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#1989533 - 11/21/12 05:39 PM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: JFP]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
A consumer attitude of accepting, and apparently almost expecting, poor quality manufacturing as long as it can be corrected at the users home (or work location) after receipt of a new product is a key enabler that produces poor quality manufacturing in the first place. Excellence in product design and zero defects in manufacturing should be expected. It is achievable when it is expected and demanded by consumers and manufacturers.

Human error is always a variable, but it can be reduced to a negligible level with adequate process control. I say this as a product designer and former executive in a Fortune 500 technology company, that also owned his own small company which designed and manufactured its own high-tech products for over a decade. Consumers should demand the best quality and expect the best service. Then the most successful companies will be the best at providing both.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1989746 - 11/22/12 11:36 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: CompuCat]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3524
Loc: Northern England.
Interesting. I bought one a few years ago; the playing action was really light and good; ideal for playing in restaurants as I was then. But it sounded on occasions, like a howling banshee; something went wrong big time. It took nearly 12 months for them to accept responsibilty and replace the offending circuit board. A dealer in Preston (UK)refuses to sell `em, their reputation was so bad. Methinks it must have changed for the better now. But at the time, my dealer (Promenade Music, Morecambe, was less than helpful.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#1989973 - 11/23/12 04:11 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: Macy]
antonfranz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 21
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Macy
Excellence in product design and zero defects in manufacturing should be expected. It is achievable when it is expected and demanded by consumers and manufacturers.

Human error is always a variable, but it can be reduced to a negligible level with adequate process control.... the most successful companies will be the best at providing both.

100 right ! I couldn't agree with you more. My experience with my Kawai CS9 should have been a totally different one! (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1957075.html)
Cheers,
Antonfranz

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#1990008 - 11/23/12 08:22 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: CompuCat]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
I'll second that.
If we expect poor quality, manufacturers will give us what we expect (and deserve).
So don't!

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#1990021 - 11/23/12 10:03 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: CompuCat]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@antonfranz , I read your story carefully and understand your frustration. However , it is not clear and probably never will be, if the keys had been adjusted before the Kawai rep was called in to check the piano. In that case the keybed would have looked in pretty good shape and the judgement of the Kawai rep not to fix the keybed is normal . I'm not defending anyone in particular, but I have some experience with thomann and what they say and promise is not always what happens in reality. They are a big company with fast moving products and what happened to your CS in reality is unknown. Could have been that it has been standing around for while before someone took care of it. Could have been that they wanted a second opinion from Kawai in a later stadium , when they doubted if sending the unit back and forth was worth it, considering the logistic costs. They may have been afraid that you would find something else wrong with the unit later on and sent it back again, completely wiping out their profits. In all it seems to me that a Kawai rep came in only at a late stadium and perhaps Kawai service was only involved very late in this scenario, while in the meantime your frustration got time to wax. The fact that your CS had flaws is a bad thing. What happened afterward was something where thomann and Kawai were involved and what exactly was said and done and when we'll Never know. I've got promises broken and things said (that were not done or different in reality) with thomann as well, so my only point is that it is hard to lay blame on just one party for all that went wrong, when we weren't there to see what actually happened. Good to hear you enjoy your Yamaha ! looks very nice too...J

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#1990039 - 11/23/12 11:38 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: JFP]
antonfranz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 21
Loc: Italy
@ JFP
Originally Posted By: JFP
@antonfranz , ....The fact that your CS had flaws is a bad thing. What happened afterward was something where thomann and Kawai were involved and what exactly was said and done and when, we'ii Never know ....... so my only point is that it is hard to lay blame on just one party for all that went wrong, when we weren't there to see what actually happened. Good to hear you enjoy your Yamaha ! looks very nice too...J

Your words sound very balanced and wise to me and I can share your comments despite my obvious frustration .Now I am happy with my Yamaha and that's what counts....
Thank you JFP.
Ciao,
Antonfranz

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#1993325 - 12/01/12 06:13 PM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: CompuCat]
WippenJackSpring Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Idaho, U.S.A.
Hello.

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I own a Kawai MP10 and only have and/or had a few complaints with it.

First the sustain pedal was not consistently disengaging when I would lift up and away. I emailed Kawai US and they very quickly sent me a new double pedal module by FedEx. I was very impressed with Kawai US's fast response. Although, if I owned the company, I would have followed up with an email to see if my problem had been solved, instead of just assuming that it had.

The music stand on the Kawai MP10 is a very frustrating piece of hardware. You know how sometimes you wonder if the engineers actually try/use the things they design to see if they actually work or not. To see just how user friendly they are. Well that is the case with the music stand. That is, sheets of paper will bend (concave) then slide off onto the keyboard - very frustrating. More firm book like music will stay up (if they are firm enough). I am not bragging, but I could design/engineer a much better music stand for the Kawai MP10.

The last problem is that, by design, Kawai decided to not include the modeling (if that is the right term) for the sustaining vibration of the virtual key's strings when transitioning from the sustain pedal to re-engaging the respective key(s) on the keyboard. Some manufactures include this feature. Kawai apparently does not, at least on the MP10. I hope yours has this feature included.


WJS.

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#1993382 - 12/01/12 08:07 PM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: CompuCat]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9018
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
WJS,

Thank you your feedback about the MP10.

I'm glad to read that my colleagues at Kawai America were able to provide a replacement pedal unit efficiently. I'm not familiar with ther customer support follow-up policy, but will pass on your comments on Monday.

Regarding the music rest and individual sheets of music, this topic was discussed in the following thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1973926/

However, I shall make a note of suggesting that the music rest design be improved for future instruments.

Finally, regarding the damper pedal re-engaging, this is another improvement that I would like to see implemented in future Kawai instruments.

Thank you once again for your useful feedback.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1993410 - 12/01/12 09:43 PM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: WippenJackSpring]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 371
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: WippenJackSpring

The music stand on the Kawai MP10 is a very frustrating piece of hardware. You know how sometimes you wonder if the engineers actually try/use the things they design to see if they actually work or not. To see just how user friendly they are. Well that is the case with the music stand. That is, sheets of paper will bend (concave) then slide off onto the keyboard - very frustrating. More firm book like music will stay up (if they are firm enough). I am not bragging, but I could design/engineer a much better music stand for the Kawai MP10.
WJS.


I just made a post about an easy way to fix this... http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1993408

Other than the music rest I'm pretty pleased with my MP10. I haven't had any problems with the sustain pedal or with key spacings.
_________________________
Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#1993455 - 12/02/12 12:18 AM Re: Kawai quality and service experience [Re: Allan W.]
WippenJackSpring Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Idaho, U.S.A.
Thanks Allan.

I read what K. James said on the other thread and saw your fix in the pictures.

I too may have to do that.

smile

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