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Topic Options
#1995124 - 12/05/12 04:45 PM what are my options?
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Hi to all...
Since I purchased my new piano about a year ago I have been concerned about the sound quality of a single note. It sounds dead compared to all others on the keyboard. I have been told by the dealer that all pianos have trouble spots. Before the one year warranty expires what should I demand/request? Thanks

p.s. the piano is estonia 168 notes is e5
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995145 - 12/05/12 05:29 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Danville, California
What one year warranty?

As far as I know Estonia pianos have a 10 year warranty to the original purchaser.

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#1995170 - 12/05/12 06:53 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: Furtwangler]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
yes, I was speaking of the one year service contract with dealer
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995174 - 12/05/12 07:00 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: Georgia, USA
Sounds to me like you are at the mercy of the dealer.

I'd contact a reputable piano tech not associated with the dealer and pay them to try and solve the problem. Unfortunately, it sounds like you are on your own here...

Maybe some of the Estonia dealers here will chime in with some good advice.

Good luck.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1995177 - 12/05/12 07:14 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19099
Loc: New York City
Has the dealer tried to solve the problem at all or are they claiming it's not a warranty problem or that it's just an acceptable variation in sound? What does the dealer's service warranty include?

What do you mean by "dead"? Very low volume? Very little sustain? Does it sound like the E two octaves higher in terms of volume or sustain?

If the piano was bought new it has a warranty in addition to the one year warranty you mentioned. Whether it will cover this problem is unclear and might depend on how dead it sounds compared to the other notes. If you think the note is clearly very dead compared to the surrounding notes then I think it should be covered but that's just an opinion.

It seems like a reasonable dealer should try to solve this problem especially because it may be very simple and just as a matter of good will. Why some dealers are so unhelpful is beyond me. How can it possibly be worth the negative publicity even if you only just told a few friends?

I see no reason why you should be "on your own" here unless most others would say the note is not significantly dead compared to the other nearby notes.

Has anyone looked at the problem and offered or tried possible solutions?


Edited by pianoloverus (12/05/12 07:25 PM)

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#1995178 - 12/05/12 07:15 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: Rickster]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1797
Loc: Suffolk, England
Isn't the point of a service contract to deal with trouble spots? Why not make it clear your dealer that you have a serious problem and ask him to solve it?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1995183 - 12/05/12 07:25 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6124
Loc: Rochester MN
Having the service contract, explain to the dealer that the note needs to be voiced to fit in with the tone of the piano. Request the services of a piano technician.

At about a year, now is the perfect time to have the action checked/regulated and make sure that the entire voicing of the piano is even. These should be covered in your service contract. Also check to see if tuning is included in your contract.

Good Luck
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1995228 - 12/05/12 09:27 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Being an estonia the surrounding notes sound rich and warm... this one sounds this and dull with little sustain... Dealer seems to be claiming that it is an acceptable variation in sound. He also seems to imply that it is in my imagination.
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995252 - 12/05/12 11:26 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peabody
Being an estonia the surrounding notes sound rich and warm... this one sounds this and dull with little sustain... Dealer seems to be claiming that it is an acceptable variation in sound. He also seems to imply that it is in my imagination.


Could you record your piano, playing a few notes on either side of the problem note? It would give us a clear idea of how much of a problem you are dealing with. Will also give you some moral support that you are not imagining things. I am sure you are right about this, and it must be infuriating that your dealer would brush it off as imagination (especially if he hasn't personally come to hear it in your home).

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#1995257 - 12/05/12 11:48 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
How little sustain? Does it drop off suddenly? Does it happens to be a bass note? Which note exactly, and how big is the room the piano is in?

