Argerichfan. Having not heard it since my youth - long before studying his solo piano music - it's really interesting to experience the musical language and idioms of the solo works (especially those of the 1920s) with the added dimension of orchestral timbres and serving the large-scale organizational expectations of a concerto. It'll require many listenings, though, to form a judgment as to whether the work succeeds as satisfyingly as the solo pieces, where Ireland was unquestionably on home ground.

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#1988801 - 11/20/12 03:14 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
redrobin62 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 25
Wieniawski and I share the same birthday, July 10. Interestingly, he also wrote a lengthy Bm sonata like Liszt. Unlike Liszt, however, he gets no love for his work. Shame. What's confusing, though, is the series "The Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 52" lists his Gm Piano Concerto as Op. 20. In other recordings, as well as Wikipedia, his piano concertos are listed as No. 1 in F#m, Op. 14 and No. 2 in Dm, Op. 22. So what is this Gm, Op. 22 business which I possess as the aforementioned Bm sonata? Looks like a job for Sherlock Holmes.
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#1988823 - 11/20/12 05:16 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: redrobin62]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: redrobin62
Wieniawski and I share the same birthday, July 10. Interestingly, he also wrote a lengthy Bm sonata like Liszt. Unlike Liszt, however, he gets no love for his work. Shame. What's confusing, though, is the series "The Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 52" lists his Gm Piano Concerto as Op. 20. In other recordings, as well as Wikipedia, his piano concertos are listed as No. 1 in F#m, Op. 14 and No. 2 in Dm, Op. 22. So what is this Gm, Op. 22 business which I possess as the aforementioned Bm sonata? Looks like a job for Sherlock Holmes.


Sherlock not needed - you are just confusing the Wieniawski brothers, Józef and Henryk.

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#1988974 - 11/20/12 02:08 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Teenagepiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/12
Posts: 28
I haven't been on these forums too long to make an accurate judgement, but I feel like Alkan's name should come up a lot more.

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#1988993 - 11/20/12 03:35 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't. But there's such a prejudice against him, one that even I can't help sharing to some extent. For example, I have Richter playing 2 whole CDs of his Keyboard Suites as part of the 'Icon' box. There are some insanely beautiful and exciting pieces on there, but I don't listen to it much. Often when I do put it on, after a while I tend to think: okay, that's enough Handel! And then I feel bad because I know he deserves better.

Here's a real-life scenario that that probably illustrates his current rep quite well:


I'm playing the Richter CDs.

Someone comes in. "Oh, I love this! Could you burn a disc for me?"

"Sure, I'll burn a disc of this Handel for you."

"Oh, it's Handel? I thought it was Bach?"

After that they never remind me to burn a disc for them, and I get to save a disc.

(Of course in reality I never would have burnt that disc for them, because that would be like stealing frown )

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?

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#2059508 - 04/04/13 10:55 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2341
Loc: SoCal
William Grant Still? He's definitely neglected, and undeservedly so.

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#2059529 - 04/05/13 12:00 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: dolce sfogato]
Dwscamel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 479
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
Lyapunov/Ljapoenoff/Liapunov it must be, he wrote 12 études d'ex.tr. (op.11) to follow up Liszt's 12, and did a good job: truly Lisztian in scope and difficulty, but very russian at that, and he wrote a wonderful sonata (op.27), based on the architecture of Liszt but, as in the études, he built a Russian Orthodox cathedral on the Lisztian example, the first really russian sounding sonata ever, really! Some good variationworks, a darling sonatina, why isn't he played more often: it's hard, and to go through that much trouble, well, most prefer the well known names, let's do the whole 'chopin/schumann/liszt/rachmaninoff/etc' rep. It might be a good idea to be adventurous and just try, and also play Medtner, and Glazunov, and Alkan, and Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky, but don't forget Lyapunov!


This is a GREAT post. I completely agree; I only know Lyapunov for his choral/religious music, but it's the kind of music you stop what you're doing to pay attention to. Lyapunov is thick musicking.

Glazunov wrote a saxophone sonata!

Medtner doesn't get much love -- the forgotten Russian Romantic -- but he has some nice shorter pieces (Fairy Tales?).

Of course, hit up Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky laugh.

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#2059542 - 04/05/13 01:19 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Dwscamel]
AldenH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't. But there's such a prejudice against him, one that even I can't help sharing to some extent.

