Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
149 registered (alfredo capurso, Abby Pianoman, accordeur, albumblatter, Agfinguy, ADWyatt, 40 invisible), 1620 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1993813 - 12/02/12 06:23 PM LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt
RollingTenths Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 19
Loc: Minnesota


I have some trouble playing this left hand sequence. It's like the weight of my hand after the first 3 arpeggio notes and the location of the F# black key prevents me from playing it with speed. I currently finger it 1-2-5 1-2-3-4. I can play it no problem if the F# were F-natural (a white key), but since the F# black key is up there it's hard to reach and it takes a moment.

When I try to play fast, either there's a short pause between the G to F# (screwing up the rhythm), or I crush the E-flat key with my 2 while trying to hit the E (screwing up the tune), or the F# is super loud because I'm trying to play faster and my hand is so stiff (which screws up the musicality)

This passage is from the 9th measure of Bach's Partita 5, 1st movement (Preambul). I've been working on this movement for the past few months and can play the first half of it with good speed and musicality, except for that short sequence.

Any practice tips?

Thanks.
_________________________
-"RollingTenths words of wisdom"

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#1993821 - 12/02/12 06:53 PM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: RollingTenths]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Practice playing the 2nd G (3rd note) and F# at the same time, this will help you relocate your thumb more quickly.

So the notes will be G, D, G&F#, E, D, C#.

To avoid hitting the Eb, do the same with the F# and E. This will insure that while your thumb reaches for the F# your 2nd finger will also be moving for the right note pre-emptively.

So the notes will be G, D, G, F#&E, D, C#.

This stuff is so hard to explain in text lol.


Edited by debrucey (12/02/12 06:53 PM)

Top
#1993853 - 12/02/12 08:16 PM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: RollingTenths]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18617
Loc: Victoria, BC
I find it easier to play the F-sharp with 2, rather than have to shift my hand from and outer position with the thumb on G, then move my hand inwards to hit the F-sharp with the thumb. For me, it's also more accurate that way.

My fingering would be : 1, 2, 5, 2, 1, 2, 3.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#1993938 - 12/03/12 12:27 AM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: RollingTenths]
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 947
Loc: California
I use 125 1234. I find it works OK if I play the first three notes with the hand well in toward the black keys instead of at the edge of the whites.

Top
#1994084 - 12/03/12 11:16 AM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: RollingTenths]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5444
Loc: Philadelphia
Everyone here has probably already answered the question about this passage. I'll add some possible causes you may want to check out, but the other posts are dead-on.

Like Ferdinand and Bruce said, you are feeling this most-likely because your hand is too far out on the keys. That means you have to "reach" in to hit the F#. I'm going to add another possible symptom here: stretching. Due to the reaching issue, you may be holding onto the keys too long, and stretching your hand out to "muscle" the next note.

This could have a lot to do with why you miss the E, and maybe not so much the F#. Your hand never gets completely to the right to play the four down notes. It stays to the left, where you just played the G, and now you're reaching to get up to the F#. Debrucey's exercise is one way to check for this hand position issue and combat it.


Other possible symptoms you may want to check for: a low wrist. If your hand is getting well into the black key area, you could be missing the E because of a low wrist. You're playing 1-2-5 on the G-D-G, and if you truly are in the black key area, you'll have to get your 2 over the Eb to play the E. A low wrist will hinder this.

Also, twisting. If you're truly outside the black key area, you could be twisting to get from the low G to the F#. This would cause you to miss the E also.

These are the "major" issues that are pretty visible and easier to check. Give it a shot and let us know if it doesn't improve your passage.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1994960 - 12/05/12 10:21 AM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: BruceD]
Forrest Halford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 479
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
This little thread has so much of value in practicing method it boggles the mind. I would use BruceD's fingering and apply Debrucey's practice method while remaining very aware of what the hand is 'up to' as per Derulux's observational advice.

I will add - get the two practice snippets (below) to speed (and faster) as quickly as possible, and once those motions feel correct to your mind and your hand and your ears, THEN practice THOSE motions slowly (the ones that worked well at speed)

snippet one in this instance the low G (5th finger) to the f#/e (2nd & thumb, played together)

stop on the f#/e and relax the hand completely.

snippet two is the f#/e (2nd and thumb, played together) and then d/c# (2nd & 3rd fingers, played together) as fast as possible and pianissimo.

Stop on the d/e and relax the hand completely.

If the mind is tired or the hand is tired... STOP and do something else.

Continuing to practice with a tired hand or mind will only cause you to practice and reinforce in the hand(s) those things that won't work. (I really should follow my own advice with this... but hey, do as I say, not as I do) :-)

as always, have fun!

Forrest


Originally Posted By: BruceD
I find it easier to play the F-sharp with 2, rather than have to shift my hand from and outer position with the thumb on G, then move my hand inwards to hit the F-sharp with the thumb. For me, it's also more accurate that way.

My fingering would be : 1, 2, 5, 2, 1, 2, 3.

Regards,
_________________________
Mozart K. 332
Bach 866
Schumann Op. 15

Top
#1994974 - 12/05/12 10:41 AM Re: LH from Bach Partita 5, 1st mvmt [Re: RollingTenths]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I prefer the OP's fingering, but either is fine.

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
too funny . . .
by Michael Sayers
03/29/15 12:59 PM
The Kawai CA. Which road do I take?
by ADWyatt
03/29/15 12:30 PM
Latency on SONAR X1 LE
by EddieK
03/29/15 11:50 AM
Cubase 1.0.7 F and G clef, not showing at the same time
by ster100
03/29/15 11:43 AM
*That* chord in Chopin's prelude in e minor
by Lapinou
03/29/15 10:49 AM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,696 Registered Members
43 Forums
162,805 Topics
2,389,802 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission