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#1990239 - 11/24/12 08:36 AM piano technician?
ZBGM0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 97
Few days ago I had this experience with one technician and I would like to ask you for opinion about this technician (based on my description).

I will describe his work.

1) I had this buzzing (not metallic ringing sound) sound in G2. All he (technician) was doing was trying to fix it with tuning and voicing. That’s it, NOTHING else. Of course he wasn’t able to fix it. I am total laic, but I read quite a lot and I found out that buzzing sounds are very common things on pianos (no matter which brand) and that it is also very difficult to discover where the buzzing comes from. I read there can be 100 things that can cause this buzzing (correct me if I am wrong), but technician did just tuning and voicing, he didn’t checked anything else (the rest “98” things that can be responsible for buzzing). The last thing in his mind was checking anything else.

2)He asked me about the humidity in the room. I told him that I usually have about 50 % RH. Then he told that I should have much lower humidity in the winter than in the summer. He told that humidity is much more “delicate” thing as most people think and that it is important to HAVE SWINGS in humidity. But everyone here suggested that you have to maintain stable humidity as much as possible (no swings). Why does he suggest humidity swings?

3)I told my technician that I play sometimes with the lid opened and sometimes with the lid completely closed. For instance: if I have intention to practice for a long time then I will probably play with the lid closed because my ears will eventually start to suffer. Or if I have full house of people and if I have intention to learn completely new pieces that I have never played before then I will also not want to play loud. But technician told me that I shouldn’t play with the lid closed because that will eventually DESTROY the strings…? If I play quietly with the lid closed why is this so wrong?

What do you think about this technician?

sorry for my English


Edited by ZBGM0 (11/24/12 08:37 AM)

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#1990256 - 11/24/12 09:08 AM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2077
Loc: Maine
A persistent buzz will often require extra time and sometimes another appointment.

I suspect that there was a miscommunication with respect to relative humidity. You don't indicate the geographic location of the piano.

A closed lid won't hurt anything (that I've ever heard of).

Do you and the tech speak the same language? I get a little indication from your post that there might be a communication problem.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1990279 - 11/24/12 10:55 AM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
ZBGM0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 97
No communication problem. You probably think that technician was trying to say that in the winter there is lower humidity outside, but this was not what he was trying to say.

Yes, in the winter we have lower humidity than in the summer (middle Europe), but he wasn’t talking about this (if you had this in your mind). He was trying to say that I NEED to have lower humidity in MY ROOM during the winter (about 45 %), but in the summer it is OK to have 60 %. I know exactly what he was telling. He wasn’t talking about natural swings that mother nature is responsible for, but he told me that piano NEEDS to have swings – 100%. He actually SUGGESTED swings, that’s why I am asking here, because this sounds very illogical.

As far as closed lid is concerned, he said: “this is perfect way for destroying strings”.



Edited by ZBGM0 (11/24/12 12:06 PM)

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#1990287 - 11/24/12 11:15 AM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
I think your instinct is correct. This guy seems to be repeating a lot of strange myths about pianos. Where he's got them from it's difficult to say, but swings in humidity are not desirable. Natural, yes, but the steadier the humidity, the better for the piano. And closing the lid makes no difference to the strings - how could it?
Bottom line is, if you're finding it difficult to trust this technician, then go with how you feel.
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1990351 - 11/24/12 02:38 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Ditto. Get another technician. This person seems to not know what he's talking about in my opinion.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1990373 - 11/24/12 03:32 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
'Tis poppycock!
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1990393 - 11/24/12 04:39 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2077
Loc: Maine
Yea, if you have a choice, get another tech. The only way a shut lid could damage anything is if the family cat was trapped in there for a few days. sick
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1991125 - 11/26/12 02:31 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
ZBGM0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 97
Thanks, I already had this feeling from the beginning that he is incapable doing his job. I just needed your confirmation.

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#1991217 - 11/26/12 06:57 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7452
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: ZBGM0
No communication problem. You probably think that technician was trying to say that in the winter there is lower humidity outside, but this was not what he was trying to say.

Yes, in the winter we have lower humidity than in the summer (middle Europe), but he wasn’t talking about this (if you had this in your mind). He was trying to say that I NEED to have lower humidity in MY ROOM during the winter (about 45 %), but in the summer it is OK to have 60 %. I know exactly what he was telling. He wasn’t talking about natural swings that mother nature is responsible for, but he told me that piano NEEDS to have swings – 100%. He actually SUGGESTED swings, that’s why I am asking here, because this sounds very illogical.

As far as closed lid is concerned, he said: “this is perfect way for destroying strings”.



Swingws are normal, may be he told that you better dont go under 45 in the winter. it is not a good idea to try to keep the same moisture levelo in summer and in winter, as that would mean adding much moisture in a heated room.

But if he could not explain that clearly (plus the strings that get destroyed if you let the lid closed) makes me wonder.

If your moisture is high for a long time of the year you may find advantageous to protect the strings from corrosion in the soundboard from excessive moisture.

May be he felt that there is too much (or not enough) humidity in your room (a tuner can perceive those things while tuning)

May be he want to sell you a Dampp Chaser...

Whatever, you may have a digital hygrometer and make a survey, comparing temperature AND hygrometry to see if you are in an acceptable range for your instrument.

Swings are normal I begin to be concerned under 40% for a moderate temperature in winter (18°c for instance)

Always relate that to the wood moisture content and you will notice that a permanent 45% moisture does not mean that the wood moisture will not vary.

PS closing the lid when the piano is not used is protecting against moisture and dust. Playing with the lid close will not hurt anything unless you play brutally if for instance the tone level is really soft with the lid closed...


Edited by Kamin (11/26/12 06:59 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1991480 - 11/27/12 12:41 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1669
Loc: Mexico City
1) He wants to make another appointment to get rid of this buzz.
2) He wants to tune your piano each time the humidity swings.
3) He wants to clean up your soundboard from time to time.

If he fixes the buzz in that very moment, if the HR is constant all the year long and if your soundboard is clean, when are you calling him for the next job?

He has to make a living! whome



Edited by Gadzar (11/27/12 02:46 PM)
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

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#1991534 - 11/27/12 02:29 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
Originally Posted By: ZBGM0
Thanks, I already had this feeling from the beginning that he is incapable doing his job. I just needed your confirmation.


You don't like his tuning then, why do you need confirmation in this case?

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#1991556 - 11/27/12 03:23 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: otherside]
ZBGM0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 97
Originally Posted By: otherside
Originally Posted By: ZBGM0
Thanks, I already had this feeling from the beginning that he is incapable doing his job. I just needed your confirmation.


You don't like his tuning then, why do you need confirmation in this case?


Who mentioned that I don’t like his tuning?

I just wrote things that I have never heard before, which was odd to me…but of course I am no technician, therefore I think it is nothing wrong if I ask experts here for opinion although I was 99 % that he was talking rubbish…and now I am 100%. Stupid would be not to ask.

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#1991670 - 11/27/12 07:41 PM Re: piano technician? [Re: ZBGM0]
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
Originally Posted By: ZBGM0
Who mentioned that I don’t like his tuning?

I just wrote things that I have never heard before, which was odd to me…but of course I am no technician, therefore I think it is nothing wrong if I ask experts here for opinion although I was 99 % that he was talking rubbish…and now I am 100%. Stupid would be not to ask.


Most tuners aren't technicians, some are and others are rebuilders.

Also one dubious remark doesn't prove a lot except he isn't afraid to have his own ideas.

You can do things by feel quite well without the right logic behind it perhaps or you know some logic but have no flexibility to adjust if necessary.

Perhaps you are right in thinking the technical part isn't his forte, however you need him for the tuning probably, not for finding a buzz, this you could fix yourself.

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