Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1994593 - 12/04/12 11:03 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: Ralph]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4804
Originally Posted By: Ralph
This thread is going a little astray, but I can't help but to think about those great pianists that could not perform in public such as Glenn Gould and even Rachmaninov and wonder if they lacked the narcissistic qualities necessary for a concert career.


Sometimes one wonders how (and why) pianists who suffer terribly from nerves keep giving concerts, e.g. Clifford Curzon. You only have to listen to his two live recordings of the Liszt Sonata (compare them to his studio recording made at the same time) to hear what happens. But as to whether he was narcissistic or egoistic.....

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1994599 - 12/04/12 11:30 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: wr]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: wr


In fact, I'd go so far as to say that there are NO famous pianists who are not also world-class narcissists, either overtly or covertly. It's a job requirement.


That's silly. Pogorelich himself doesn't strike me as narcissistic, from what I know of him he seems like a quite nice and interesting chap.

Top
#1994604 - 12/04/12 11:39 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: bennevis]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8816
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: bennevis

Sometimes one wonders how (and why) pianists who suffer terribly from nerves keep giving concerts, e.g. Clifford Curzon. You only have to listen to his two live recordings of the Liszt Sonata (compare them to his studio recording made at the same time) to hear what happens. But as to whether he was narcissistic or egoistic.....

From what I have read about Curzon, neither word would seem applicable.

Curzon evidently had problems with nerves in the studio as well. Reportedly, the opening of the 3rd movement of the Decca Brahms D minor required many, many takes before he could get it down accurately. Otherwise, the recording is something of a classic. And we certainly know what a fine chamber musician Curzon was.
_________________________
Jason

Top
#1994647 - 12/04/12 01:23 PM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: Ralph]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Narcissism is not the same as having an ego. Narcissists have a pathological devotion to themselves, they lack empathy for others, they see others as tools for their own purposes. I think that's far too strong for our concert performers. I think performers usually have large egos - some very large, but I don't think they could be considered pathological.

The list of common symtoms of narcissistic personality disorder from Wiki:

-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional

Top
#1995779 - 12/07/12 05:38 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: Orange Soda King]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
^ ^ My all time favorite Gaspard!!


+1. The texture of his right hand playing is magical. I still prefer Martha's Scarbo though.
_________________________
Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

Top
#1995780 - 12/07/12 05:39 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: ando]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
Originally Posted By: ando
Narcissism is not the same as having an ego. Narcissists have a pathological devotion to themselves, they lack empathy for others, they see others as tools for their own purposes. I think that's far too strong for our concert performers. I think performers usually have large egos - some very large, but I don't think they could be considered pathological.

The list of common symtoms of narcissistic personality disorder from Wiki:

-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional



Wait, sorry, were we discussion musicians or every one of my ex-es? I forget.
_________________________
Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

Top
#1995781 - 12/07/12 05:57 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: asthecrowflies]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
Originally Posted By: ando
Narcissism is not the same as having an ego. Narcissists have a pathological devotion to themselves, they lack empathy for others, they see others as tools for their own purposes. I think that's far too strong for our concert performers. I think performers usually have large egos - some very large, but I don't think they could be considered pathological.

The list of common symtoms of narcissistic personality disorder from Wiki:

-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional



Wait, sorry, were we discussion musicians or every one of my ex-es? I forget.


Yikes, sounds like you went through some tough times!

Top
#1995799 - 12/07/12 06:59 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: ando]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
Originally Posted By: ando
Narcissism is not the same as having an ego. Narcissists have a pathological devotion to themselves, they lack empathy for others, they see others as tools for their own purposes. I think that's far too strong for our concert performers. I think performers usually have large egos - some very large, but I don't think they could be considered pathological.

The list of common symtoms of narcissistic personality disorder from Wiki:

-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional



Wait, sorry, were we discussion musicians or every one of my ex-es? I forget.




Yikes, sounds like you went through some tough times!


What would the "ex-es" say? Maybe it's they who went through some hard times!

Top
#1995801 - 12/07/12 07:06 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: Ralph]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
As for "Gaspard dans la nuit", it must be heard live in a hall. It is physical, three-dimensional, no recording can bring this out no matter the player and I am indifferent to all that I have heard. I have been absolutely spellbound by it in concert on several occasions.

Top
#1995830 - 12/07/12 08:12 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: landorrano]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7753
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: wr


In fact, I'd go so far as to say that there are NO famous pianists who are not also world-class narcissists, either overtly or covertly. It's a job requirement.


That's silly. Pogorelich himself doesn't strike me as narcissistic, from what I know of him he seems like a quite nice and interesting chap.


There's no rule that says that narcissists can't be nice, nor interesting. In fact, the best narcissists probably flatter themselves over having those very qualities.

But to qualify just a little - when I wrote that, I was thinking of performers specifically in their role as performers, rather than about their entire 24/7 persona.

Top
#1995834 - 12/07/12 08:21 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: ando]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7753
Originally Posted By: ando
Narcissism is not the same as having an ego. Narcissists have a pathological devotion to themselves, they lack empathy for others, they see others as tools for their own purposes. I think that's far too strong for our concert performers. I think performers usually have large egos - some very large, but I don't think they could be considered pathological.

The list of common symtoms of narcissistic personality disorder from Wiki:

-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional



"Narcissist" as a usage predates the invention of "narcissistic personality disorder" by quite a while, I think, and they aren't the same thing. If I think performers are, pretty much by definition, narcissists, it doesn't mean I think they all have the clinical disorder. Of course, they might have it, but that's not what I was saying.

Top
#1995889 - 12/07/12 10:33 AM Re: Pogo in 1980 Chopin competition [Re: wr]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
I think the opposite as you, WR. An artist cannot be narcissistic or egoistic when he is playing, even if he is in "real life". For the time of a subject and a counter-subject he is worlds beyond that.

Originally Posted By: wr
In fact, the best narcissists probably flatter themselves over having those very qualities.


You've really got it in for those poor spring flowers! smile

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
U.S. Treasury Auctioning Steinway Art Case Concert Grand
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
109 registered (accordeur, Alex1, AndresD, 31 invisible), 1521 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75487 Members
42 Forums
156076 Topics
2291950 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!!
by A443
39 minutes 33 seconds ago
What brand of solid string to use?
by Grandpianoman
Today at 10:38 PM
"Rhodes" sound -- variation with volume?
by Charles Cohen
Today at 08:59 PM
That last 10%
by gooddog
Today at 08:24 PM
Hamelin Review from the Mannes Keyboard program in NYC
by Serge Marinkovic
Today at 08:03 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission