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Hi guys

I am absolutely new to the world of pianos and just bought my very first piano (Roland HP505) that arrived on Tuesday. After doing quite a bit of research here on the piano world, I decided to get a Kawai CN34 but ended up buying a Roland. I am super excited and now its time to put in an effort and embark on the journey I have been meaning to for a few years now..

I have a question regarding my new Roland and would really appreciate if you guys can provide your expert opinions/suggestions as to how I should go about it.

I have noticed that about 5 keys on my keboard are unevenly spaced out i.e. the gap is more than usual as compared to the other keys. They dont touch the adjacent keys just as it is but I am not sure if that will happen as the keyboard sort of breaks in after a bit of playing.

One of the uneven spaced out keys to the right of the keyboard is fairly close to the one next to it. I believe that if someone plays some fast pieces on that side of the piano, the side to side movement, albeit very small, might cause the keys to rub against each other. I cant test it because I cant play piano a all

I have spoken to Roland and the guy mentioned that its not a design fault and it is normal to have some uneven spaces between the keys.. I am not convinced with the response!! As far as I know, they all should be uniformly spaced out as you would expect from a quality Roland product.. I am not sure what the implications are going to be for what I would be playing as a beginner but am a bit worried for the future as I plan to keep this piano for a good 7-8 years..

I told him that if it was a $700 piano, I would understand but I dont expect this from a $3700 piano. He was understanding and said "Of course we want you to be happy with your Roland product. Have a think about it and if it still bothers you, let us know and we would take that on board"

Now I dont know if its normal to have uneven spaces or not as this is my very first piano.. Apart from that, piano seems to be absolutely perfect!!

Could you people please advise me on what to do? I am a bit worried that if its normal for some keys to be uneven and I get this one replaced (if Roland agrees to do so), I might run the risk of getting the next one with some actual problem (this one seems absolutely perfect otherwise). If its normal, then I guess I should get this one looked at or replaced anyway..

Your help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks
Sherdil

Did you take a look at other examples in the shop, to see want you can expect from other models and from other brands?

There are often reports of uneven spacing and heights on even quite high end models, and given they are probably mass manufactured this may be expected. But it is only acceptable up to a undefined limit. Poor aesthetics that disturbs the owner, and certainly rubbing against adjacent keys are unacceptable on higher end models IMHO. The majority of DP's when new have quite even spacing.

A photo here would help.

Hi spanishbuddha

Thanks for your reply. The store is quite far from where I am so I am not considering visiting just yet. I did ring them and the guy said that the HP505 on display looks fine and there is no unusual spacing. May it is fine or may be he didnt look too closely.

I have attached a couple of pics to give you an idea..

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2233.jpg - This gap is just before the middle C

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2237.jpg

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2242.jpg - There are 2 keys in this pic that are uneven. If you look at the key to the left of the middle key, you will notice that its quite close to the key to its left (which also is uneven). I believe that this one might rub against each other as they are fairly close

Cheers

I am an owner of a HP-505, and my keyboard is perfectly fine. The HP-500 series models which I so far saw in shops have all been fine, as well. Yours is the first where I see it. Well it is indeed a really difficult decision to take, because to me it does not appear so extrem that I would expect you to run into technical problems with it, but I feel like you that the esthetics bothers a lot, and this is what we also payed for good money (otherwise we could have chosen a none-furniture model, which is not as much supposed to also looke nice in the living room).
As this kind of things are always painful to decide on: might you be able to let you present another 505 in the store, test its electronic features, keys and pedals, volume lever, headphone sockets, USB connectivity, etc... there for hours by playing around with everything extensively and then exchange it? If your store allows you such extended test, then it might be worse to try it that way. Like: comparing two instruments side by side and take home the better one. But if the store is lower on service and would not let you do this in a comfortable way, then I wouldn´t know neither how to decide.

Thanks for showing the photo's. It's tough to say because you've, quite rightly, taken them close up to show the difference. I would also like to see a view further back.

I do agree those gaps, unevenness, are a bit disappointing. Often a keybed looks fine from a distance, or viewed at a slant, or side on, but when we sit in front of it looking straight down ready to play and along the key-lengths, any differences becomes obvious, almost accented.

Can you not get to a store, any store, to see other DP's across all ranges to solidify your unhappiness, or put your mind at rest? If not ask for an exchange, but ask to see it first, or ask the store/dealer to take a look for you if it's a distant (online) sale.

In your case I think, given the amount you paid, it should be better, almost perfect and I would be disappointed and ask for an exchange.

