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Topic Options
#1993610 - 12/02/12 10:55 AM Knuckle replacement
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Soon I'll be working on an 80-year old grand action that is amazingly clean, and that was hardly played through the years. There is absolutely no reason to replace hammers, shanks, or flanges. Hammers sound great and just need reshaping. Flange pinning is already close to where I want it; will be easy to optimize. Shanks are straight, and only a few need minor traveling. Somehow the wood is still a fairly light color.

I would like to replace the knuckles, though, so I can get the best regulation possible.

Any suggestions or tips for this work? How do you prepare the shanks for knuckle removal? I'm thinking warm water w/ a bit of wallpaper remover, and maybe some heat via a soldering iron if necessary, but wonder if the slit in the shanks might change dimension as the wood dries, complicating the fitting of the new knuckles. I will of course be using hot hide glue to install the new parts, and I also want opinions on nap direction, which seems to be almost evenly divided as I peruse older posts on that subject. (My instinct says put the buckskin nap in the same direction as the jack pushing up on the knuckle to minimize resistance, which I believe is the more "European" approach.) Any thoughts appreciated.
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Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

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#1993633 - 12/02/12 12:23 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Knuckles can be removed - not not. Some techs saw off the old knuckles and cut a new slot on a table saw with thin blade (using a jig of course). This is also the best way for re-positioning knuckles if needed.
Old knuckles can be removed without any heat or moisture if the glue is old and brittle. Cut/break away the old glue collar and pry/lift/work the knuckles out with a pair of knuckle removing pliers. Proceed methodically to avoid splitting shanks.
Sometimes the new knuckle cores are too thick for the old slot. In that case, squeeze the core in a table vise before installation, as soon as the glue moisture hits it, it will expand again, ensuring a tight fit.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1993658 - 12/02/12 01:24 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 471
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Let me know if you're interested in re-positioning the knuckles, I have a jig. I also have some knuckle-removing pliers if you want to borrow them. Assuming you'll return them smile
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#1993673 - 12/02/12 01:55 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: Supply]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Supply
Knuckles can be removed - not not. Some techs saw off the old knuckles and cut a new slot on a table saw with thin blade (using a jig of course). This is also the best way for re-positioning knuckles if needed.

Assuming what remains in the wood is secure enough, if the saw line for the new knuckles have to be done inclueding a part of the old core, I would not trust the solidity of the whole assembly.

For sure the best knuckles are thicker than the old ones, very often, but what is more annoying is that they may be taller (particularely on Schwander shanks)
Not ideal for repetion, nor for the stability of the roller in time (ofen I have seen knuckles bended or hallf unglued due to the not deep enough recess, plus too large overcentering (Older Bechsteins with Schwander action)

as the wood of the core is hard when compressed it may break apart, you did not notice that ? (I tried that compressing without much success )

I prefer opening the shank a little more .

I'd like to see how looks that jig to work the shank . I have seen some designs in old issues of the PTG Journal, but I dont really remind how they where.

Generally, what bothers me with old shanks is that the bushing cloth is too dry and non resilient to allow for a good consistent repinning.

Changing the cloth for all shanks is possible indeed, a little time consuming, a little tricky , good cloth is necessary. at that point I generally decide that new shanks will be a better option. If the heads are kept (refelted or just sanded) sure new cloth for the centers may be an option
(pinning also is to be done with a support so the center is square to the shank - less papering... long 60 cm centers is what ABel uses if you ask for rebushing/centering job, better consistency than with small centers , but I believe those centers are not sold in USA.

Old pianos had smooth knuckles, with anice thick leather and not too hard underfelt.

I heard of methods to repair the shape (impregnation, probably, reinforcing)
Sanding the leather is possible, also, if dirty, so a "new" nap is made.


Problem with old actions that did not play is that when they are used the parts show their age, centers, cloths dont stay neat and clean under use , in my experience. Old cloth was sometime excellent, but when the fiber is dry all the little scales that allow the felt to hold together are brittle and fall in dust... That said I have met strange incredible bushing cloth, very springy and that did not wear much because of that.



Edited by Kamin (12/02/12 02:00 PM)
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1993837 - 12/02/12 07:37 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: James Carney
Soon I'll be working on an 80-year old grand action that is amazingly clean, and that was hardly played through the years. There is absolutely no reason to replace hammers, shanks, or flanges. Hammers sound great and just need reshaping. Flange pinning is already close to where I want it; will be easy to optimize. Shanks are straight, and only a few need minor traveling. Somehow the wood is still a fairly light color.

I would like to replace the knuckles, though, so I can get the best regulation possible.

Any suggestions or tips for this work? How do you prepare the shanks for knuckle removal? I'm thinking warm water w/ a bit of wallpaper remover, and maybe some heat via a soldering iron if necessary, but wonder if the slit in the shanks might change dimension as the wood dries, complicating the fitting of the new knuckles. I will of course be using hot hide glue to install the new parts, and I also want opinions on nap direction, which seems to be almost evenly divided as I peruse older posts on that subject. (My instinct says put the buckskin nap in the same direction as the jack pushing up on the knuckle to minimize resistance, which I believe is the more "European" approach.) Any thoughts appreciated.



I use knuckle removing pliers which just snap the knuckle out of the joint. Works very well.

However, I find the process of gluing in knuckles by hand to be less uniform than what is done in the factory. It can be done, but in most cases I would question why. Now that WNG shanks/flanges are available, I'd be inclined to replace anything wood.

Just because hammers have lots of felt, doesn't necessarily mean that they work really well (or even ever did).

I believe it is a rare case where simply replacing knuckles is really the best choice. Your situation may be one . . .
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#1993845 - 12/02/12 07:50 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
It is possible to remove the knuckles without removing the shank assemblies from the action, but you will need to be careful not to damage the shank/flange centers. Use soldering pliers to heat the sides of the knuckles and then pry them off. Be careful to not scorch anything. There are also knuckle extracting pliers... never used them before, so I can't comment on how well they'd work. But generally, I agree with the post immediately above mine.
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B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#1993940 - 12/03/12 12:41 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21826
Loc: Oakland
I use a knife to cut the glue loose from the bottom of the shank, and then diagonal cutters to lever the knuckle out from one side, and then the other, or I use a bandsaw. But I think the benefits of knuckle replacement are overstated.
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Semipro Tech

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#1993984 - 12/03/12 05:05 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Chris Leslie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 720
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
I have peeled off the old worn knuckle leather and glued a wrapper of new leather to a whole set of shanks in a 100yo grand, then regulated. The piano still works fine when I have revisited.
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Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

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#1993990 - 12/03/12 06:12 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: BDB]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: BDB
I use a knife to cut the glue loose from the bottom of the shank, and then diagonal cutters to lever the knuckle out from one side, and then the other, or I use a bandsaw. But I think the benefits of knuckle replacement are overstated.

when you compress the wooden core, often the glue joint break apart. strong pliers are better to do that I have cutting pliers with multiplication of strenght, filed them so they crush the wood without effort

I also made a support gig with a sort of blade that can be tapped with a hammer, works well but after some occasional breakage I stopped using it (the jig under the shank must be really flat and hard enough, with a recess to receive the knuckle).
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1993991 - 12/03/12 06:13 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1228
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: James Carney
Soon I'll be working on an 80-year old grand action that is amazingly clean, and that was hardly played through the years. There is absolutely no reason to replace hammers, shanks, or flanges. Hammers sound great and just need reshaping. Flange pinning is already close to where I want it; will be easy to optimize. Shanks are straight, and only a few need minor traveling. Somehow the wood is still a fairly light color.

I would like to replace the knuckles, though, so I can get the best regulation possible.


