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#1998384 - 12/12/12 01:44 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
bennevis, But milk contains a high percentage of saturated fat, which leads to high cholesterol and increases the risk of cardiovascular disease. Humans still haven't evolved to cope with this problem......

You know, I consume a fair amount of fat in my diet ... all kinds of animal fat, dairy fat, and vegetable fat. It's interesting that my blood chemistry is excellent.

When I went back to my family doctor three weeks ago to pick up the results of my blood work, the doctor's assistant advised me to watch the amount of fat I consume but she only mentioned that after I told her about the diet I follow ... low carbs, high fat (and no starches).

I had the results of the blood work in my hand and just waved them at her. If animal fat is so bad, why is my blood chemistry measurably excellent?

There's an explanation for that ... and I have a life outside of this forum. smile


Maybe you have good genes. Some people are born lucky that way.

I won't ask you what your cholesterol and HDL and LDL and TG levels are grin, but we know that mammals - mice to rabbits to elephants to whales to, er, humans are born with a cholesterol level of around 3 mmol/l - which don't rise if you stay on a fish and veg and fruit and grains/nuts (and no junk food of any sort) diet throughout your life, e.g. if you live in rural Japan. (Or if you're a wild animal, eating natural wild foods).

But in most countries, your cholesterol level starts rising as soon as you're weaned. The reasons are obvious.
_________________________
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#1998461 - 12/12/12 04:26 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
When did I say that it was conclusive? It's not. That's the point.

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#1998487 - 12/12/12 05:18 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
piano joy, I'm not a health nut but it does seem odd that only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood ... and the milk isn't even from our own species. I never gave that any thought until I started reading about nutrition.


That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.
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#1998519 - 12/12/12 06:04 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
DAVE_250 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 29
Sugar makes us stupid, Omega 3's protects the mind. This should be common sense by now.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...health-science/

"Cherbuin says that we still do not fully understand all the factors involved in regulating blood sugar levels. We do know enough to say that poor diet, lack of exercise, and constant stress likely play a leading role in maintaining unhealthily high levels, he says.

"It is this chronic exposure to high glucose levels that is more likely to lead to poorer brain health," he says."

Read more.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20120904/normal-blood-sugar-levels-may-harm-brain

It's not brain sugary!


Edited by DAVE_250 (12/12/12 06:28 PM)

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#1998565 - 12/12/12 08:11 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
What the helll? When did "charlie" become DAVE_250?
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#1998570 - 12/12/12 08:24 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
DAVE_250 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 29
I play several instruments, so I am a member in a few forums, and this is a universal question.

Keep my identity secret please , I am also in a batman forum


Edited by DAVE_250 (12/12/12 08:31 PM)

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#1998571 - 12/12/12 08:31 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
That doesn't answer why your name on this forum just changed from Charlie to Dave during a 2 year break.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1998581 - 12/12/12 08:56 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
DAVE_250 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 29
No answer for yah. I probably changed it two years ago.

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#1998700 - 12/13/12 12:35 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18230
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: DAVE_250
[...] I am also in a batman forum


A forum devoted to those in service of a British military officer? Who knew?!

Cheers!
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#1998752 - 12/13/12 04:11 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Damon]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
piano joy, I'm not a health nut but it does seem odd that only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood ... and the milk isn't even from our own species. I never gave that any thought until I started reading about nutrition.


That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.


Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?
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#1998761 - 12/13/12 05:38 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: bennevis]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7980
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: bennevis


Everyone is predisposed to gaining weight - if they are surrounded by plenty, which we are now. 20 years ago, there were hardly any obese people in China: go to Beijing and see what it's like now. Not quite as bad as in USA and UK, but they're catching up very quickly. The same for the big rich cities in otherwise poor countries (including all African countries). The genes haven't changed - it' the environment that has. But homo sapiens haven't adapted: it now requires an effort (controlling the amount we eat) to stay slim.



I don't think the rise in obesity means that people are predisposed to gaining weight - it just means that if the environment and culture changes in certain ways, the general population will gain weight. But that is not a predisposition to gain weight, genetically speaking.

Said differently - if eating a lot of junk makes a person fat, it may be because they are eating junk, rather than because they have some predisposition towards weight gain.



Numerous studies have consistently shown that when people (of any age) are given easy access to a large variety and amounts of appetizing foods/junk, they'll eat more. Which is what we're faced with today. It's not just junk food either. Excess calories cannot be 'disposed of' - the body has to store it, as fat. If necessary, we'll develop more fat cells to accomodate (which won't disappear when we no longer require them). We'll even store fat in organs like the liver: NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) is becoming almost an epidemic in Western countries, and overtaking alcohol-related liver disease in some areas...


