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This may be a bit early...:) Here is a video from my Iphone 4 using the Tascam IM2 add-on mic. It was originally recorded by Liberace on a piano roll sometime in the late 70's early 80's. Later, some Ampico coding was added to give it a bit more expression. This is an LX scan from the Ampico roll, and played here on the LX. I recorded this about 6 months ago using Bill's custom EBVT III for my piano. I also used the Edwards string cover.


"White Christmas Medley" composed and played by Liberace, on the LX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VVRy30RcTo&feature=plcp

GP, this might be slightly OT but something struck me about this video: When looking at the keys go down I can see what looks like it needs more than two hands to play the notes. For example, there are bass notes being physically held down while there is a spread of upper notes that span more than one hand. This is not possible if the roll is a representation of the pianist on his own? I am not an expert in piano rolls so maybe this is a silly question.

Hi Chris...not silly at all, it's a good question!

Adding extra notes........This was one of the techniques the reproducing piano roll makers used to have the effect of a more complex and bigger sounding piece. There are many rolls out there that do not use this technique, but a lot that do, this being one of them.

All of the reproducing piano rolls ever produced were never able to capture 100% of what the pianist played, so in essence, they are not a true representation of the pianist, only a true representation for the reproducing player pianos. The 88 note rolls, which are very different from the reproducing rolls, have no expression other than loud and soft.

The most common reproducing rolls were the Ampico, Duo-Art, and Welte. A very popular 88 note roll was made by QRS.

On the other hand, the files made specifically for the LX, are a true 100% representation of the pianist.

This Liberace file was scanned from an Ampico roll. Liberace recorded this on a 88 note recording piano sometime in the late 70's, then some years later someone added the Ampico coding, which then gave it some expression. It was then scanned for the LX system.

I wonder about the reproducing roll made by the great pianists during early 20th century playing classics. Was there ever much doctoring of those rolls?

Everything on a reproducing roll was punched in according to markings on a roll. Dynamics were added according to notes made while the piece was played. Wrong notes were changed. Everything could be and was manipulated.

As the pianist played, a machine recorded in lines, the notes. After editing and approval, the rolls were punched. There was manipulation, and it was usually done in collaboration with the pianist, especially the great classical pianists. However, the length of the notes and the rhythms were not usually changed unless there was a mistake, or the pianist asked for a change. The Welte was another matter. An example, Rachmaninoff was reportedly paid $1,000 for every Ampico roll he made. He would listen to the final roll after the editors were finished, then have the editors make changes to, and/or add in some dynamics and expression to his liking, he would then give the ok to produce the roll. That was all they could do with the technology of their day.

An excellent website that goes into great detail and explains the inner most workings of the reproducing pianos, with some excellent mp3 recordings: http://www.pianola.org/reproducing/reproducing.cfm

I have always been interested in knowing how much doctoring there was ever since some recording I had during the 60's. Sometimes I can make comparisons with audio recordings of same the pianist and composition sometimes and the comparisons seem to be quite variable. It is disheartening to know that doctoring went much beyond that of patching up mistakes. There is often the essence of an artist's style in these reproductions which can come across indicating that much of the original nuances were captured and not interfered with too much at times.

Chris, you are correct, there is the 'essence' of the artists in many reproducing piano rolls. The mp3's on the pianola website are an excellent example. http://www.pianola.org/reproducing/reproducing.cfm

This is a good video on the whole mechanical process for piano rolls. Taken at the old QRS factory in Buffalo NY, no longer in operation unfortunately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3FTaGwfXPM

Yes, that is a good example.

Here is the original Ampico perforator back in working order!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLDLYMw3qg&feature=plcp

Just to add.....With the advent of computers etc, it is now possible to produce perfect, and in many cases, corrected original Ampico rolls. This company is one good example of what is possible nowadays, compared to the old cutting machines and technology of the 1920's.

http://www.precisionmusicrolls.com/technology.html

Where is Bill Bremmer?
I havn't seen him post around here since last August.

Well, Bill just tuned the Lester, again. As usual, it has a lovely shine to it. Thanks, Bill!

Before Bill tuned it, I *attempted* to tune it, and, as part of that attempt, also voiced the hammers. I needled the snot out of the them, and also used Jerry Groot's trick of using a wire brush on them. (I used my own trick of using a thimble to protect my finger from the voicing needle, too--a thimble on the finger steadying the hammer underneath the poke. Saved me some grief, for sure!) Needling and brushing really improved the sound. Thanks, Jer, for the wire brush trick!

So here, for your Christmas listening pleasure, is an arrangement of "Mary Had A Baby," (yes, she did!) as found in the Hal Leonard publication Christmas Solos For Piano: 60 Seasonal Favorites. Sadly, as is often the case in Hal Leonard publications, the arranger is not credited. I payed scurpulous attention to compositional details this time... Hope you like it.

Mary Had A Baby

--Andy Strong

Andy,

Oh my. What beauty! (Here I was going to let my thoughts flow about the voicing, the pedaling, the SPACE and connection with the instrument the exquisite tuning... but I'll leave it with beauty, and JOY).

so nice.

Thank you!

Forrest

p.s. I have you on the big screen. :-)

And, since this is a tuner, technician forum... Did you notice the absence of noise from that instrument, especially the dampers?

Well done! Well done!

Forrest

Shhhh...its been fairly quiet and civil around here, lets keep it that way.

Thanks, Forrest! Yes, the piano is behaving very nicely! I did have to bend one rogue damper into place (F2) and it still misbehaves somewhat, but the dampers really have settled in nicely. I also replaced the felt under the fall strip and also on the lip of the fall board, and that quieted down everything even more! Plus, I think the piano likes the winter when the climate inside the house gets steady!

I wish there was something I could do to improve the sound of the wound tri-chords in the tenor section, but I'm not at all sure what to do. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions. I do notice quite a few, uh, irregularities, in that part of the piano. Some of it looks like this:



Anyway, here's one more. This is a Phillip Keveren arrangement of Vince Guaraldi's "Christmas Time Is Here" that I did last night when the world around me was quiet.

Christmas Time Is Here

--Andy

Andy,

When you get a chance measure the speaking length of those trichords, let me know the note for each, core diameter, and overall wrap diameter (both of these with a caliper).

Jim Ialeggio

Cool, Jim! Will do! Thanks!

Enjoyed both recordings Andy!...very nice playing as well. Happy Holidays!