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#1995493 - 12/06/12 02:13 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Thanks for all the replies. I will try to get a recording done soon for more input. Yes, the dealer has been to my home but does not seem to agree that there is a problem. The note is E in the melody section... E5. The room is about 12x24 but the rest of the piano sounds fine to me. It is a harsh sounding note with quick decay. Being more familiar with guitars I compare it to a guitar string that is not setting in the bridge completely and therefore mutes pretty quickly and sounds lifeless.
Thanks again
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995509 - 12/06/12 02:56 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Since your room is in the proportion of 2:1, it is possible that it has to do with room mode problems. There is a spot in my room where my D2 is completely dead. It happens to be where the treble sounds the best, but I had to move the piano to bring back the D2 and compromise on a treble that doesn't ring as well. Rooms with dimension ratios of 1:1 or 2:1 are always most challenging acoustically, yet those, of course are the most common proportions chosen by builders.

It doesn't hurt to move your piano a few inches whichever direction and see if it changes that E5. If you have 8 foot ceiling, a room mode calculator seem to suggest you do have a problem near that frequency (660 Hz). If you get some changes for your E5 when you move the piano, you know it is related to room mode.


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#1995551 - 12/06/12 04:53 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Interesting point 4evr...
I have recently moved the piano about a foot and turned it a quarter turn... I did not notice any improvement in that particular note. My ceilings are 9 ft.
Thanks
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995605 - 12/06/12 06:43 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
There is no reason why E5 would sound dead when F5 and D#5 sound fine. Forget the room idea, there is a mechanical issue with your piano. I would be recording it, posting it up for us here, get the backup for your claim. ie. Dozens of people have heard it and they all agree. Then push it for all it's worth. Can you possibly pursue this from a manufacturers warranty angle, rather than just through the dealer? Or tell the dealer you want to go that route - that way your dealer might think he doesn't have to pay for the technician to fix it.

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#1995611 - 12/06/12 07:01 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1797
Loc: Suffolk, England
Is the note still dead compared to others when you pluck them with a plectrum?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1995619 - 12/06/12 07:14 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Single note problems can be annoying but are hardly ever a serious matter.

In most cases one simply needs a top flight technician to spot, analyze and "fix" things.
I can't recall a single situation where this would not have been a matter of only few minutes.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1995641 - 12/06/12 08:07 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
It's basically a long shot with frequencies higher than 300 Hz. Room modes generally do not affect a piano up in the 4th and 5th octave. That's why I asked you if it was a bass note at first. No need to move anything as you had already tried it. Back to square one, the piano, rather than the room.

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#1995690 - 12/06/12 11:13 PM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Hi Withindale...
Interesting... the note seems to ring as well as it's surrounding neighbors when i use a plectrum... Would that suggest a simple voicing issue or could there still be other factors involved.
Thanks again
_________________________
Peabody

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#1995823 - 12/07/12 08:00 AM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Probably just a voicing issue.

I would PRESS the dealer HARD to get it fixed right away. Or, tell him you are hiring your own technician to look at it and you will present him with your technicians bill if he doesn't take care of the problem immediately. (After you pay the technician yourself of course...) smile That might get the ball rolling better on his end.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1995827 - 12/07/12 08:09 AM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1797
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: peabody
Hi Withindale...
Interesting... the note seems to ring as well as it's surrounding neighbors when i use a plectrum... Would that suggest a simple voicing issue or could there still be other factors involved.
Thanks again

Jerry +1
Norbert +1

Should be readily sorted by any good tech.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1995833 - 12/07/12 08:21 AM Re: what are my options? [Re: peabody]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4394
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Jerry +1
Norbert +1"


Get it seen to yourself--- by a tech who is well-qualified to handle voicing (easy to say; not always so easy to find). Hash out the bill reimbursement with the seller afterward. A letter to the manufacturer might help put a squeeze on that foot-dragging dealer, especially if it comes to the nuisance of a small-claims-court action.

But meanwhile, you will be better-off having your piano fixed... and come to think of it, it is also 'evidence,' undercutting the seller's claim that, "Aw, shucks, Your Honor, that was nothing."
_________________________
Clef


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