Of course - it's sort of a no-brainer. Since scarcity has been more common than excess throughout most of human existence, it is no surprise that we have, as a species, evolved to store up calories when we are presented with the opportunity to do so.

I'm not convinced that would be a "predisposition" in the same sense that I meant it when I said I was genetically predisposed to be slender. That individual genetic trait I have is, in fact, something of a counterbalance to the general trend of adding on the pounds.

And if Deborah had her genome sequenced, she might find that her sense about how weight gain works in her family would be verified by some specific genetic data. Or it could turn out that her genome did not especially predispose her towards weight gain, over the usual kind that you describe (at least at the current level of genetic knowledge, which is far from comprehensive). But, absent any further information, there is no reason to assume that her perception is solely attributable to the same type of weight gain that is seen in the general population in the industrialized countries.

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#1998830 - 12/13/12 09:34 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: wr]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: wr





I'm not convinced that would be a "predisposition" in the same sense that I meant it when I said I was genetically predisposed to be slender. That individual genetic trait I have is, in fact, something of a counterbalance to the general trend of adding on the pounds.







Human beings, unlike other species, aren't slaves to our genes. But for some people, it's still harder than for others to stay slim/lose weight. Some people are more attracted to eating than others, just as some people have addictive personalities.

The notion that some slim people can eat anything they want (and lots more than fat people), yet still remain slim, has been comprehensively debunked by numerous controlled studies. Self-reported so-called 'studies' are the source of this myth. How many people are able to spend 24 hours/day in the company of dieticians who can monitor exactly how many calories they are eating? A study I read recently showed that fat people under-report how much they ate by between 50 - 400%, while slim people tend to be more accurate, but still under-report generally. A lot of the 'missing calories' are from mindless snacking (which can be healthy fruit as well as unhealthy cookies, but they are all calories....) while watching TV, in between meals, with coffee breaks, while cooking and nibbling etc; others come from the under-estimation of how much food they are actually eating at mealtimes, or simply not realizing that what they are eating is a lot, lot more than 'one portion'. (BTW, a portion of steak/meat/fish is the size of a pack of cards).

I was a chubby (OK, somewhat fat grin) child, because my parents always tried to pile up the children's plates (like most people, I like to blame others for my problems...) with the admonishment that 'children are starving in Africa', therefore I shouldn't waste any food and should clear my plates. (My young mind couldn't grasp that linking one with the other made no sense...). I was hopeless at any sports at school, so turned to music and chess and the theory of relativity instead. My brother ballooned to some 300lb (he died two years ago at the age of 49 from a stroke due to hypertension and undiagnosed diabetes); I was lucky in that I lived my own life and didn't get too fat, because I was (and still am) a hopeless cook but didn't like the taste of fast food, nor of snack products. And what really changed was when I took up hiking, then mountaineering, then discovered that the best way to keep myself fit for the mountains was to run - preferably on hilly ground. But running isn't easy (for myself, or for onlookers pretending not to notice.... grin) when you're overweight, so I set out to lose weight - by eating consistently less at the two main meals I have everyday. Breakfast was spared from pruning. The running itself didn't shed any more pounds - even when I was running 60 miles/week when training for the London Marathon (of which I've run four so far), I didn't lose a single pound, partly because I refuelled with orange juice after every run: it was the downsizing of my portion sizes that achieved the weight loss.

In the UK, those in government are so PC and sensitive to the public's 'feelings' that they equate losing weight with exercise rather than eating less (and instead of telling people to stop eating so much, they beat about the bush by saying we should all eat more 'healthily', as if calories from a 'healthy' veggie burger is somehow less fattening than the same calories from an 'unhealthy' Big Mac), yet it's a hopeless endeavor for anyone to achieve any significant weight loss without actually cutting down their food intake (in calorie terms). For instance, to lose one pound of fat, the average person would have to walk or run 35-40 miles. How many obese people can walk one mile? Yet it's very easy to eat the 3500 calories (= 1 lb fat) in one sitting: I've scoffed over 4500 calories in one meal (after running a marathon, or climbing a mountain) numerous times.... grin

And a recent study has shown that the reason why today's children are getting so overweight is not because children are exercising less than they did 30 years ago - in fact the average amount of daily exercise that children do today is about the same as then (despite all those computer games etc) - but simply because they are eating more; much more than they did 30 years ago. Many children under 10 are eating more than adults did 30 years ago. The average daily calorie intake of American adults today is around 3500.....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#1998905 - 12/13/12 12:04 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
And a recent study has shown that the reason why today's children are getting so overweight is not because children are exercising less than they did 30 years ago - in fact the average amount of daily exercise that children do today is about the same as then (despite all those computer games etc) - but simply because they are eating more; much more than they did 30 years ago. Many children under 10 are eating more than adults did 30 years ago. The average daily calorie intake of American adults today is around 3500.....