Thought this may help....

http://tinyurl.com/d67lg4q

I don't really see the gaps that you refer to as a problem, I have an RD700 NX and I would say it is probably the same as yours.

There is a bit of a clue in the comment where you quote that the salesman may not have looked closely enough.

OK, measured with a micrometer the gaps would appear huge but as a piano keyboard, I agree, they are visible, if you want to look, but it has never been a problem with me.

Also I bought an RD300 S in March 1990 and played it frequently, at least three times a week, it was dropped once, it got scratched, bits got broken off the ends of the white keys, but they never stuck. It went into graceful retirement in August 2011, playing as good as the first time I tried it.

Thanks for all your responses guys, it is much appreciated!

@Marco M - Yeah I would expect that too mate! I might be a little picky here but it did bother me when I initially noticed it. Unfortunately I cannot test it as I cant play the piano at all (all I can do is tap the keys one by one). So even if the store presents me with 2 pianos to test, I wouldnt know which keyboard is better than the other... But because this was visual, I picked it up right away.. As Rolands have a 5 year warranty so if I pick up any other issues as I develop my skills along the way, I believe I can always get them rectified.

@spanishbuddha - I will try to take some pics later and post them but I can aasure you that its clearly visible even when standing up a bit far from the piano. I am thinking of driving down to the store today afternoon and checking the one they have on display (and may be some others).. If they are all mostly fine, then I think I might ask for a replacement!

@slipperkeys - Thanks for sharing the pic mate. Yeah mine is sorta similar. When I said closely, it was only my guess.. May be the one at the store is perfectly fine ! With mine, its very apparent so I might visit the store today and have a look myself. I dont know mate, I guess I just expected it to be fairly perfect given Roland's renowned for quality.

Any other suggestions/advice is welcome!

Thanks
Sherdil

Sherdil, in my opinion, if you're not entirely satisfied with any kind of product - regardless of brand, I would contact the dealer/distributor and explain the situation. If they're willing to offer a replacement, by all means take it.

I'm also a little curious as to why you ended up buying the Roland despite initially deciding upon the Kawai, but hey, they're both great pianos, so I'm sure your family would have been delighted with either model.

Cheers,
James
x

Hi mate!

Yeah I am going to visit the store today arvo to have a look at other pianos and if I notice that the other ones are pretty alright, I will get something done about this..

In regards to how I ended up with a Roland (I was surprised myself as I had my heart set on CN34), its because of following couple of reasons..

1) There is only one dealer here that sells Kawai (he is 5 mins drive from my place) and I wasnt really happy with their service. I visited them twice - during first visit they were helpful but during the second visit I got the impression that think that I am just wasting their time in asking questions (and it wasnt like I was bombarding them or anything).. I just stood there watching them as they deliberately attended other customers while I was waiting which was a real put off!! So I thought that if they are like that now, how am I going to deal with them if I come across an issue with my piano down the track?

2) The second dealer (unfortunately they didnt sell Kawais and is 45 mins drive from my house) on the other hand, was absolutely sensational!!! Not only I received an immaculate customer service, they offered me a really good price on Roland. He knew I had a budget and was really keen on CN34 (which I compared to HP503 during our conversation and it was clear that Kawai was a winner here) so he worked to get me a better deal! Even though I ended up paying $700 more as compared to CN34, I was happy.. And he's been nothing but supportive and helpful after hearing the issue I am having..

Not a family man yet mate but surely am delighted

Cheers

I looked closer to my HP-507, and found a couple of slightly uneven gaps. There is enough space though so the keys do not touch it other even if I slightly wiggle one of them from side to side.

You can test your piano even if you do not play at all - just put your index finger and the long finger to two adjacent keys which are close to it other, push the first key and release it but do not remove the finger entirely, then press the second key by the long finger and release it in the similar way, like you were typing (without force) and repeat this action many times by your fingers as fast as you can. You can rehearse on the table or the computer keyboard before trying it on your piano if you wish
You should have heard how such passages sound then someone plays piano.
For me, it does not cause any problems.

Hi, thanks for the explanation.

I agree, customer service from the dealer is very important. It's unfortunate that you had such a negative experience returning to your local store - perhaps the staff were just having a bad day?

I believe $700 more (than the CN34) is around what I'd expect to pay for an HP505, although you probably could have also gotten a CA65 for the same price.

Anyway, best of luck with the piano...and the family.

Cheers,
James
x

It's hard to tell from the close up picks. Digital keyboards usually have a pattern to the spacing between the naturals. And, I have no idea why they are manufactured this way.

