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#1989604 - 11/21/12 10:31 PM What does this musical symbol mean?
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
I can't show you a picture of the symbol of piece it came from a I lack the computer skills. The piece was a jazz version of White Christmas. The symbol looked liked a quarter of a circle...the part from 12:15 to 12:30. At first I thought it was some misprint on the score but it appeared many times....each time before a tied single note G in the bass.

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#1989612 - 11/21/12 11:19 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Nikolas Online   content
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Is it filled (black)? Or not?
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#1989620 - 11/21/12 11:34 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Nikolas]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Is it filled (black)? Or not?
No, just like a quarter of a circle drawn.

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#1989628 - 11/22/12 12:40 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Maybe it is a jazz symbol (I don't play jazz, but jazz has its own symbols, for example if you look at this page and search for "jazz symbols" it shows something that could be what you are looking for).
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#1989730 - 11/22/12 10:42 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Thrill Science Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Can you photograph it with your phone and email it to someone who can put it up here?

It sounds like a "wedge" -- an accent -- but usually these are triangular and not 1/4 of a circle.
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#1989744 - 11/22/12 11:35 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
rada Offline
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Does it have a dot under it? If so it's a fermata.

rada

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#1989750 - 11/22/12 11:42 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: rada]
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted By: rada
Does it have a dot under it? If so it's a fermata.

rada


No; he said that the curved line occurs at the 3 to 6 position on a clock.
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#1989753 - 11/22/12 11:49 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I can't show you a picture of the symbol of piece it came from a I lack the computer skills. The piece was a jazz version of White Christmas. The symbol looked liked a quarter of a circle...the part from 12:15 to 12:30. At first I thought it was some misprint on the score but it appeared many times....each time before a tied single note G in the bass.


I wonder if it is a symbol used in jazz somewhat akin to a "slide" or "schleifer" in Baroque music where two notes of the scale below the note on the score are played, quickly, step-wise on the beat before the principal note. Conventionally, this would be noted as grace notes before the beat, but I'm wondering - pure speculation on my part and if this symbol represents what I'm suggesting - if this gives the performer a choice of how many notes to play rather than being given a specific number as in the grace notes.

It seems to me that what I suggest is something I've heard in jazz/pop piano music, although not having any jazz scores, I've not seen how this might be notated other than as grace notes before the beat.

Regards,
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#1989762 - 11/22/12 12:21 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: BruceD]
RealPlayer Offline
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Registered: 05/02/03
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If it *always* occurs before the tied G, could it be a glitch in the engraving process that put it there? In other words, a mistake? Where is it, exactly, in relation to the tied notes -- right in front of them, and on the same level?
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#1989827 - 11/22/12 03:32 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: RealPlayer]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
If it *always* occurs before the tied G, could it be a glitch in the engraving process that put it there? In other words, a mistake? Where is it, exactly, in relation to the tied notes -- right in front of them, and on the same level?
It's always slightly to the left a slightly below the note head for first of the two tied G's. I'm guessing the arranger used some computer program to print this piece so it may very well be a glitch. The piece sounds perfectly OK to me as is(without assuming this symbol adds anything).


Edited by pianoloverus (11/22/12 03:34 PM)

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#1989835 - 11/22/12 03:49 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: BruceD]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Originally Posted By: BruceD

I wonder if it is a symbol used in jazz somewhat akin to a "slide" or "schleifer" in Baroque music where two notes of the scale below the note on the score are played, quickly, step-wise on the beat before the principal note.
I can't imagine adding any grace notes before the G's would sound good in this instance, but that may just be because I've learned it without adding any extra notes and am used to hearing it that way.

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#1990426 - 11/24/12 05:54 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
daviel Offline
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David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1990585 - 11/25/12 04:14 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Bobpickle Offline

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Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Sounds kind of like a scoop, which you could likely get a good description of on the non-classical forums if you haven't tried already. I've encountered these in Jamey Aebersold jazz instructional texts that aren't instrument-specific (not sure any of his are).

