Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1995857 - 12/07/12 09:07 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Feminicricket]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Feminicricket
They don`t realize the importance of curved fingers and habits that go with it.


And why is that, do you suppose?

Wouldn't you think it would be obvious?

But apparently it is not. Hmmm. Doesn't that need some thought?

It would seem they can play everything at their level fine with long fingernails. They probably suspect deep down that a scholarship to a conservatory and a career as a concert pianist WOULD require cutting them. Then again, the chances of that happening to them are less than getting hit by a meteorite.

It might also be that not everybody agrees on how curved is curved enough, or if the anatomical advantages can be conveyed some other way.

I can't stand long fingernails myself, I keep mine very short. I'm sure I could play without problems if they were half an inch longer. Longer than that I'd probably have to practice.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1995896 - 12/07/12 10:45 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4873
Loc: Italy
As an adult student who had really long nails for well over 35 years, I can tell you from experience that a student won't cut their nails unless they are in love with playing the piano AND understand that long nails are an issue. Both points have to be realized.

I had long nails when I was 24 and bought my guitar......guess what? When I realized that even though Dolly Parton could do it, I couldn't, I basically played guitar when one of my nails broke and I cut the others so my hand would be "balanced"! I was not in love with the guitar.

When I started piano, even though my teacher convinced me it was important it still took me several months, yes months, of gradually trimming and getting used to short nails before I really started keeping them short. I hate short nails, I really do (on me, I mean, I don't think about other people's nails) -- but I love piano more.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXIV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#1995938 - 12/07/12 12:13 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: casinitaly]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I hate short nails, I really do (on me, I mean, I don't think about other people's nails) -- but I love piano more.


Exactly. You made the change after you'd become convinced it was the correct decision, or at least the lesser of two evils.

Students aren't convinced, I think partly because most of them aren't sufficiently serious about attaining a high level of performance, and partly because their teacher hasn't earned a high enough degree of credibility that their advice is accepted without question.

That means a student has room to debate it, and maybe the answers aren't convincing. Maybe because short nails and curved fingers are so much part of the teacher's worldview that he/she has never thought about why.

I think I could go on youtube and find many examples of high level pianists with short nails. And if we looked really closely, some of them would be fine with much longer nails than they have. I just used a ruler and measured the distance from my middle finger nail to the surface of my desk in playing position. I could add 1/4 inch to that finger, and obviously more to all the other fingers (because they curve less in normal playing).

Now if you explained to me the tendon attachment anatomy and the exact degree of curvature necessary for joint stability, I'd have bought it. But even as a student I was an engineer.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1995946 - 12/07/12 12:27 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Whoops.
I have to take it all back.
Just looked at this picture:
http://bountifulpianolessons.blogspot.com/2010/07/to-curve-or-not-to-curve-that-is.html
and realized my hand position is wrong, wrong, wrong. I've been playing with the pads not knowing I should be using only the tip of the finger. Obviously short nails are more important than I realized!
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1995973 - 12/07/12 01:25 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
You're not related to a guy called keyboard klutz, are you?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#1995984 - 12/07/12 01:48 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3158
Loc: Virginia, USA
Hee, hee. Hope not.

Whether you need to cut your nails probably depends a bit on whether your image of curved is dribbling a basketball or gripping a golf ball.

But that's just mechanics.

The psychology of influencing a child is a different matter. They tend to ask why, and are sometimes skeptical of the answer. Especially if there is no immediate payoff, like something being easier to play now rather than in 10 years.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1996293 - 12/08/12 07:55 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]
Nannerl Mozart Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 732
Loc: Australia, Melbourne
The more I read about piano pedagogy, the more I see that it has changed and shifted significantly over the past few decades. I'm saying this... and I'm only 21 and half way through my music degree.

I've talked to my teacher about my teaching issues and I've noticed that he's the traditional type of teacher, with a more fundamentalist approach, the type that only takes on 'serious' students - he won't teach Jazz, or improvisation or more contemporary popular genres... but he will teach classical - including 20th and 21st century music, he will teach harmony, aural and he also is available to accompany and teach me how to teach. He believes that technique is the foundation, without it we pave the way to injury, we also pave the way to bad or limited musicality.

I've always regarded his way as right or perhaps the more correct approach. The more I read and the more I interact with other teachers, I can see that his way fits me but it's not necessarily the right way. Teachers who belong to the latter group (the ones who would teach popular music, improvisation and more 'fun' stuff) are the type who are probably open to less 'serious' students and who are ok with the long nails thing.

It makes me wonder where I stand on the issue. I know that all students are not like me. As a student, I was pretty serious, and still am ... but I have my reasons - I am a music major. I'm not as serious as a piano major as piano performance is not my major but I guess I took lessons as a child and the younger you are, the more superior the teacher is - the teacher is always right in that instance. I suppose with teenagers and adults you leave it to their prerogative - or if you have a big issue with it you drop them. In addition to this, I work in another industry (in the Food industry) and as junior chef there is no option, you either cut your nails or you don't work in the kitchen. It was that simple. Maybe I'm hoping that my teenage student would see it in that light. Or maybe it is that simple - I've done what I can to convince her to cut her nails. She realises that it is physically possible to play with long nails but it is not ideal and in the end, I can either tolerate it or drop her.
_________________________
http://colouredsilence.wordpress.com/


Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
72 registered (a-z0-9, barbaram, AndrewJCW, barmassimo, AZNpiano, 19 invisible), 1331 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75553 Members
42 Forums
156219 Topics
2294265 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Happy Birthday Cinnamonbear!
by Kuanpiano
Yesterday at 11:17 PM
Finger "Tapes": Purpose?
by CleverName
Yesterday at 10:56 PM
Accessories needed for grand pianos.
by Stevio55
Yesterday at 08:31 PM
Schulze Pollmann 113e Moderno detail information?
by pdxfz1
Yesterday at 07:12 PM
Will starting on unweighted keys cause problems later on?
by Alex1
Yesterday at 05:43 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission