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#1995723 - 12/07/12 12:51 AM Rapidvoicer.com?
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
I just noticed this site advertised in the latest PTG Journal. Looks like some quick & dirty voicing tools sold at a premium. The videos did not impress me very much with the so-called improvement.

From the look of the tools, I imagine one of the techniques is to scratch with a dental tool in the string grooves to reduce some of the stridency in the tone. Of course you can buy a dental scraper for a few bucks at Harbor Freight.

He doesn't disclose very much about how this revolutionary system works - I guess you have to pay $150 for the webinar to find out. Hmmmm....

I'd be curious at what others make of this -

http://rapidvoicer.com/

_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1995725 - 12/07/12 12:59 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3319
I saw this in the Journal as well. My impression was the same as yours.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1995877 - 12/07/12 09:56 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
David, Las Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 206
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
Not impressed with the video either. The results are marginal using the usual tools that most voicing technicians already have. To me the result appears to be the same if I were to do a touch up voicing on a worn strike point just to break the percussive and unpleasant hammer strike without the needed filing. The tools are worth it if the voicer has the experienced ear and knows where to place the pick. String to hammer mating should be discussed as well.
_________________________
David Chadwick RPT
Las Vegas, Nevada
1923 Steinway "M"
1931 Mason Hamlin AA

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#1995888 - 12/07/12 10:25 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7157
Loc: France
This is not voiced.. Just broken so the tuning does not hurt.

The problem is about knowing what is a good piano tone made of.

But the guy seem to believe in what he say that may be an advantage...

Playing scales with sustain pedal is the oldest trick from pianoI dealers to sell pianos not prepared or with a harsh tone.. Which is the case of that Yamaha. noisy and percussive damped by near crown needling.. Close tone. No elasticity.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#1995995 - 12/07/12 02:06 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
I'm glad we got this discussion going, so at least if someone searches the web for more information they will find some alternative information. It could save a few people some money!
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#2174447 - 10/30/13 05:05 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: David, Las Vegas]
studio43 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Ohio
David, This is that guy in the video this thread is about....

This method is not scraping in the grooves or a pre voicing, it is actually using a high quality tool to needle into the hammers. it is much like a glovers needle. It can not be performed the same as with traditional needles as well as with this tool that my mentor found and developed.

He has been using it for 30 years and has probable voiced tens of thousands of pianos. Far more than any average technician. If you don't try it or use it, you can not make an educated comment. That's all, just try it. The tool kit is about $150.00 but the book and DVD are available on Amazon for $29.99 and I have since published a Kindle version for much less. https://www.createspace.com/4038498

Also, its just what I said above, you can't really know until you try it. If you want to read what those technicians have said who have tried this, read it here..... They tell the true story.

http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials
_________________________
Eric Michael Roberts
www.springboropianoservices.com

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#2174457 - 10/30/13 05:23 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
studio43 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Ohio
Ryan,

There is no scraping involved in our Rapid Voicer technique.

It is similar to voicing needles but different and woks well when applied to the strike point.

Here, I show it up close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxw4t_ClpCY&feature=share&list=UUr6Y5-1vlbLl4sOa91JpVDQ

or you can see more at the actual web site under videos http://www.pianotunertools.com
_________________________
Eric Michael Roberts
www.springboropianoservices.com

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#2174460 - 10/30/13 05:26 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
studio43 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Ohio
Ryan,

You are correct, this is a dental type tool but is a professional grade... In development I tried that cheap stuff from Harbor and it is not sharp enough or strong enough.

The Rapid Voicer is Dr. Grade, will not dull, can't be cut through with a saw type stuff. It is sharper than a needle and it is a must to do the technique.

I can bend and cut that Harbor Freight stuff in a few seconds....

Also, my mentor made some specific additions to the tool to make it work for this application and it is all explained in our web site and tutorials. Hope this helps.

http://www.pianotunertools.com
_________________________
Eric Michael Roberts
www.springboropianoservices.com

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#2174475 - 10/30/13 06:12 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: studio43]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1293
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: studio43
David, This is that guy in the video this thread is about....

This method is not scraping in the grooves or a pre voicing, it is actually using a high quality tool to needle into the hammers. it is much like a glovers needle. It can not be performed the same as with traditional needles as well as with this tool that my mentor found and developed.

He has been using it for 30 years and has probable voiced tens of thousands of pianos. Far more than any average technician. If you don't try it or use it, you can not make an educated comment. That's all, just try it. The tool kit is about $150.00 but the book and DVD are available on Amazon for $29.99 and I have since published a Kindle version for much less. https://www.createspace.com/4038498

Also, its just what I said above, you can't really know until you try it. If you want to read what those technicians have said who have tried this, read it here..... They tell the true story.

http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials


I have no doubt that it has an effect which in many cases may be beneficial. However, it is not the only way to get to to the needed 'zone of effectiveness' . Going through the side of the hammer gets to the same zone for all three strings in one stroke. The procedure advocated as "Angel Shot Voicing" also effectively targets the same zone of effectiveness.

