Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Any advice for setting up a Digital Audio Workstation DAW?

Hello.

In order to get a lot more voices for my Kawai MP10, as well as for recording & mixing tracks (since something like a Yamaha Motif, or Roland Fantom workstation are out of reach) I am considering, or leaning towards, purchasing Avid's Pro Tools 10 (DAW software) as well as an appropriate audio interface (hardware to go from analog to digital signals). As I understand it, a correct match here with the DAW software, as well as with the computer hardware platform, will help avoid latency problems.

The Kawai MP10 does have a USB to host port, however after looking through the hardcopy MP10 documentation, I do not know what version of USB (1.0, 2.0, or 3.0) my MP10 came with. The version was not listed in the documentation, or near the port itself.

The hardware platform, that I will be installing the DAW software on, is an intel i7 3.4 GHz desktop PC with 8GB of RAM; with two USB 3.0 ports; with a NVIDIA GeForce graphics card; with a 1 TB sata hdd.

From what I have read, the USB 3.0 is full duplex and its bandwidth is about 4.8 Gbps, which again from what I have read is faster than a Firewire port.


Does anyone have any experiences in setting up a DAW?

And/or does anyone have any experience/expertise with the following:


- DAW software (Avid Pro Tools 10 and/or others)?

- correctly matching the audio interface with the DAW software?

- implementing DAW virtual instrument plug-ins?


Have any Kawai MP10 owners done something similar?


Thank you for your input.
WJS.


Addendum: For others, who may be starting out like me, I found some good introduction links (below):

5 Steps To Building Your DAW (thanks to sweetwater.com)

An Introduction to MIDI (by the MIDI Manufactures Association)

The 15 best DAW software apps in the world today (musicradar.com October 2012)

I've never set up a DAW. But I do use virtual instruments (piano libraries).

Your computer is way more than adequate.

The USB speed is not relevant. The data transfer rates required for sending MIDI data from piano to computer are extremely low.

If you use an external USB-attached sound card, the data rates (computer to sound card) are higher, but still very low compared to USB's capability. So no worries there.

The version of USB won't matter at all. Just plug in, install the driver (if any), and go.

Wippen,

What you are asking is fairly common among users here, so I'm sure most of us have experience in one way or the other with your current situation.

First of all, when using a DAW you have two different aspects of it, which fall into two different realms.

MIDI Implementation:
- Used to record data of your performance (not audio!)
- Used to control the Virtual Instruments in your computer

Audio Implementation:
- Used to record audio of different instruments, including, but not limited to, your DP
- Used to hear what is being produced inside the DAW.

So... the MP10 is both a controller for the DAW as well as a tone generator. The audio interface is both a A/D interface for IN analog sounds (such as a guitar, or microphone, or the MP10) as well as a D/A converter for outputting sound to your speakers, monitors, or, for instance, back to the DP to be heard inside the DP internal speakers (in which case the MP10 would have a third role of being the sound output of the entire setup).

With that in mind... consider this:
- Midi data is very slim. It has note on, key velocity, note off info, and pedal on, pedal off info... not much more (special messages to control Effects or tones, but they are sent very rarely).
So, even USB 1.0 had enough bandwidth to manage all the info a MIDI data throughput could carry. So you need not worry about that, just think of it as a very efficient communication system between the MP10 and the computer.

That data of you playing in the keyboard is processed (very little process if any at all!) by the DAW and then either recorded, or re-distributed to a virtual instrument. At this point, the MP10's work is done as is the USB Midi's work. From now on, its your computer the one doing the crunching of numbers. That requires fast processors, lots of RAM, fast Hard Drives and a good audio interface. This was a problem 5 or 7 years ago. Now a days, most systems handle every part of this procedure nicely, and your system specs are very, very good! So you need not worry.

The part you will need to learn a bit about is your DAW. There are several key aspects of setting up a DAW:
- You need to configure the MIDI input (and output) devices.
- You need to configure the Audio input and Output ports (and probably name them so that they are more intuitive to you, or use the default ones)
- You need to configure the output ports and match the output sound to your output monitors, headphones, speakers, etc.

If you are going to use the DPs onboard sounds, the most common setup is a MIDI loop:
- The actual playing of keys on the DP does not produce any sound (usually called Local OFF, not sure about Kawai's naming system), instead, you are inputting those notes to the DAW and the DAW is sending them back to the DP. That sent back notes actually trigger the DPs sounds.

This has many advantages.
- You can change the sound from within the DAW, and record that Program Change so future opening that project will use the correct sound.
- You can re-route that sound to use a Virtual Instrument
- You have to change less the settings for DAW playback.
The only donwside is that you need the DAW open and configured in order to hear sound. Most modern DPs auto-detect if the loop is present and turn the local ON or OFF automatically, but I'm unsure how Kawai manages this.

Now, into the Analog realm:
- If your audio interface is USB, then the speed of THAT connection is really critical. USB 1.0 will be good for stereo sounds and not much more. Any type of multi-track input and such requires at least USB 2.0.
- If you are using external monitors, perhaps its better to rout everything through the interface (I/Os permitting): connect the DP audio OUT to the interface INs and use the external monitors.

This can get really long really fast, I believe that addressing individual aspects of your needs and questions would be easier than addressing the entire DAW+DP+Computer universe!

Hope this helps a bit,
Rafa.
edit: I started writing before Mac's answer, so please forgive any duplicate info.

Thanks MacMacMac.

With regards to the virtual instruments (piano libraries) that you mentioned, did you purchase or download some free virtual instruments?