Scoop - (music, often with "up") To begin a vocal note slightly below the target pitch and then to slide up to the target pitch, especially in country music.




of the picture you and bruce described, a Breath Mark also comes to mind, though I can hardly imagine why such a mark would come up in discussion here or be listed on any piano transcriptions (or why you wouldn't say the symbol looked like a comma)


Edited by Bobpickle (11/25/12 04:15 AM)

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#1990586 - 11/25/12 04:18 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Bobpickle]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
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I had initially thought it could be a breath mark too, but then I noticed he said "in the bass" (and breath marks are usually not in the bass). I am pretty sure it is a jazz symbol.
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#1990606 - 11/25/12 07:46 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
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I emailed the person who arranged this piece after finding out his PW name in another thread where he posted an arrangement of Lo How A Rose E're Blooming. So if he gets back to me we'll all find out if this is a symbol or a typo.

It's not a breath mark which is shaped like a comma and has a different shape then I described in my OP.

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#1990757 - 11/25/12 04:07 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
LimeFriday Offline
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Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia


Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.

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#1990801 - 11/25/12 07:56 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: LimeFriday]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday


Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.
Yes, the version in the piece I mentioned looks like the one next to the E in your score. So what does it mean?

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#1990839 - 11/25/12 10:09 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
LimeFriday Offline
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Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.

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#1990847 - 11/25/12 10:31 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: LimeFriday]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.

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#1990870 - 11/25/12 11:21 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday


Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.
Yes, the version in the piece I mentioned looks like the one next to the E in your score. So what does it mean?
Ah... ok then...

This is why none of us could understand what you mean. This is a symbol for winds instruments (mostly, and could also apply to strings as well if need be).

It's the idea of 'gliding into the right note'. If this is a score for keyboards rather than piano, then I'd assume that the composer/editor means using the pitch wheel a little. If this is for piano though, I'd just do a couple of appogiaturas there and get it over with...

Depending on the bend, and the direction of the note, you chose the right appogiaturas... That's all there is to it. But it totally makes sense that noone could understand what you mean. It's very very rarely seen in piano music. If you had gone to the non classical forum, I think you'd have a much better chance of getting a reply sooner!
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#1990873 - 11/25/12 11:35 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6226
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.


Who's arrangement is it?
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#1992221 - 11/29/12 12:11 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
LoPresti Offline
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Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Think of a bagpipe, warming up . . .
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In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1992225 - 11/29/12 12:15 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Damon]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.


Who's arrangement is it?
J. Keil

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#1992621 - 11/29/12 10:47 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
daviel Offline
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Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Here is a scoop used in charts for horn players: lead sheets scoop

Looks like the music above has the player falling off to a rest and slurring up to a rest. You can slur notes on a piano. Done all the time in jazz and blues. The Chopin I'm learning has series of tiny notes leading to the end note.

I have never seen the symbol at the last 1/2 note chord - squiggly arrow. I'm used to a broken chord symbol - always in my world rolled from the bass on up. I have never seen one with an arrowhead on the top.

OP said it is a jazz version of White Christmas - so it's probably intended to mean a pitch wheel maneuver. I play keys, but most of the keyboard players I know don't read!


Edited by daviel (11/29/12 10:57 PM)
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#1992645 - 11/30/12 12:56 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]
Auntie Lynn Offline
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Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: San Francisco, CA
I have the same situation with a crazy looking squiggle marking at the end of one of the Bolcom Ghost Rags...nobody has been able to figure it out (so far)...


Edited by Auntie Lynn (11/30/12 12:57 AM)

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#1992659 - 11/30/12 01:50 AM What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Auntie Lynn]
LoPresti Offline
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Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Auntie Lynn
I have the same situation with a crazy looking squiggle marking at the end of one of the Bolcom Ghost Rags...nobody has been able to figure it out (so far)...

Let me see . . . . . what could we all learn from this thread so far?
Reviewing for a moment, our original poster gave a word description (actually a pretty graphic one!) of the symbol he was attempting to decipher.
Nicholas attempted to get a more complete picture. Others started guessing, and zeroing in on jazz articulation. Then BobPickle had a very educated guess, but we had no way of being sure.
But it was not until someone actually posted the pictures of these symbols, and they were verified by our original poster, that Nikolas could actually, and definitively say, this is a _____.

Now, here we are, a few days later, with a new and different word description. So, let's see - we could ask more questions verbally, and then a few individuals could start guessing at it, based on the word descriptions. And then, someone else could hunt around and link-in an image of what we think this "crazy looking squiggle marking" might be. And then we'll need to wait for confirmation from Auntie Lynn that one of them is the correct symbol in question.
=OR=
Auntie Lynn could just post an image of the "crazy looking squiggle marking", so we can decipher it for her.

But, I guess that ruins the dance?
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