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If we're still discussing who "pioneered" this, I'm sticking with Beethoven. (Besides op.14/1 which I mentioned, we have parts of the last movement of 27/2, and the slow movement of 106, if memory is serving correctly. I'm sure there are others.) Thoughts, disagreements, counter-examples?
Seems like the OP is smitten with that texture, and is looking for its like. Check out Henselt, who influenced Rachmaninoff plenty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC4nFHuFIUg
Yeah that Henselt etute definitely has that style.
What are some of Thalberg's works along those lines that I should check out?
Kohler and Campbell skg-600s 5'9 grand (newly acquired) I'm not a tech but ambitiously learning out of necessity since I live in the middle of nowhere and getting a tech to come out here for minor things (that I could and want to learn to do myself) is prohibitively expensive.
I think it's humorous that some effortfully answered a question that didn't seem to be asked. I would have fallen for it too had I chimed in earlier.
Originally Posted by beet31425
If we're still discussing who "pioneered" this, I'm sticking with Beethoven. (Besides op.14/1 which I mentioned, we have parts of the last movement of 27/2, and the slow movement of 106, if memory is serving correctly. I'm sure there are others.) Thoughts, disagreements, counter-examples?
-J
Jason I see your 1798 Op 14/1 and raise you 1795 WoO70:
-Daniel
Currently working on: -Poulenc Trois pièces -Liszt Harmonies du Soir -Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
The composer I was thinking of is Rachmaninoff... I've never heard any other composer/pianist do it as well as Rachmaninoff... Indeed Liszt's Un Sospiro is the best example of this style from Liszt that I've heard.
I don't think it's a "Rachmaninoff-style" at all. I don't even know what point of the 2nd piano concerto you're referring to. Chords vs octaves over "sweeping arpeggios" are very different textures in my opinion. "...lyrical octave melody with the right hand, over sweeping arpeggios played by the left hand..." is textbook 19th century, especially Liszt:
-Daniel
Currently working on: -Poulenc Trois pièces -Liszt Harmonies du Soir -Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Kohler and Campbell skg-600s 5'9 grand (newly acquired) I'm not a tech but ambitiously learning out of necessity since I live in the middle of nowhere and getting a tech to come out here for minor things (that I could and want to learn to do myself) is prohibitively expensive.
I'm definitely not a musicologist, but I think several of Mozart's piano concertos utilize this style/technique. Was it someone earlier you are think of? I am not sure if Handel did it in a keyboard work, but some of the opera material seems to be of this style. Answers? I'm dying to know who you have in mind.
Those interested in this kind of writing should look into the other lesser-known Russian romantics:
Lyapunov, Arensky, Medtner
(Especially the Transcendental Etudes by Lyapunov, they're amazing!)
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
Some of the examples given so far seem to fit the description mentioned in the OP but many don't I think. Among those that don't I'd include most of the Chopin Nocturnes, Beethoven Op.27 No.2, Op. 14 No.1, WoO70, Brahms Ballad, D. Scarlatti.
Reminds me of some of the answers to the mystery rag thread where the OP specifically mentioned tremolos and many of the suggested answers had no tremolos whatsoever.
Some of the examples given so far seem to fit the description mentioned in the OP but many don't I think. Among those that don't I'd include most of the Chopin Nocturnes, Beethoven Op.27 No.2, Op. 14 No.1, WoO70, Brahms Ballad, D. Scarlatti.
Reminds me of some of the answers to the mystery rag thread where the OP specifically mentioned tremolos and many of the suggested answers had no tremolos whatsoever.
Funny. I know my Beethoven WoO70 doesn't have 3-octave spanning arpeggios, I still think it's a good early example. I did find some of the other suggestions bizarre myself.
But it's the Internet and PW. You always get that "er.. what?" chime-in, and you'll always have people like me that defend what they write
-Daniel
Currently working on: -Poulenc Trois pièces -Liszt Harmonies du Soir -Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
I guess the catalyst for my question is that this is the particular style that lured me back into classical music, but there are other more difficult styles in classical music that I am not attempting at this time.
The point being when somebody asks me what style piano I like to play, it is inaccurate for me to state I play generic "classical piano". I want to describe the style yet I don't know how to describe this style other than Rachmaninoff style, which is misleading since only a small part of Rach's overall style was influential although he is my favorite composer/pianist. How do I describe this playing style?
Kohler and Campbell skg-600s 5'9 grand (newly acquired) I'm not a tech but ambitiously learning out of necessity since I live in the middle of nowhere and getting a tech to come out here for minor things (that I could and want to learn to do myself) is prohibitively expensive.
I guess the catalyst for my question is that this is the particular style that lured me back into classical music, but there are other more difficult styles in classical music that I am not attempting at this time.
The point being when somebody asks me what style piano I like to play, it is inaccurate for me to state I play generic "classical piano". I want to describe the style yet I don't know how to describe this style other than Rachmaninoff style, which is misleading since only a small part of Rach's overall style was influential although he is my favorite composer/pianist. How do I describe this playing style?
I don't get it. If you are playing a piece by Rachmaninoff, then you are playing classical piano music (which isn't really a style, but a genre). It is accurate to describe a piece by Rachmaninoff as "classical music".
There isn't a "style" descriptor for music that simply is a tune in octaves over big arpeggios. It's just another of the myriad of homophonic textures available to a composer. The fact that you've singled it out as something that Rachmaninoff does at times doesn't mean that it is a "style".
Some of the examples given so far seem to fit the description mentioned in the OP but many don't I think. Among those that don't I'd include most of the Chopin Nocturnes, Beethoven Op.27 No.2, Op. 14 No.1, WoO70, Brahms Ballad, D. Scarlatti.
Reminds me of some of the answers to the mystery rag thread where the OP specifically mentioned tremolos and many of the suggested answers had no tremolos whatsoever.
Funny. I know my Beethoven WoO70 doesn't have 3-octave spanning arpeggios, I still think it's a good early example. I did find some of the other suggestions bizarre myself.
From the score you posted the arpeggios never go beyond even a single octave and thus, I think, cannot be described as "sweeping". I'm not sure most would even classify the figures in that piece as arpeggios... to me they're more like an extended alberti bass.
I guess the catalyst for my question is that this is the particular style that lured me back into classical music, but there are other more difficult styles in classical music that I am not attempting at this time.
The point being when somebody asks me what style piano I like to play, it is inaccurate for me to state I play generic "classical piano". I want to describe the style yet I don't know how to describe this style other than Rachmaninoff style, which is misleading since only a small part of Rach's overall style was influential although he is my favorite composer/pianist. How do I describe this playing style?
You're thinking like a bad pop pianist; you have one trick and can apply it to everything. It's a severely limited and confining view of musicianship and you should abandon it as soon as you possibly can, even if you have no pretensions of being a classical musician.
you have one trick and can apply it to everything. It's a severely limited and confining view of musicianship and you should abandon it as soon as you possibly can, even if you have no pretensions of being a classical musician.
I've been tossing around in my brain what you stated above. Are you discouraging playing by ear? Because improvisation & playing by ear involves a lot of reapplied "tricks" and I understand that may be contrary to what's taught in classical musicianship.
Kohler and Campbell skg-600s 5'9 grand (newly acquired) I'm not a tech but ambitiously learning out of necessity since I live in the middle of nowhere and getting a tech to come out here for minor things (that I could and want to learn to do myself) is prohibitively expensive.
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