Great post Rafa!

Yes, you should be a staff writer for PW, Rafa.

And, since someone suggested in another post that this subject should be available as a sticky thread, perhaps you might be willing to develop something?

It might help get questions answered before they're asked ... again and again and again. Such how-to threads are common on other boards, but they're not at PW.

Opinions?

Wow.

A lot of good info. that I certainly was not aware of. Thanks so much. I will certainly have to dig into it.


Do you have any feel/preference for make & version of any particular DAW software package(s)?

This could have some minor drawbacks with Kawais MIDI implementation: the MIDI input is not quite equivalent with DP's onBoard MIDI synthesis, SympatheticResonance is not present with MIDI in.

Deleted

Not on the CA51, no.
However WJS's MP10 (and other modern Kawai instruments) should implement this correctly - i.e. string resonance is applied when playing MIDI.

Cheers,
James
x

I am sure you are right.

I'll check into the Steinberg Cubase 7 package.

Thanks.

Hi,

I have experience with ProTools 7 LE, Cubase 3 and Reaper 4 (which is the one I use now).

Out of those, for a first dive into the DAW world I recommend you start with Reaper, mainly because you can download the full, unrestricted version for a 30day trial and the private license is comparatively cheap to obtain if you decide to stick with it.

My personal experience with ProTools was that it was the most finicky to setup, but I liked the workflow a lot when I eventually got it to work properly on my PC.
I later switched to Cubase because I wanted to work with more than 24 audio tracks in a project, but never really got into its workflow. It felt somewhat unintuitive to me, and like it took me too many clicks to achieve certain tasks. Your mileage may vary!

With Reaper I am currently really happy. But as stated before by others, that's totally a personal preference thing and also depends on what you use the DAW for.

Good luck!

Thank you Aeons Holle for sharing your insight into DAW.

My local "Guitar Center" (guitarcenter.com) has been pushing Avid Pro Tools 10, but of course they may. or may not have an incentive for doing that.

Yours is the second reference to Reaper, so I will check that out.

Thank you.

To be honest, they all do the same thing, most of us just fall into using one because it came bundled with a piece of hardware they bought or because a friend gave them a hacked copy. It's just a matter of practice and familiarity.

I've heard people say that Cubase is "unintuitive", but I think that is a repeated myth to a large degree - people just say it because people say it. I've got a computer with Reaper, Protools, Logic and Cubase on it - and they are all more or less the same to deal with. The difficulties arise when we get rusty in our use of any particular one of them. The one you use the most will seem the most intuitive. I have used Cubase the most of those 4 suites and lo and behold, it is the most intuitive for me! I'd say go with what most of your music-making friends are using for the simple fact that you will have more assistance around you - and that's honestly half the battle when you are first getting started with DAWs.

That makes sense.

Thanks.

Lots of good thoughts and advice from ando there.
Regarding the "repeated myth" I'd just like to add that in my case, I have actually used Cubase the most as well so far, but still liked it the least. But if I stick with Reaper for a few more years it will obviously overtake Cubase in overall time of usage. So I think it might also be the other way round than ando says - the DAW you find the most intuitive you will use the most in the end!

While all DAWs do indeed the same things, most do them a bit differently from each other, which in the end leads to different people preferring different DAWs. For example the guitarist of my current band who produced our last album works with Cubase - when we recorded my parts at his homestudio I quickly realized that he has a different approach to recording than me, and he seemed to get along with Cubase very well.
As I said, it's personal preference and your mileage may vary.

Good point, I suppose it can go both ways - the one you use the most is the one that frustrates you the most because recording can be frustrating! There are certain processes and procedures that will, by definition, have to exist somewhere out of sight in a series of menus somewhere. DAW software is so damn powerful these days the sheer number of options is bewildering. Maybe the level of intuitiveness relates to the functions people use most and how easily accessible they are. As you say, they all present the same features in a different way so depending on how you think, maybe some software appeals more than others. I still think recent versions of Cubase are just as efficient as Protools, and in some cases, moreso. The early versions of Cubase were certainly very clunky indeed - and that reputation seems to have followed them to the present day. I do believe it is vastly overstated at this point though.

Yes, that may well be the case.
As I stated in my first post I used Cubase 3 back then, and for sure there will have been many changes for the better until version 7.
Just as Reaper 4 surely has come a long way since the early versions.

So indeed my experience regarding Cubase should be taken with a grain of salt.
But in any event, my main reason for recommending Reaper is their unlimited trial version and cheap license. Due to this, it basically just doesn't hurt to try this one first to gain some experience with DAWs.

Cubase has midi editing down IMO. After working with that nifty context menu on the right mouse button, cutting and glueing together midi parts like it was childs play, it's really hard to go to other DAW's. Piano roll is excellent too.

But I can say here that Ableton is a lot more intuitive for pretty much anything else. It's just so much easier and more logical to create a track with a VST connected by just dragging the VST into the work space. Cubase has that rather odd VST instruments menu and everything needs to be routed around, it's not intuitive at all. Of course Cubase also has a lot more mixing possibilities so I guess this can be forgiven.

I don't know why we even use the word "intuitive". We aren't using intuition, we are using knowledge, and we are talking about ease of use. None of it responds to vagueness of thought. You still have to understand the various things a DAW does on a conceptual level. You have to understand routing, mixing, editing, layouts etc.etc. It's just that some features require more or less steps to accomplish them depending on the program being used. There are strong points with all of them - that's why they exist and sell well enough to keep going.