[...]

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?


Schoenberg was very anti-Händel / pro-Bach on the same, purely musical grounds that the Nazis were when they adopted Händel as an approved state composer over Bach: simplicity! Some Händel can be great, but almost all of the Bach that I have heard has been infinitely richer than Händel. Just my (and Schoenberg's) two cents.

Originally Posted By: Plowboy
William Grant Still? He's definitely neglected, and undeservedly so.


I enjoyed this, to a point! His idiom feels a bit dated, and that it might not hold up to repeated listenings, but I haven't heard anything quite like it, so it's a very nice a palette cleanser!

Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky


Of course, hit up Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky laugh.


Rzweverklpylytcbzewski is a wonderful composer! grin


Okay, contribution time: Roger Redgate's Eidos. About a minute long, and I feel like it would make a great encore. I just bought the (two page) score for this today on the basis of Nicholas Hodges' powerful and affecting performance:


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#2059549 - 04/05/13 01:51 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Rzwvzckqaergliuajreljgfaweiojfiwulajaijfwetpszewsky is pretty under-appreciated, I agree.

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#2059609 - 04/05/13 05:22 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 832
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Rzwvzckqaergliuajreljgfaweiojfiwulajaijfwetpszewsky is pretty under-appreciated, I agree.


I agree, Rzwzezqszzzjjjisjzjfsky's so under-appreciated I never spell his name the same twice.

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#2059826 - 04/05/13 12:40 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Thrill Science Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 523
Loc: California
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#2059828 - 04/05/13 12:40 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Lingyis]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 387
Loc: Poland
Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

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#2060199 - 04/06/13 05:50 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: kapelli]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted By: kapelli
Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

Perhaps because he hasn't been entirely neglected here? At least I personally have tried to keep the discussion up about his music in various threads, haha wink

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#2060202 - 04/06/13 05:55 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
I haven't followed the entire thread, but it seems some of the russian avant-garde guys aren't mentioned much. Roslavets, Feinberg, Mosolov, people? Some very valuable stuff there, just discovering Roslavets piano sonatas.

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#2060212 - 04/06/13 06:37 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: kapelli
Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

Perhaps because he hasn't been entirely neglected here? At least I personally have tried to keep the discussion up about his music in various threads, haha wink


Not to mention that you have posted some very fine performances of his work!

For Polish composers who are really neglected here, how about Artur Malawski? His Symphonic Etudes for piano and orchestra should be better known, I think. As should the Toccata and Fugue in the Form of Variations, also for piano and orchestra - I can't even find a recording of this, although there is a rumor that there once was one. I wish somebody would upload it to YouTube, if it exists. Considering how rare it is, I am surprised that once, decades ago, I heard/saw it on a television broadcast, and still can remember how taken I was with it. The Symphonic Etudes are there already...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGbt0FE3jA

Back to Szymanowski, there's a new recording of the Symphonie Concertante on Chandos with Louis Lortie that's really good.

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#2060261 - 04/06/13 09:21 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: pianoslacker]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19479
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't...

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?
I think Handel's greatness has nothing to do with his keyboard music which I don't find very great. I think there are good reasons why it's almost never performed with the exception of a handful of works.

I think many of the composers on this thread may fall in the neglected category but hardly in the great category.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/06/13 09:23 AM)

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#2060293 - 04/06/13 10:31 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: pianoloverus]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think many of the composers on this thread may fall in the neglected category but hardly in the great category.

Well, I for one am fairly tired of the approach to music history where we have one Genius Composer carrying the torch of Western Classical Music until the next Genius Composer comes along and takes it over. Once you start looking under the surface, there was so much more going on. Early 20th century french music is so much more than just Ravel and Debussy...to give but one example. Also, it's only fair to point out that composers under the Great category often found inspiration from others around them, however less great they might have been. Just to give a example, a highly talented pianist I know, currently a visiting fellow at Harvard where he's been working with Robert Levin, once came across a little-known C minor piece (sonata perhaps, dont remember) by a mostly forgotten viennes classical composer that started with a motif close to identical to Mozart's C minor fantasy. After the closure on the dominant in the 2nd bar, the theme is re-stated one whole-tone down...As far as I remember, it was written in Vienna and pre-dates the Mozart piece by a year or two. Coincidence? Like Stravinsky said about great composers...they don't borrow, they steal.

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