Greetings,
If the knuckles need replacement, how about the back-checks? If the knuckles are not worn, why replace? A quick swipe with 320 paper will usually put them in proper shape for any regulation that an 80 year old action could justify, and , 80 year old hammer felt is not going to behave like new, so be prepared for rapid wear if the piano suddenly starts getting used a lot.
Don't remove the knuckles with the flanges tight, you will damage the pinning, at least, on some of them. Use the proper pliers, or make your own, and just make sure the nap is all going the same direction. I would recommend Escaine over leather, as it is more durable and quieter.
Regards,

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#1993992 - 12/03/12 06:17 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: Chris Leslie]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Chris Leslie
I have peeled off the old worn knuckle leather and glued a wrapper of new leather to a whole set of shanks in a 100yo grand, then regulated. The piano still works fine when I have revisited.


did you make clamps with PVC tube ? the shape is obtained by the under felt, so on old parts I am unsure it can be done well as the center compress in time more than the edges
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1994018 - 12/03/12 07:46 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2180
Loc: Maine
I've used wool yarn pulled through the bearing area of old knuckles when they are compressed slightly. Depending on the condition of the knuckles, that's often enough to get many years of solid regulation out of an old set without fussing with replacement.
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David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#1994019 - 12/03/12 07:54 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
I tried, indeed there is a good result. I try to avoid those kind of things but they are good in some situations, and the gain in power is noticeable.

Is not it better to insert a thin strip of thin cloth ? more predicteable shape ?

That , under compressed whippens heel, makes wonder for the touch...
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1994030 - 12/03/12 08:37 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: Zeno Wood]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
Let me know if you're interested in re-positioning the knuckles, I have a jig. I also have some knuckle-removing pliers if you want to borrow them. Assuming you'll return them smile


Thanks Zeno, I'll bring you some bushing cloth as collateral. laugh
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Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

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#1994032 - 12/03/12 08:39 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Thanks for the replies, everyone. The backchecks are in decent shape, better than the knuckles, which are slightly flattened, loose, and full of graphite. I could sand and bolster (and still might do only that) but feel like knuckle replacement would greatly improve the feel of the action through letoff - enough to justify the work and minimal expense involved. In NYC, I simply never see old actions in this kind of condition - a pleasant discovery.

If the owner can't get at least 3 years of use out of these original hammers I will be very surprised (and there is definitely enough felt remaining for 2 reshapings) so it buys time if nothing else.

Let's also bear in mind that not everyone can lay out $1500. for new hammers, shanks, and flanges, plus the cost of regulation - especially musicians living in New York City. That's a lot of rice and beans. (Or 2/3 the rent on a one-bedroom in a funky neighborhood.)
_________________________
Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

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#1994062 - 12/03/12 10:31 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2058
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: James Carney
I [...] feel like knuckle replacement would greatly improve the feel of the action through letoff ...

I have to regulate a piano with recently replaced knuckles. There seems to be far too much resistance as the jack escapes when many of the keys are depressed slowly. How do you assess "the feel of the action through letoff"?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1994159 - 12/03/12 01:50 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
(some) New knuckles may need a good brushing and rubbing of Teflon powder or talcum. If the knuckles have the nap inverted there is much resistance too.

Letoff should be smooth.. Only at real speed it is more resistive . Indeed it depend also of the geometry of parts, and hammers mass, and centers. Friction during letoff can be modified with regulation, stack location. For instance the higher the shank is at the end of letoff, and the less the friction between jack and roller.... If unsure, I lmeasure how much up weight and down weight I have just to be sure I have not a problem with friction and ratios before let off.



Edited by Kamin (12/03/12 07:34 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1994203 - 12/03/12 03:45 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: Olek]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2180
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Kamin
I tried, indeed there is a good result. I try to avoid those kind of things but they are good in some situations, and the gain in power is noticeable.

Is not it better to insert a thin strip of thin cloth ? more predicteable shape ?

