Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum How to guide an 8 yrs old during practice?

I am a parent and need advice.
I don't play piano, but I can read notes. I sat through every single lesson (30'/wk) with my son and his teacher as well as daily practice (30'). I tried to learn the piece first, slowly, at least have a feel for what he is going to practice, then I help to correct him. He has advanced much over the past 1 and 1/2 years. The last 3 months, I have stopped all that but his teacher and I communicate after every lesson, and I do check in with him at the end of his practice. I notice that he just tried to hit the right keys, no attention to the dynamic, rush through the song, and it takes him much much longer time to master the song. "Master" by all means is just to get a pass from the teacher since it has been so long working on that piece. I got upset, extend his practice time to 1hr occasionally. I told him my expectation is that he diligently practice for 30' daily, maybe 1 or 2 phrases, but make it good, no rush. Still, it's hit and miss. I don't want to babysit him for years to come. He doesn't love piano to death :-Đ, no, but he agrees to try this for 3 years, then he is free to pick up any other musical instrument. I want his 3 years with piano to be fun, maybe he turns to love it. His teacher said he has some talent, and I want to nourish it. Any advice? Thanks.

I don't your son, of course, but for anyone to do something, it has to be balanced with everything else.

Let me explain. If I get up in the morning and practice piano for 30 minuits and rush off to school and play soccer, then into school and then whatever at lunch and back to school till school ends and then a pickup basketball game with friends after school, the then comes home for dinner and pracing the piano will be awesome because he had an awesome day.


If however you son wakes up and practices the piano, goes to school, doesn't do much, comes and practices for a few hours on the piano and then goes to bed. In version 1 he has lots to enjoy as an 8 year old including playing the piano.

In version 2 he loves playing the plano, goes to school, comes home plays more piano. All you son knows is playing the pliano and has nothing else to compare it to.

These are just examples. They only way each of us likes or enjoys anything else is by comparing it to everything else.

If your son was working in a coal mine from the age of 12 to 20, he could easily tell you how much he used to enjoy playing the piano.

There are people telling you on the newsgroup daily that they USED play the piano and quit - WISHED they didn't quit. Why that happened? Well, millions of reasons, but nothing is a loss if you don't enjoy it, but if you lose something and then realized you loved it, then it is a real loss, a painful loss. So your son like millions of kids don't know what an adult knows because he has only lived only 8 years. You have probably lived 20 or 30 years and I have lived 60 plus years. We as adults know what loss is in every sense of the word.

I know nothing about kids. One question you might ask a kid randomly is what did you enjoy doing today. If after a week he never mentions anything about piano playing, it doesn't mean he doesn't love playing the piano but it will be interesting what his answers are.

When I was 58 two guys at work and I were having lunch and the two guys grew up in the same neigbourhood, and they said they played half court basketball every summer. I had never played baskball and I asked them if they would teach me if I let me buy lunch or beers as the case may be. They said yes.
They would teach me every sunday for a few weeks for an hour. All I could talk about to everybody who would listen is about baskeball. Here I am at 58 play basketball 4 times a week at a community center. After a game I couldn't get to sleep I was so excited about play basketball. And you know at 58, I would NOT be very good at all, but I was the best I could be.

It is an example of what we like by what we talk about. Your huband may only talk about golf even though he does a 100 different things in a day but he loves golf. So you can see how you can learn what people love, they talk about it all the time.

I post here all the time about playing the piano because I love piano.

Never use piano practice as punishment.

Well said.

Don't get upset. You have done well, and so has he. I think you need to take a step back here. Don't try to teach (you have a teacher for that). Just reward him for practising by giving him your attention, and occasionally you can remind him what the teacher said. We all need to make mistake when we practice. It would drive me nuts if someone corrected me between lessons.

You can also remind him how much he has already progressed, and how much you enjoy his playing. Just keep it positive.

30 min practice is fine at that age.

I am wondering whether at this point his teacher should give guidance on how to practice, since he is now working independently. That is an art in itself, and a very valuable one.

I agree. This is also why I try not to have the parent too involved in the process early on. Just enough to make sure the child knows their assignment and practices. Beyond that, telling them they're making a mistake, etc. , they are greatly discouraged to do. That way the transition to independence isn't as "painful".

Be patient, just encourage and complement your son on the things he's doing well. You can consult with the teacher - out of earshot from your child - if you notice he's doing something wrong, but chances are your teacher will hear it and correct it during the lesson anyway.