There are many variations to that theme, but that's basically it along with the added insult of fructose.

Soda and fruit drinks in the US are loaded with high fructose corn syrup. Fructose is metabolized differently in the body than sucrose and repeated exposure to fructose can lead to leptin resistance.

Hundreds of years ago a sugar treat was really a treat and didn't impact on the health of a nation. Today we have access to all kinds of 'treats' and they've become a necessity, a staple of our diet. Thirty percent of the US population is obese and we have HFCS to thank.

Getting back to exercise, three of four years ago I joined a gym expressly to lose weight. A friend of mine told me that two things would happen, my weight would stay exactly the same and my legs would get thick. That's exactly what happened.

While we all know that to lose weight we have to consume fewer calories, there is a difference between them - a calorie is not a calorie.

After reading a few books on this and watching countless videos, I have much more empathy for obese folks. No one really wants to be fat ... and knowing what to eat and what to avoid is the key. For me, it was the talk by Gary Taubes, Why We`Are Fat, that opened my eyes. Once I understood what happens at the cellular level, I could easily manage my own diet.
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#1998981 - 12/13/12 02:11 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood


Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog, then watch.


Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?


Maybe the edit above will help you understand. At first I assumed you thought you were being humorous but it could be you don't understand how to make a list.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1998987 - 12/13/12 02:23 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Damon]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood


Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog, then watch.


Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?


Maybe the edit above will help you understand. At first I assumed you thought you were being humorous but it could be you don't understand how to make a list.


Well, I thought what Dave wrote was "funny"! I laughed!

Just like I thought this was funny. Sad...but funny!
And I wonder what the "NEXT Generation" down the road is going to look like.



Sorry I couldn't resist! grin . . . TAXI !!!!!!
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#1998988 - 12/13/12 02:24 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.



I understood what you meant ... and you understood what I meant.

Most folks would have smiled. You didn't.
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#1999015 - 12/13/12 03:17 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
piano joy, I'm not a health nut but it does seem odd that only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood ... and the milk isn't even from our own species. I never gave that any thought until I started reading about nutrition.


That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.


Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?

Dave, I thought what you wrote was most funny! I smiled. I laughed actually! grin

Don't worry I think some people just lack humour.
And I just think Batman should look like this ! OH YES I do!
AND BATMAN, if you get this message. CALL ME! . . . grin

_________________________
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Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#1999021 - 12/13/12 03:37 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1552
The issue for me is what can I put on my raisin bran other than milk?
(I don't like soy milk) I noticed that in the USA, the obsession with
putting cheese on practically everything! the waitress asked, do I want
cheese on my eggs, french fries, hash browns etc.. cheese obsessed!! LOL!

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#1999037 - 12/13/12 04:25 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Bob Newbie]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
The issue for me is what can I put on my raisin bran other than milk?


This guy has an idea that might work for you... (at 25 seconds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJ02VB5Evk

Forrest

p.s. I guess from the Hoffman quotes thread my enjoyment of this song puts me squarely in the 'amateur' camp.
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current studies:
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#1999039 - 12/13/12 04:26 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Diane...]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Diane...

And I just think Batman should look like this ! OH YES I do!
AND BATMAN, if you get this message. CALL ME! . . . grin



1+
And,if Diane's not home, call ME!
I promise to wear a catwoman suit!

wait- I'm sorry, what was this thread about again?
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#1999049 - 12/13/12 04:40 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: piano joy]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
hmmmmmmmm.....

maybe

Forrest
_________________________
-------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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#1999050 - 12/13/12 04:43 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: woodog]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: woodog
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
The issue for me is what can I put on my raisin bran other than milk?


This guy has an idea that might work for you... (at 25 seconds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJ02VB5Evk

Forrest

p.s. I guess from the Hoffman quotes thread my enjoyment of this song puts me squarely in the 'amateur' camp.


I remember Allan Sherman from Hello Muddah, Hello Fadduh. I just looked him up at Wiki and learned he died in 1973 at the age of 48.

From Wiki ... Late in his life, Sherman drank and ate heavily which resulted in a dangerous weight gain; he later developed diabetes and struggled with lung disease. In 1966, his wife Dee filed for divorce and received full custody of their son and daughter.