That , under compressed whippens heel, makes wonder for the touch...
I've used either strips or wool yarn, or both depending on the shape of the knuckles. Not everyone can afford complete replacement.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1994240 - 12/03/12 05:13 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2058
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: James Carney
... I also want opinions on nap direction, which seems to be almost evenly divided as I peruse older posts on that subject. (My instinct says put the buckskin nap in the same direction as the jack pushing up on the knuckle to minimize resistance, which I believe is the more "European" approach.) Any thoughts appreciated.


Originally Posted By: Kamin
New knuckles may need a good brushing and rubbing of Teflon powder or talcum. If the knuckles have the nap inverted there is much resistance too.

Letoff should be smooth...


Thanks for your advice, Kamin. I hope it's helpful to James too.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1994317 - 12/03/12 07:43 PM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
I like the kind of operation that allow to have the instrument better for some time without the cost of the real repair, but I generally try to avoid the same instruments, because if I need to work on one I spend generally too much time.

At some point what you ask to the customer is better kept for the future repair
With time I learned how to organize the job so the due repairs are done a few years later, then I try not to do things that will need to be undone later (as bending the balance rail pins to level the keys if the mortises are due.)

We have so many actions in regulation/tuning/voicing that have to be done twice or more, so I focus on the one that will be useful for long term.

Shaping old dry and non resilient hammers and voice them is typical of the things I do roughly , when I know the heads and shanks will be changed.



Edited by Kamin (12/03/12 07:44 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1994501 - 12/04/12 07:23 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Originally Posted By: James Carney
I [...] feel like knuckle replacement would greatly improve the feel of the action through letoff ...

I have to regulate a piano with recently replaced knuckles. There seems to be far too much resistance as the jack escapes when many of the keys are depressed slowly. How do you assess "the feel of the action through letoff"?


Experience - as both a player and technician.

We can't possibly know all the variables that are currently affecting your instrument, but let's say you have a 15 year old grand piano that is in perfect regulation and has received moderate use. If you replace only the knuckles, you will - at a minimum - have to change hammer blow distance, letoff, and drop. You may also have to change jack position and repetition lever height. Were those things done? All of this assumes perfectly level keys and perfectly regulated dip, good pinning, proper parts used, all bushings in good shape, etc. Good initial design and build quality of the action doesn't hurt either. (Example: If the action ratio is around 6 it won't be fun to play without modifications.)

The resistance you are feeling might be due to the drop set too low (too much drop) which elongates the time of escapement. I hate that squishy mushy feeling, and most other players do too, even though they usually have no idea what it is that they are hating! Letoff and drop should occur simultaneously. But, the danger in having a minimal amount of drop is that - depending on the accuracy and consistency of both key dip, hammer blow distance (which together form the amount of aftertouch present), and repetition spring strength - it is easy to get double strikes, especially on soft keystrokes. If you have just the minimal amount of aftertouch necessary, and if your key dip is also consistent on every note (i.e. no notes have even the slightest excess dip), you can get letoff nice and close while also having a minimal amount of drop. That's my goal when regulating, but it is not necessarily a "safe" regulation, especially with new parts. I think of it as a "hot rod" regulation that needs to be monitored and adjusted frequently; if you're only visiting the piano a few times a year, forget it, you're better off with more letoff and more drop distance, but for performance pianos in studios and venues that receive frequent care, this type of regulation delivers maximum power, dynamic range, and control. Hope that helps...

No other opinions on knuckle leather nap direction? Do you think it doesn't matter, or can't really be controlled? Ed Foote, you mentioned being "consistent" with it. But which direction do you strive for when installing? I really don't know if it matters once the knuckles are burnished, so I'd like to hear from the folks who've been doing this for decades...
_________________________
Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

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#1994508 - 12/04/12 07:49 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4954
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: James Carney
.....

No other opinions on knuckle leather nap direction? Do you think it doesn't matter, or can't really be controlled? Ed Foote, you mentioned being "consistent" with it. But which direction do you strive for when installing? I really don't know if it matters once the knuckles are burnished, so I'd like to hear from the folks who've been doing this for decades...


