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#1385878 - 03/01/10 07:27 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
In modern terminology as in the refinishing industry,the term refers to making it black. If the piano was originally black,it is a given that the piano should stay black. There are times whereas some owner in the piano's history might have refinished the piano in a wood finish. In most cases original ebonized pianos do not have a veneer consistency throughout. In that the piano was black it would not look good with different veneers on various parts of the piano.
When a piano was ebonized in the old days,even after you strip the piano,it will still be black. If one wanted some wood tone finish one wouldd have to bleach the wood to rid the black. Not advisable in the long term. Bleach is not a good thing for wood or anything except maybe doing your whites at the laundrymat. grin


Edited by pianobroker (03/01/10 07:36 PM)
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#1385892 - 03/01/10 07:42 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: pianobroker]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Actually a high end ebony satin finish is more difficult to do than a satin wood finish. Of course the exception being if the wood finish cabinet is thrashed with multiple gouges and veneer damage. Imperfections on a wood satin finish piano is technically less visible than on a black piano. wink
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#1385934 - 03/01/10 08:41 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: pianobroker]
Brandon_W_T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1940
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I heard that on some pianos that are painted black (older ones) That if you strip it to try and make a wood finish, you may be fairly disappointed, as some used many different unmatched woods, therefor, making the piano multicolored! :S
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#1385949 - 03/01/10 09:00 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: pianobroker]
James Scott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I would think that it would be, being all one solid color. You can see any inconsistencies, whereas on a wood grain satin model you already have the inconsistencies to mask it.

So, do they stain it black then coat with finish of whatever type is appropriate? Or do they paint? I've always wondered about how they actually go about doing it, I hope that somebody can reveal it, and that it's not trade secrets.

Ok, how about this: I've seen pictures of what is advertised as satin black but the underside of the lid is polished mirror-like, I suppose to reflect the bright shinyness of the golden plate and strings. How common is that, and is it only done on certain tiers of piano? I can't remember off hand what make I saw it in.

I know that these are a bunch of stupid questions, but you guys seem to have all of the answers so I figure that I might as well keep going. Maybe I'll learn something. Please let me know if it gets annoying.

Thanks,
James

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#1385952 - 03/01/10 09:05 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Ebonizing is staining black then laquering over. Original evonized pianos, when stripped, frequently show mismatched vineers because they could.
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#1386150 - 03/02/10 02:34 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Originally Posted By: James Scott
I would think that it would be, being all one solid color. You can see any inconsistencies, whereas on a wood grain satin model you already have the inconsistencies to mask it.

So, do they stain it black then coat with finish of whatever type is appropriate? Or do they paint? I've always wondered about how they actually go about doing it, I hope that somebody can reveal it, and that it's not trade secrets.

Ok, how about this: I've seen pictures of what is advertised as satin black but the underside of the lid is polished mirror-like, I suppose to reflect the bright shinyness of the golden plate and strings. How common is that, and is it only done on certain tiers of piano? I can't remember off hand what make I saw it in.

I know that these are a bunch of stupid questions, but you guys seem to have all of the answers so I figure that I might as well keep going. Maybe I'll learn something. Please let me know if it gets annoying.

Thanks,
James
In this day and age there are numerous approaches /methods to doing an ebony satin finish. Back in the stoneage,actually not that long ago,I've heard persons french polishing an entire piano in a week. Think about it...What kind of coverage could one get, hand staining a black / ebony piano. The majority of piano finishes with the exception of oak,pecan or ? are a closed pore finish.In the past and present,one still needs to seal the pores. The traditional way was with sanding sealer followed by multiple color or clears coats sanded and rubbed out with steel wool,abrasive pads,pumus,ajax or ? In modern times many use a poly /primer coat to initially fill the pores before or after coloring the piano.

In an ebony satin finish whether using lacquer,polyurethane or polyester we always shoot the color coat followed by multiple clear coats.In essance we rub out the clear coat not the black colorcoat. That way you get that reflective quality in a hand rubbed satin finish. That was a crude and concise explanation of an ebony satin finish! grin

On the underside of the lid ,many may claim that they are doing something over and beyond the call of duty in making it highgloss but in reality one does not have to colorsand the underside and rub it out.If the factory is at higher efficiency doing high gloss polyester than they'll do it. Confusing huh!


Edited by pianobroker (03/02/10 02:41 AM)
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#1994409 - 12/04/12 12:54 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
Weed Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 2


Edited by Weed (12/05/12 12:47 AM)

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#1994418 - 12/04/12 01:29 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 513
Loc: California
Quote:
What would be the best year range to get?


2012

If the piano is old and has been rebuilt, the only thing "Steinway" about it may be the plate, the rim, and the decal on the fallboard.
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#1994569 - 12/04/12 10:26 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: Weed]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2685
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Weed
Based on some of your comments on this thread and that the piano is in Phoenix I thought you might be interested.
Hello Andy. If you check the dates on this thread, you will see it is over 2.5 years old. Advertising in the classifieds is good. Dragging your classified ad into a forum thread is not the same.

Otherwise, welcome.
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#1994818 - 12/05/12 12:49 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Weed Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/12
Posts: 2
Sorry Sam.
Not familiar with forum etiquette.

As you can see I have deleted my previous comment.
A.W.

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#1994934 - 12/05/12 09:13 AM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: Weed]
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10447
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Weed
Sorry Sam.
Not familiar with forum etiquette.

As you can see I have deleted my previous comment.
A.W.


No problem...and welcome to the piano Forum.
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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1995055 - 12/05/12 01:53 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: Tweedpipe]
TomazP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 102
Loc: Ucluelet, BC Canada
I have a Hamburg "B" from 1967. Original action, no teflon.

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#1995201 - 12/05/12 08:03 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: Furtwangler]
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 542
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Maybe look for a 1927.

That was a pretty good year for New York as I recall. smile


Dear Furtwangler,

pls. specify: would you opt for the last versions with Appalachian white spruce soundboard, or opt for the first versions with Sitka spruce from Alaska ranges?
;-)


Edited by BerndAB (12/05/12 08:03 PM)
_________________________
Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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#1995213 - 12/05/12 08:29 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 542
Loc: Germany
There is another "issue" related to building years besides of the "Teflon rocky horror picture show"..

:P

I don't know the exact years of production. In years around the 30ies?, 40ies? 50ies? Steinway used in their grand mechanisms, flanges, repetitions axes/wires with a galvanized copper overlay to protect the steel wire against corrosion.

..and what happened? Not the steel but the copper corroded.. ..

"vertigris".

The forces needed to lift a hammer increase, to lift a repetition, et cetera.

I bought a set of hammers and another set of repetitions both w. vertigris, obviosly extracted at the New York plant, and some clever guys had picked it out of the scap box - to sell it on ebay.. ;-)

Vertigris also to be checked and avoided.
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Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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#1995214 - 12/05/12 08:31 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: BerndAB]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1523
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: BerndAB
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Maybe look for a 1927.

That was a pretty good year for New York as I recall. smile


Dear Furtwangler,

pls. specify: would you opt for the last versions with Appalachian white spruce soundboard, or opt for the first versions with Sitka spruce from Alaska ranges?
;-)


Just my idea of a little humor Bernd

The New York Yankees (with Babe Ruth) in 1927 had great success including winning the World Series of baseball.

This team is widely considered to be the best baseball team ever

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#1995222 - 12/05/12 08:52 PM Re: Best Steinway model and year to look for [Re: James Scott]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7223
Loc: Rochester MN
Verdigris is not uncommon in any brand of piano. It is not unique to Steinway.
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It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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