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#1996560 - 12/08/12 07:15 PM Sample software pianos and Kontakt
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
I am opening a new thread to address this topic. This would detract from the problem the OP is having in the original thread. However, some misinformation has been presented with a contemptuous tone of ad hominem that requires a response. Anyone reading those posts might be persuaded to accept the misinformation as accurate.

To those reading thorough this thread, do not rely on anyone's (mis)interpretation. Look for verifiable facts. Try things out and experiment for yourself. Beware of people who will shoot others down instead of allowing the strength and weakness in their information to speak for itself. There is no harm is making mistakes. Throwing out insults and unwarranted accusations in order to discredit people should not be tolerated here.
_______________________

Many sampled piano software products written to play in the Kontakt sampler require the full version of Kontakt to run.

Originally Posted By: Macy
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
As I understand it, that demo mode limitation in Kontakt player does not apply to a valid Vintage D install because Vintage D is affiliated with NI. So the demo version should be all you need.

The way this is worded is confusing (to me at least). If you have a valid registration number for Vintage D it will release Kontakt from demo mode. Without the registration number it would run in demo mode. It doesn't really have anything to do with a special relationship between Galaxy and NI. It would work this way for any vendor with a product that was designed to work in the Kontakt player. The player is free and only works in demo mode when the plug-in is not registered.

No, the Vintage D has nothing to do with releasing Kontakt from a demo mode. The App is a Player (never in a demo mode) AND a demo of the full version. The Player is all you need for the Vintage D. You don't need the full version for the Vintage D and the Vintage D will NOT unlock the full version.


Kontakt Player is not a demo of Kontakt full version. It is a LITE version of Kontakt full version. A demo exists to provide a taste of a product. Kontakt Player has other functions aside from demonstrating features in Kontakt full. It is intended as a lite version to use plug-ins that are written to run without the features in Kontakt full. It contains demos of certain features that Kontakt full offers but it is not a demo version of Kontakt.

Both Kontakt Player and Kontakt full version run plug-ins in DEMO mode when the plug-in is not registered/authorized/activated (whatever term, in essence it is the same thing). You are incorrect about Kontakt Player "never [being] in a demo mode" I never said the plug-in would unlock the program. I was speaking figuratively not literally when I said it will release Kontakt from demo mode, which in effect is what is happening when the plug-in is registered. It is not literally unlocking it. The registration is releasing it. I clarified what I was saying in the last sentence, "The player is free and only works in demo mode when the plug-in is not registered."

The details of the way vendors write for Kontakt is not necessary to describe here. It would further detract from points being made already. Suffice it to say that there are several variations available to vendors. It gets increasingly expensive for the vendor to acquire the privilege of having all bells and whistles including the nice graphic in the Library panel. However, none of this has anything to do with Galaxy (and Heaviosity) being a business partner with NI. Other vendor's products could be written with the same requirements and accessibility to Kontakt (player or full versions) if they chose to sign up, pay the fees and sign the licenses. The business partnership is a separate arrangement involving marketing and supplying products. In and of itself it has no bearing on whether the product runs unregistered in Kontakt. That is not a part of their partnership.

I did not say you needed Kontakt full version to run Vintage D or The Giant for that matter.

Both the Kontakt full version and player do run plug-ins in demo mode if they are not registered.

Kontakt Player with The Giant in DEMO mode:








Kontakt full version in DEMO mode:







Originally Posted By: gvfarns
there is not interest in the full version of Kontakt (which has tons of added functionality like building your own software piano). When we say Kontakt here we almost always mean Kontakt PLAYER, which is free. The interest in this thread is using the player without demo mode restrictions. Kontakt player works without restriction on registered NI affiliated libraries like Vintage D and the Giant. For other libraries it works in demo mode.

The FULL Kontakt will play anything without the demo mode restriction, but almost no one in this forum is referring to that version. It's very expensive and few here use the additional functionality. If you have it for some other reason, it works, but it has not been referred to in this thread except by you, Ampy.

Plug-ins require validation to run in either the player or the full version of Kontakt without demo mode restriction. Also, I was speaking of the player until Macy specifically mentioned the full version. Regardless, your point is moot. Both versions are relevant. People interested in software pianos are going to encounter those that require the full version of Kontakt to work. It was a brief reference, however, your rant has taken up far more space if you are so passionate about it being off topic.

"…Almost no one on this forum refers to the full version of Kontakt" ? [paraphrased]. I have seen many people here who use sampled software pianos or are interested in using them. Even if this represents the minority they are still here and interested in this subject. Many sample software pianos require the full version of Kontakt to run.

"Expensive" ? The price of the full version Kontakt is relative. When people are spending upwards of $1000-$5000+ on digital pianos what is a few hundred dollars……and arguably well-spent on improving the sound?

The Kontakt Player is free but Kontakt full is required if you wish to run many sampled software pianos like 8dio's 1928 Legacy Grand, Imperfect Samples Walnut, Fazioli and White Baby Grand, Soundiron Emotional Piano and Cinesamples Piano in Blue.

Kontakt Full is only $399. At various times of the year it is available on sale for as little as half that price. There is a bundle called Komplete that includes 3 soft pianos, synthesizers, vintage keyboards, orchestral libraries, drums, recording effects, guitar amp simulators and much more for $399. Considering how people grow restless and seek to improve or add variety, a few hundred dollars is a lot less than buying a better piano which might not be significantly better in the area where software is stronger.

Digital pianos $400-$5000+

Rough figures of soft piano prices: Prices gathered from retailers and manufacturers as a rough reference and not intended to reflect lowest, average, MAP, MSRP, etc. Research prices for yourself. (note: some require a form of Kontakt, others require digital audio recording software $0-$400, some come with their own standalone players to run them.)
Kontakt full version: Imperfect Samples Fazioli, Walnut Grand and White Baby Grand are priced at $139 (lite) $199 (med) $299 (extreme)
Kontakt full version: 8dio 1928 Legacy Grand $199
Kontakt full verison: Soundiron Emotional Piano $139
Kontakt full version: Cinesamples Piano in Blue $99
Kontakt full version: Sampletekk pianos (various) $50-210
Own standalone player: Synthology Ivory pianos are available singularly from $170 to $320 for a bundle add $50 for the required ilok hardware key.
DAW required: Kawai EX Pro Concert Grand $115 add $50 for ilok key
Own standalone player: Vienna Imperial Grand bundle $770 add $30 for the Vienna key
STandalone or DAW: Steinberg The Grand $250 (Thank you! Bane)
Own standalone player: Quantum Leap Piano bundle $250 add $50 for ilok key
Own standalone or DAW: Truepianos $180
Own standalone or DAW: Pianoteq Stage $129, Standard $319, Pro $520
(Again, this is only a rough outline)



Originally Posted By: gvfarns
It's ok to feel like people are picking on you and get your feelings hurt, but if they are doing it because you are wrong and keep trying to "correct" people who know what they are talking about, it is very foolish to keep insisting that you are right without researching the matter further. So please don't.

You should look at that quote. You are talking about yourself and it is clear you are just pissed off because I said the wording in your post was confusing. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Brain damage. You certainly implied exactly what I said you did. If you had previously inferred it, that's also wrong, but it's your own personal problem. Had you not shared that incorrect inference here, no one else would have been subjected to it and there would be no confusion on the matter.

But anyway, if you did not intend to say what I quoted you as saying, then that's good. It's just a failure to communicate. If anyone wants to know the answer to the question musicmad posed, they can ignore your posts and get the correct info from the other posters in this thread.


This is beyond childish. This is also what is known as 'poisoning the well." Using emotionally charged language is a ploy to sway opinion towards a flawed point of view. Your mud slinging ad hominem is an effort to discredit me hoping people will percieve my information as tainted.

If I have said anything incorrectly why get so upset over it? Just state the correction.

Earlier I said you were confusing the concepts of inference and implication. You misunderstood that as well. You switched from using the word "imply" to using "infer." A speaker or writer implies something without putting it expressly. A listener or reader infers beyond what has been literally expressed. The point is you have made several incorrect inferences. You can claim I have implied anything you can imagine. There is nothing supporting your claims. It is, at best, conjecture. People must take your interpretation mixed with irrational accusations in order to see it your way. Squeak enough and you will get some oil.

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
And also your implication that Kontakt full will not play unlicensed libraries.

FACT: Kontakt full will only play unlicensed libraries in demo mode.

From the Kontakt FAQ on Native Instrument's website:





Originally Posted By: gvfarns
There have been a number of 3rd party VST's designed to work with Kontakt that we have discussed here and we know that they will not work with Kontakt player regardless of their registration status (the first to come to mind is cinesamples Piano in Blue, but there are tons). I also have the personal experience of playing unlicensed and 3rd party libraries in full Kontakt, so I know you are wrong on both points. How you got that incorrect understanding I cannot imagine.


How can I be wrong about things I did not even say? You made an error in comprehension and based this rant on your own mistake.

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
A 3rd party library (in case you remain confused) is one that is not NI affiliated, even if it is designed for Kontakt. It is that affiliation between Galaxy and NI that gives Vintage D (and other libraries that work with the player) the ability to be played outside demo mode

I have shown you are incorrect about playing outside of demo mode. They must be registered. The partnership between Galaxy and NI has nothing to do with it. Galaxy is still a 3rd party vendor even though they contracted with NI to produce a product sold under NI's brand. They are listed on NI's website as a 3rd party vendor right here:



To those reading through this thread, do not rely on anyone's (mis)interpretation. Look for verifiable facts. Try things out and experiment for yourself.


Edited by o0Ampy0o (12/08/12 08:49 PM)
Edit Reason: to add stanalone to The Grand

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#1996573 - 12/08/12 07:52 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Bane Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 91
Loc: USA
A quick edit for you, The Grand has a standalone version too. wink
_________________________
www.soundcloud.com/btrailblazer

Cable-Nelson upright piano, Casio WK-200, Mackie MR5MK2 monitors, Cubase Artist 7, Steinberg's The Grand 3, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 interface, Asus R500a-RS52 Windows 8, i5-3230M 2.6 gHz, 6GB RAM, 750GB HD (5400RPM)

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#1996574 - 12/08/12 07:54 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 563
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
To those reading thorough this thread, do not rely on anyone's (mis)interpretation. Look for verifiable facts. ....

Kontakt Player is not a demo of Kontakt full version.

Here is the direct quote from the Native Instruments web site at this page:

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kontakt-5-player/?page=2483

Quote:
Try out the KONTAKT 5 Demo Mode
KONTAKT 5 PLAYER doubles as a demo of the full version of KONTAKT 5,
so you can try out all the advanced KONTAKT 5 editing features with your own samples or our dedicated demo content.


So you should probably be arguing with Native Instruments about what their product is rather than us.


Edited by Macy (12/08/12 08:06 PM)
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Ravenscroft 275, True Keys American D, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1996594 - 12/08/12 08:46 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode)

Kontakt Player is not a demo of Kontakt full version. It is a LITE version of Kontakt full version. A demo exists to provide a taste of a product. Kontakt Player has other functions aside from demonstrating features in Kontakt full. It is intended as a lite version to use plug-ins that are written to run without the features in Kontakt full. It contains demos of certain features that Kontakt full offers but it is not a demo version of Kontakt.

NI does refer to it's function in demo mode for the full version features.

On that surface point I stand corrected.

However, the essence of the program in terms of function and usage is true to my description, not yours.

Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode)

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#1996611 - 12/08/12 09:47 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 563
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode)

Kontakt Player is not a demo of Kontakt full version. It is a LITE version of Kontakt full version. A demo exists to provide a taste of a product. Kontakt Player has other functions aside from demonstrating features in Kontakt full. It is intended as a lite version to use plug-ins that are written to run without the features in Kontakt full. It contains demos of certain features that Kontakt full offers but it is not a demo version of Kontakt.

NI does refer to it's function in demo mode for the full version features.

On that surface point I stand corrected.

However, the essence of the program in terms of function and usage is true to my description, not yours.

Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode)



First you are proven wrong. Now you are just quoting half the sentence I wrote.

Quote:
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode) AND a demo of the full version.

The Player function of the App is not a demo, it is a fully functional free Player. The Apps demo features are for the full version of Kontakt, which has nothing to do with the Player function that comes with the Vintage D. As soon as you register the Vintage D, then the Vintage D is fully functional in the Player. No one buys the Vintage D and then doesn't register it. Your arguments are wrong, misleading, didn't contribute anything to the original poster, and just waste of time here.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Ravenscroft 275, True Keys American D, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1996615 - 12/08/12 10:05 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: Macy]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: Macy
First you are proven wrong. Now you are just quoting half the sentence I wrote.

You did not prove anything. NI does say the player has a demo role for the full version. Yet the description of the product all over their website and throughout their literature refers to the additional role it serves. It is not simply a demo of the full version. That statement you quoted is taken out of context and ignores its other functions.

Originally Posted By: Macy
Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode) AND a demo of the full version.

The Player function of the App is not a demo, it is a fully functional free Player. The Apps demo features are for the full version of Kontakt, which has nothing to do with the Player function that comes with the Vintage D. As soon as you register the Vintage D, then the Vintage D is fully functional in the Player. No one buys the Vintage D and then doesn't register it. Your arguments are wrong, misleading, didn't contribute anything to the original poster, and just waste of time here.

Can the player functions be separated from the rest of the Kontakt Player?

No it cannot.

You cannot label half of the same program as a different product. The Kontakt Player is comprised of player functions and demo functions.

The rest of what you wrote is nonsense. What would stop people from distributing copies of Vintage D or The Giant if they ran uninhibited in Kontakt player without being registered? I tried The Giant installing and running a friend's copy before buying it.

The player runs in demo mode and you stated "the player never runs in demo mode".

Originally Posted By: Macy
The App is a Player (never in a demo mode)




Edited by o0Ampy0o (12/08/12 10:25 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify using unregistered Giant

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#1996616 - 12/08/12 10:06 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3669
Loc: North Carolina
Does anyone really care?

You buy a piano library.
You register it, and play it in Kontakt Player.
If you wish you can buy Kontakt Full to get more features.
That's all.

How does it work?
Why does it work?
Who cares?
It just works.

Now go play your pianos.
All of you.

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#1996618 - 12/08/12 10:08 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: MacMacMac]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Does anyone really care?

You buy a piano library.
You register it, and play it in Kontakt Player.
If you wish you can buy Kontakt Full to get more features.
That's all.

How does it work?
Why does it work?
Who cares?
It just works.

Now go play your pianos.
All of you.

If you don't no one is twisting anybody's arm to read the thread but the "now go play your pianos" is good advice.

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#1996655 - 12/08/12 11:43 PM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think it's better not to keep feeding Ampy. He or she now feels that his/her honor is defended--this thread was just a vent and should be treated that way.

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#1996670 - 12/09/12 12:03 AM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: gvfarns]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I think it's better not to keep feeding Ampy. He or she now feels that his/her honor is defended--this thread was just a vent and should be treated that way.

And now you're attempting to claim the moral high ground because your indefensible tactics have been exposed.

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#1996703 - 12/09/12 02:00 AM Re: Sample software pianos and Kontakt [Re: o0Ampy0o]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Side note: it is interesting that Acoustic Samples appear to have switched from Kontakt over to UVI Workstation, which is a player version of MOTU MachFive.

Greg.

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