I have only replaced one set of knuckles, but had the same dilemma - which way should the nap go? Some say one way, some the other. I opted for the nap to allow the easiest path for the jack to reset which is pretty durn important! This also gives a little more friction at letoff which I can see as giving a more "secure feel" which is also pretty durn important! Letoff should be crisp, not slippery.

All:

There is a similar discussion on another current Topic, so I want to say something in general. With a used piano, if you need to mess with dip, you should first replace the key punching felts. And in the case of normal variations in dip, the amount of aftertouch and the feel of letoff can be optimized with the proper adjustment of the key capstan, letoff screw and drop screw. Yes other things have to be operable, but these are the main ones for aftertouch and letoff. You don't have to go through the entire 57-1/2 step regulation procedure to get an action to work consistently.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1994555 - 12/04/12 09:48 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2058
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: James Carney
We can't possibly know all the variables that are currently affecting your instrument, but let's say you have a 15 year old grand piano that is in perfect regulation and has received moderate use. If you replace only the knuckles, you will - at a minimum - have to change hammer blow distance, letoff, and drop. You may also have to change jack position and repetition lever height. Were those things done? All of this assumes perfectly level keys and perfectly regulated dip, good pinning, proper parts used, all bushings in good shape, etc. Good initial design and build quality of the action doesn't hurt either.

Most helpful, James, thank you. Your "hot rod" regulation is exactly what I had in mind, and now I have the missing part of the road map to get there. I have done something similar on an upright but this is new to me.

The piano is about 105 years old but it was reasonably well restored about 3 years ago. It's a mystery why the hammers were not well aligned to the strings and the regulation was completely out: blow distance, let off, drop and dampers.

NAP
Jeff makes a very good point about making it easy for the jack to reset. When playing the hammers will continue on to the strings, leaving the jacks behind, as soon as the jacks hit their buttons. Are we missing something?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1994561 - 12/04/12 09:59 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
You may need to have access to a normal grand piano, and then rub the knuckles with your finger you will know how the nap is oriented (a small pencil line is laid on each roller on the hammer side, so it is easy to have the good orientation)
ALl theories have their merits but we usually fight too much friction during letoff, hence lubrication.. One have to realize that the force on the jack is really huge, not at all what you feel when moving the parts slowly.

Inverted nap will work, but it goes in direction of some hardness felt during letoff, and hence a less fluid touch.

Some knuckles are more scratchy than others, I like the Renner ones for their smoothness...


Edited by Kamin (12/04/12 03:52 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1994565 - 12/04/12 10:11 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: Withindale]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
When playing the pianist use the tactile return from the jack friction, it gives enough information to know if a little more acceleration is necessary (difficult), or if the hammer is too energetic.. In that case a good pianist is able to lighten instantly his hand so to avoid more energy. This is only in a specific mode of playing, 2 to be exact, one with the hand elevated and playing mostly with the dynamics of parts, and and one where the tone is build from the bottom of the keys.

In one mode I heard said we play "at the letoff level" (let off is the reference level for the hand). In the other the bottom of the key dip is the reference, and the notes "germinate" from there.
Last mode the surface of the keys is the reference.

harpsichord is played that way if I am not wrong.

The jack leaves the knuckles soon, and at less than mf, in that last playing modes, and but letoff is central to the 2 others.


Edited by Kamin (12/04/12 03:55 PM)
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#1994572 - 12/04/12 10:32 AM Re: Knuckle replacement [Re: James Carney]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Changing knuckles? I not on 15 years old piano unless some stupid have graphited them...
.
But then, if necessary it is not long to be done.

Less long than the rest of the job..

The nap is oriented so it send some friction but not too much;
I have seen knuckles burnished with graphite, even once with parrafine : BAD !!
graphite will make squeaks and rob too much feedback then the touch begin to be "yes or no" that is not what pianists prefer.

The Teflon powder is used to lube and protect the leather from graphite contamination..
(But I was explained that graphiting of the knuckles as abig "secret" !)


Edited by Kamin (12/04/12 04:05 PM)
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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