Sherman lived on unemployment benefits for a time and moved into the Motion Picture Home near Calabasas, California for a short time to lose weight. He died of emphysema at home in West Hollywood ten days before his 49th birthday. He is entombed in Culver City, California's Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery.


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#1999084 - 12/13/12 05:44 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Diane...]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3667
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
piano joy, I'm not a health nut but it does seem odd that only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood ... and the milk isn't even from our own species. I never gave that any thought until I started reading about nutrition.


That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.


Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?

Dave, I thought what you wrote was most funny! I smiled. I laughed actually! grin

Don't worry I think some people just lack humour.
And I just think Batman should look like this ! OH YES I do!
AND BATMAN, if you get this message. CALL ME! . . . grin




Diane, how about you toddle off now and forget the way back. Your contributions to this thread have been nothing short of puerile. We get it, you can't find a fella you think is worthy of you. I gotta say, I clicked on your photo link, and I'm sorry to say, you aint all that.. You've got no business ranting on about how most men aren't up to your standard. Off you go now - have fun on the teen forums...

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#1999134 - 12/13/12 08:07 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13812
Loc: Iowa City, IA
This topic has become a confused mess.

Let's bring it back to something somewhat musical or put it to bed.
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#1999204 - 12/13/12 11:03 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Most folks would have smiled. You didn't.



Yes I did.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1999210 - 12/13/12 11:17 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Batman definitely should not look like George Clooney in a nipple suit.

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#1999216 - 12/13/12 11:35 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Kreisler]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

Let's bring it back to something somewhat musical or put it to bed.


I played the batman theme at a recital when I was 8. I probably had less than 8% body fat at the time.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1999241 - 12/14/12 02:29 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: bennevis]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7980
Originally Posted By: bennevis


Human beings, unlike other species, aren't slaves to our genes. But for some people, it's still harder than for others to stay slim/lose weight. Some people are more attracted to eating than others, just as some people have addictive personalities.



Human beings, if not "slaves" to their genes, are still mostly governed by them, with some room to maneuver within the framework provided by them. And obviously, about some things, there's no wiggle room to be had. There are many genetically determined things about myself I would have changed at various times in my life if I could have, but that's not a possibility. I'm sure many people feel the same.

Quote:


The notion that some slim people can eat anything they want (and lots more than fat people), yet still remain slim, has been comprehensively debunked by numerous controlled studies. Self-reported so-called 'studies' are the source of this myth. How many people are able to spend 24 hours/day in the company of dieticians who can monitor exactly how many calories they are eating? A study I read recently showed that fat people under-report how much they ate by between 50 - 400%, while slim people tend to be more accurate, but still under-report generally. A lot of the 'missing calories' are from mindless snacking (which can be healthy fruit as well as unhealthy cookies, but they are all calories....) while watching TV, in between meals, with coffee breaks, while cooking and nibbling etc; others come from the under-estimation of how much food they are actually eating at mealtimes, or simply not realizing that what they are eating is a lot, lot more than 'one portion'. (BTW, a portion of steak/meat/fish is the size of a pack of cards).



The notion I have that some slim people can eat anything they want, yet still remain slim isn't based on a study - it's based on who I was from approximately 15 to 50. I wanted to gain some weight, but no matter how much I ate or what, it just didn't happen.

As far as studies based on self-reported data being debunked - AFAIK, such studies are still being done and are being published in reputable journals, so the debunking may not have been as comprehensive as you imagine.

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#1999270 - 12/14/12 05:34 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: wr]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: wr


The notion I have that some slim people can eat anything they want, yet still remain slim isn't based on a study - it's based on who I was from approximately 15 to 50. I wanted to gain some weight, but no matter how much I ate or what, it just didn't happen.

As far as studies based on self-reported data being debunked - AFAIK, such studies are still being done and are being published in reputable journals, so the debunking may not have been as comprehensive as you imagine.


There was recently a series of programs on Channel 4 in the UK where they put two people - one obese, the other very skinny - together to live for one week under constant monitoring. It was an eye opener for many viewers - including, I have to say, myself. The fat people were eating up to five times the amount of calories that the thin people were.

Then there was another series on the same channel, where they put whole families under 24-hour surveillance - CCTV was placed in all the rooms in their house (with the permission of the families involved). But what the participants didn't know was that they were also being followed everywhere they went by private investigators, who videoed them as they went to McD, KFC etc, etc. Beforehand, the people filled in comprehensive food diaries, which were given to dieticians to work out their daily (self-reported) calorie intake. Many, many of them seemed to be eating around 1500 cal/day, based on their food diaries, when in reality they were eating over 4000 cal/day, based on the 24-hour surveillance.