Part of this whole independence thing has to do with teaching the parent how to let go

I’d like to make several points from a parent’s point of view: 1) Could it be that his independent study skills have not been developed well, because you spoon-fed him for so long? 2) If this is the case, he will need more time to gradually develop his study skills, and for now, his progress will be slow and it’s normal. 3) The progress that he made when you babied him for every step of the way was the “inflated” one and his progress these days is real. So you shouldn’t be upset. 4) Don’t punish him by making him do more practice. You are helping him associate piano with punishment. 5) I find it odd to ask the kid to commit three years on something he has not enough knowledge about—how much effort, how much frustration, what potential reward, what other activities he may miss. How many grown-ups are willing to commit three years before we know quite well what we are committed to? 6) You can leave it to the teacher to help him learn how to practice. This should be a very important part of lessons. 7) I wouldn’t think too much about “his teacher says he has some talent”. For the vast majority of piano students who will not become professionals, talent can be used to learn music faster and better and make the experience more enjoyable. But that’s pretty much it. If the “talent” becomes a burden and makes the learning experience less enjoyable, it’s really not worth it.

When I begged my parents for lessons when I was 5, they waited a bit to make sure I really wanted it. But when they signed me up for lessons, I had to agree to take lessons for 10 years. It wasn't always great, in fact, it was really rough-going for me to practice and didn't do as much as I should have. But I'm so glad my parents made me keep my word. I learned a lot from that alone.

I’m sure it could seem that it worked out for some people. But I wonder, for every case such prearranged commitment that has worked, how many backfired and made the kids hate piano or music?

Also note that you “begged” for piano lessons, so everyone’s predisposition is different. I doubt all the piano students are learning piano because they “begged” for it, most probably didn’t. Maybe you would stick to it anyways if your parents didn’t require the 10 years. Just a thought. Two things that happened together may not be cause and effect at all, they could have merely happened together.

I personally find it odd to ask little kids to commit to something that they don’t know about. It’s just my personal opinion. I have kids who love music and other worthwhile activities and are very dedicated to learning. We never make them promise how long they will stick to anything. I think the real motivation comes from discovering the beauty of these activities and want to learn. Luckily for me and for them, this approach works.

My daughter has been playing the same length of time and one thing I've noticed is the music is longer and more difficult. Instead of getting 3 stars and 3 new pieces each week, it might take 3 weeks for her teacher to be happy with a piece. So don't judge your son by the number of stickers he earns.

Also you made your son pledge to keep a hobby for almost a third of his entire life. That isn't really fair is it? If you want him to play because of your own agenda then make it so, but don't extract a promise like that from a child. Tell tell him the truth - he is taking piano until you decide he can quit.

I am not sure how he practices, but my daughter practices with more energy if I am in the room. I can be reading a book, working on a project etc, but if I say, I really liked that last bit, she will glow a little and try harder. Kids don't like being secluded in a room away from family activity. Sure sometimes it is necessary, but if practice is enjoyable it doesn't feel like punishment.

Thanks for your comments and feedbacks. I need to reflect on myself.
1. I have been babysitting him for too long. I counted with him, sang with him, went over every measure with him. I need to step back and accept the slow progress as it should be in the beginning.
2. I have never thought about the 3 year promise is unfair to a child. I see kids around me try something for a short while and quit, so I thought by making a commitment you will eventually find the beauty of doing it, but maybe I ruin it somehow in the process by being too harsh.
3. I rewinded in my mind the practice last night. You are right, I didn't even said a nice thing. All I did was to point to him what needs to improve.
4. The piano room is actually the formal living room, so I normall does not present there, but he can see me in the kitchen from that room. And of course, his music travels throughout the house, no door.
4. Piano practice is everyday. Swimming is every other day. I am also tutoring him at home on math and writing subjects for like 30' M-Thurs. Sun is either golf in the summer or ski in the winter. He is free to do whatever but piano practice is a must on Fri-Sat.
5. His teacher actually likes to have parents involved as he sees the benefit of having a parents who care and cheer along the way, but he didn't know I was pushing... a bit... ok, a bit much :-)

Concun, why is it important to you that your son study the piano? The answers may help you decide how to proceed.

Do you as a parent devote "x" number of minutes to art appreciation. For instance, do you set aside 20 minutes each day to listen to piano music and ponder its beauty? or do you try your hand at painting?

In my opinion, parents have to model how to live. If you spend most of your time rushing around being busy, your children will learn that life is about rushing around being busy. It will be hard for them to slow down. And piano is all about slowing down and creating something where there is nothing.

P.S. I like the 58 year old guy's enthusiasm for basketball in an earlier response.

I don't think the 3 year commitment is bad, in all honesty. Especially since he agreed to it. Having your child learn to make long commitments and keep his word is a great lesson that I think is not often taught these days. I think the key is that the child agrees to it, even if they don't really know what that commitment means. No one really does until they do it, right?

A child will agree to anything with a parent pressuring/guilting them.

I just think that the scope of 3 years is too long to extract a verbal contract with an 8 year old. And I think too that if the parent's reason is to have the child learn about music, and that is something you require your kids to learn, the parent should just stand on their own two feet and make the decision.

You don't tell a 2nd grader - if you don't like school in three years you can quit. You have that expectation and some mornings might be harder than others but the child knows there are some things a parent requires. Some things are non negotiable.