Side-needle and Angel Shot are two ways to make the same thing happen that are quick, easy and effective.

Additionally, there are other zones of effectiveness. Poking around in the 11:00 to 1:00 zone will not increase sustain the way it may in the 3:00 and 9:00 zones, for example.

I'm enough of an experimenter that I might get the tool to try. However, it is unfortunate that we still have procedures being sold in piano technology with the "black box" or hocus-pocus approach that doesn't really disclose the operation or compare one procedure to another. I would rather see someone telling about the tool who has experience effectively voicing pianos using a variety of techniques.




_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2174486 - 10/30/13 06:35 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: kpembrook]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1619
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: kpembrook

I'm enough of an experimenter that I might get the tool to try. However, it is unfortunate that we still have procedures being sold in piano technology with the "black box" or hocus-pocus approach that doesn't really disclose the operation or compare one procedure to another. I would rather see someone telling about the tool who has experience effectively voicing pianos using a variety of techniques.



My sentiment exactly. This could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. There's not enough information supplied to make a responsible decision one way or the other. Some may wish to take a leap of faith and cut the check. A good demo that actually shows a tech voicing a tuned piano with the tool is what's really needed.
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicę

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

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#2174532 - 10/30/13 08:48 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7211
Loc: Rochester MN
There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2174586 - 10/30/13 11:54 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
David, Las Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 206
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?



Yes, Whatever happened to the granite bridge? As I recall there was some bonafide experimentation with much improved sustain, clarity, decay etc. I thought it to be a great idea but implementation would be difficult to say the least.
_________________________
David Chadwick RPT
Las Vegas, Nevada
1923 Steinway "M"
1931 Mason Hamlin AA

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#2174960 - 10/31/13 05:05 PM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1619
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?


Hmmm. Don't recall that one. confused
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicę

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

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#2175113 - 11/01/13 01:21 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: studio43]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: studio43
Ryan,

You are correct, this is a dental type tool but is a professional grade... In development I tried that cheap stuff from Harbor and it is not sharp enough or strong enough.

The Rapid Voicer is Dr. Grade, will not dull, can't be cut through with a saw type stuff. It is sharper than a needle and it is a must to do the technique.

I can bend and cut that Harbor Freight stuff in a few seconds....

Also, my mentor made some specific additions to the tool to make it work for this application and it is all explained in our web site and tutorials. Hope this helps.

http://www.pianotunertools.com




Eric,

Thank you for the response! It sounds like the tool is more substantial than it first appeared.

That being said I'm still very suspicious of any quick fixes or "magic" elixirs when it comes to voicing. However, if your clients are satisfied with the results, then you have the most important endorsement.


Edited by rysowers (11/01/13 01:22 AM)
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#2175116 - 11/01/13 01:39 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
From rapid voice website: "The Rapid Voicer System will revolutionize the way you approach voicing. This amazing new system makes service voicing attainable for all technicians. It is the only voicing method ever developed which contains precise and controlled elements for voicing a piano up or down quickly."

If the system is so revolutionary and amazing, why is the only testimonial on your website by someone named Harris Georgallis who doesn't even claim to be a technician.

Eric: If you want seasoned technicians to take your products seriously you need to get some endorsements from some tools to respected names in the business: someone like Don Mannino of Kawai, or Richard Davenport, or Steve Brady etc. You might even consider bringing the tools to a PTG convention.

Maybe it's the way in which the products are marketed that seemed a little "snake oil salesman" like. But I'll try to keep an open mind.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#2176326 - 11/03/13 09:38 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Ryan, I think you are spot on regarding his advertising. I looked at this thread, and noticed that Eric is in my area. I was curious, as he's someone I've never heard of. So, I went to his website. He prominently advertises that he does the tuning at Wright State University on the front page. Imagine my surprise, since I've been doing the work there for the last 5 years or so. If he is trying to build credibility with technicians, it's lost on me grin
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

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#2176802 - 11/04/13 07:14 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
William Steward Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 12
Loc: Cayman Islands
It would nice to hear a comment from someone who has experience with this tool. Except for Isaac's observations, these comments mostly focus on the quality of ad and credentials which seem beside the point. As a leap of faith I bought the carbon fiber hammer from Eric and like it it a lot - based on that experience his credibility is high with me. I agree that it is a lot to spend on a tool but if it lasts a lifetime, surely worth it.
_________________________
William Steward

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#2176817 - 11/04/13 08:08 AM Re: Rapidvoicer.com? [Re: rysowers]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4907
Loc: Bradford County, PA
I am trying to figure out how something that looks like a hawk's talon can be shoved 7/16 inch deep into a hammer. And if you did, how a piece of plastic tubing would prevent it from going too far.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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