In yet another program shown a few years ago, this time on BBC TV, two friends - one slim, the other fat, were subjected to a series of tests, including basal metabolic rate (metabolic rate at rest) to find out whether the reason why the fat woman was fat was because she has a 'slow metabolism' (as she thought), because they both agreed that the slim woman ate far more than the fat one. Certainly, when they ate together in the café, the slim woman piled up her plate and finished it, while the fat one left hers half-finished. They were tested and monitored for one week, at the end of which the results were presented to them. The fat woman has a rather higher BMR than the slim one, as one would expect (after all, she has more fat cells and bigger fat cells to feed); and she ate twice as much as they both thought she did, most of the food being consumed in the privacy of her kitchen, or snacking while watching TV etc. Not in front of her friend, or other people. Whereas with the slim woman, she happily stuffed herself in front of others (and the cameras), but didn't snack at home - she ate far less at home than the fat woman....

If you think you really can't gain weight no matter how much you eat, see if you can live for one week with a fat person, and eat everything they eat, in exactly the same quantities.....even if you have to force yourself to grin. Then weigh yourself again at the end of that week.....

Or alternatively, just add a big tub of Ben & Jerry's (or Häagen-Dazs, or any other brand of your choice - just make sure it's full-fat and real ice-cream..) to your dinner every day - again force yourself to eat it if you have to (personally, I have no problem eating the lot in 5 minutes flat grin), and weigh yourself after one week. Just bear in mind that the ice-cream is in addition to your normal meals (including desserts etc), not a replacement for them.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#1999271 - 12/14/12 05:47 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: bennevis]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7980
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: wr


The notion I have that some slim people can eat anything they want, yet still remain slim isn't based on a study - it's based on who I was from approximately 15 to 50. I wanted to gain some weight, but no matter how much I ate or what, it just didn't happen.

As far as studies based on self-reported data being debunked - AFAIK, such studies are still being done and are being published in reputable journals, so the debunking may not have been as comprehensive as you imagine.


There was recently a series of programs on Channel 4 in the UK where they put two people - one obese, the other very skinny - together to live for one week under constant monitoring. It was an eye opener for many viewers - including, I have to say, myself. The fat people were eating up to five times the amount of calories that the thin people were.

Then there was another series on the same channel, where they put whole families under 24-hour surveillance - CCTV was placed in all the rooms in their house (with the permission of the families involved). But what the participants didn't know was that they were also being followed everywhere they went by private investigators, who videoed them as they went to McD, KFC etc, etc. Beforehand, the people filled in comprehensive food diaries, which were given to dieticians to work out their daily (self-reported) calorie intake. Many, many of them seemed to be eating around 1500 cal/day, based on their food diaries, when in reality they were eating over 4000 cal/day, based on the 24-hour surveillance.

In yet another program shown a few years ago, this time on BBC TV, two friends - one slim, the other fat, were subjected to a series of tests, including basal metabolic rate (metabolic rate at rest) to find out whether the reason why the fat woman was fat was because she has a 'slow metabolism' (as she thought), because they both agreed that the slim woman ate far more than the fat one. Certainly, when they ate together in the café, the slim woman piled up her plate and finished it, while the fat one left hers half-finished. They were tested and monitored for one week, at the end of which the results were presented to them. The fat woman has a rather higher BMR than the slim one, as one would expect (after all, she has more fat cells and bigger fat cells to feed); and she ate twice as much as they both thought she did, most of the food being consumed in the privacy of her kitchen, or snacking while watching TV etc. Not in front of her friend, or other people. Whereas with the slim woman, she happily stuffed herself in front of others (and the cameras), but didn't snack at home - she ate far less at home than the fat woman....

If you think you really can't gain weight no matter how much you eat, see if you can live for one week with a fat person, and eat everything they eat, in exactly the same quantities.....even if you have to force yourself to grin. Then weigh yourself again at the end of that week.....

Or alternatively, just add a big tub of Ben & Jerry's (or Häagen-Dazs, or any other brand of your choice - just make sure it's full-fat and real ice-cream..) to your dinner every day - again force yourself to eat it if you have to (personally, I have no problem eating the lot in 5 minutes flat grin), and weigh yourself after one week. Just bear in mind that the ice-cream is in addition to your normal meals (including desserts etc), not a replacement for them.


This is getting kind of sad - I'm outta here.

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