I think it is all a power play when the parent hurls back at the child when they are resisting - You agreed to play for three years, go practice.

Agree. Only informed decisions are meaningful, therefore I wouldn't hold a child's decision the same way as an adult's decision, because kids often agree to something without understanding the consequences. But of course, to each his/her own...

I would insist that my children do something worthwhile, but I would not assume that my children have the same idea as I do about what is worthwhile. Insisting on sticking to something that parents choose for them will limit the time that they have to explore what they want to choose. My kids have tried many activities over the years, have given up a lot after a few months or one or two years. But they each have figured out what they are really passionate about, and they are doing these and plan to do these for many years to come not because I ask them to, but because these things are meaningful to them. Not giving them the freedom to quit means that they also don't have the freedom to choose. There are things that they choose that I didn't quite appreciate (such as chess), but with time I have understand a lot more the beauty of it and I'm glad that I allowed them to choose.

Then again, to each his own... But I also agree with MaggieGirl here. If it's indeed the parent's decision and the kid has no choice, it's fine, but just tell the kid the truth.

We listen to music after dinner and bedtime, take turn to pick the music for family. We do not have tv cable so movies/shows are for weekends via netflix. We also go to piano concert or any other musical concert that the kids like to go twice a year. My kids can watch Yanni for hours on youtube rather than Justin Beiber, though nothing is wrong with Justin.
In the past till 3 months ago, since I did practice with him, we were in it together. He likes that. However, I saw him dependent on me more and more like not paying attention during lesson because he knows I took note and will tell him exactly what to look for in a piece. That's when I decided to step back.
Last night practice, occasionally I came over to praise him, and chose my words to point out area for improvement. He didn't progress much but I let him go after 30'. He seemed in much better mood. This morning, he is off school and actually sat down to play a random song.
Why I insist on him practicing everyday? I found that if he takes break for just one day, he struggles more the next practice. I know I am kinda stubborn, I believe that once you pick on doing certain things, you should try to achieve your goal, and we don't set high goal :-Đ His and my goal in the beginning is not to have him become a pianist, but to have him learn to read music, learn to play the instrument, learn to listen and appreciate the music, be able to comfortably play a song, so I thought 3 years would be long enough to do all that. After 3 years, if he likes to pick up drawing, other instrument, he is free to do so, but he will have to try for an acceptable period. I do take the teacher's feedback in my consideration. I don't want to make my child learning experience miserable, so I posted here
I will ask him about the 3 year commitment again and see what he says. He did mention to me the other day that he would like to try soccer like his cousin, so I will plan to take him to a few try-out sessions, and after that, he will have to make a decision to either commit for at least 1 year or not.

Concun, by your account you were very involved in your child's practicing in the way you directed it. Your child needs to learn how to practice on his own. It may be in a manner that is different than what you have been doing. You should involve his teacher in this, and ask his teacher to give him guidance in this. His teacher may have things for you to do and not do while your son transitions into independent practicing.

Thanks. I will remember to ask the teacher next week. I forgot when I saw him today.

I have an 8 year old too.

My son had 3 teachers now (for the reasons beyond our control). I asked all of them the same question, none of them gave me specific instructions. Virtually they all just said "encourage him to practice".

I did help(teach) him measure by measure when he started. Yes, at the end he was able to play the song, but both of us were frustrated at the end, and I wouldn't call it a pleasure.

I asked myself if any of the parents would want me to help (teach) their kids to practice piano? If not, I probably shouldn't do that to my son either. And I don't think the teachers would appreciated me to help him technically, which is unlikely to be consistent with the teacher.

Now when my son practices, I am in the same room (I have to, my son will never want to be in a room alone for some reason, day or night). I do need to remind him to practice, and I do need to remind him to keep focus. I know there are 8 year olds would practice on their own, unfortunately mine is not one of them. But I stopped giving him technical advices even if he asked, even if I really wanted to say something, since it probably will lead to an argument. He was not really asking for critics, he just wanted some praise. I do recognize his effort and new developments. He sometimes insist me to give him a score, if I don't think it is good, I just tell him he wouldn't want to hear it.

Yes, kids need to learn math, and would be great to learn music. However, the content of the math they learn today and the songs they learn today is not as import as learning the ability to learn. Actually that is true all the way to college level. The knowledge we learn at college level is not enough for most of work anyways (unless you include Sears). The ability to learn, (which includes logical thinking, memorization techniques, passion and self control) is far more important than any of the actual knowledge learned in any school. Any you will forget many of the things you learn anyways. Be honest, how many of us still memorize the Periodic Table? But this is not a problem (after your last Chemistry exam)

Heavily supervised students may lost the opportunity to develop the learning skills. Private school students have a higher chance to drop out college at the first year.

Parents should provide love, safety, be role models on self control, emotion expression, cultivate life long learning habit and skills, and provide space for them to grow.

For specific subjects, we have schools.