Sherdil, I totally agree with you, to buy where the service is good. It is the only power we as the customers have. I have here 3 stores in town to buy a Roland, and I purchased it 100 km away. The one who gives me best service wins, nowadays. I am just fed up being treated bad and then being asked to pay a high price for it.
I maybe payed 50 EUR more, and have had some 50 EUR for the journey. But it feels good to know that the moeney was earned by somebody being a good guy, and not by somebody only interested in money and not in the customer at all.

So here are my findings after visiting the store today.. I had a look at a few Roland models and some other high end pianos (non DP's). I could see that in most of the pianos, there were a few keys that were unevenly spaced out. So I am now thinking that it may be a common occurrence.. I am not sure. I did see one FP7P whose keys were absolutely almost perfect and I sighed.... I am leaning towards keeping mine now as its otherwise absolutely perfect! What do you guys suggest?

My only worry is the 3rd pic that I posted (where one of the keys is too close). If I press it up and down like usual, it does not rub against the one next to it. But if I just slightly move it to the side, it certainly rubs. Is that meant to happen? Also guys can you please shed some light on how your keyboards look? Are all the keys even?? That might influence my decision..




Hi James

I don't believe that they were having a bad day as they were talking to the other customers fine, the customers who had some knowledge about pianos and were playing/testing them themselves. I, on the other hand, was relying on their staff to play it for me so I can make a decision! But anyway, its their loss...

It wouldn't be wise for me to stretch my budget to get a CA65 as an absolute beginner. It goes for $3999 here in Oz. This store offered me CN34 for $2350 (RRP is $2495) so $150 off from RRP.

RRP for Roland HP503 and HP505 is $2999 and $3699 respectively. I paid $3K for my HP505 so basically I got HP505 for the price of HP503 with an excellent customer service to go with it!! Cant complain about that.. That is how I said that I paid approx $700 more.. $3K instead of $2350 but that doesn't mean that the price difference between Kawai and Roland was this much. The RRP price difference between Kawai CN34 and Roland HP505 is actually $1200.

I doubt that the first store would have offered me a Kawai CA65 for $3300! Even 3K was way over my budget but I was so happy with the service and the fact that I got offered a good discount, I just thought to go for it




Very well said mate!

I´ll take you some fotos of mine, but I doubt it can be today.

Paul Barton, a great piano teacher, struggles manfully with a sticking "B" below middle "C" on a Yamaha acoustic upright....

Go to 12 mins 11 sec..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Aqr06paSE

Then he sorts it out at 12:17, without even acknowleging the problem! ( By the way, as always with Paul Barton, the whole thing is worth watching anyway)

In all my years playing and watching piano's I believe this is the only example of a key sticking on an instrument that I have ever known.

I think that from what I have seen your Roland is pretty standard. I understand the argument that perhaps in these days with CAD/CAM there should be total precision but in a way I rather enjoy the "organic" feel of the thing, it has a personality, a character, it is not just a load of parts meticulously assembled to be like the last one... or is it?

As for pressing the end of the key...

Yes, mine wiggle a bit too, but as I don't ever normally press the end of the key it doesn't concern me, I am expecting the keyboard to perform faultlessly for the next 20 years, as did my 300 s..
I have an old E. Hirsch upright with far bigger gaps and much more wiggle on the keys than my Rolands.

I am not trying to belittle the problem but you could order a custom made acoustic grand costing many thousands of whatever's, assembled carefully over a period of time to ensure all keys are even spaced, exactly the same height and "wiggle-free", have it delivered and decide you don't like the tone!
Piano's are like people, perfection is so hard to find.

I hope whatever course of action you decide to take, that when you get around to playing your digital piano you get the pleasure, the frustration, the satisfaction, the annoyance, the struggle and the joy I get from mine.

This is what I call a well assembled keyboard. No keys touching each other. No extraordinary big gaps. The keys which are closest to each other could be in touch if laterally pressing both to towards each other, but this would not render any real situation the keys would be used in. The possible lateral movement of one single key is so tiny, that neighbors during normal playing will not become touched. Keys might not be spaced as perfect as in a technical drawing, but perfect enough to build up a very evenly assembled keyboard.

Photos are taken from different positions in front of the keyboard, please use the menu buttons and display of the DP as reference points to locate the position.

http://i47.tinypic.com/1zo92md.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/24g2jv6.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/34dq39c.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/detyxe.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rmt5hu.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/wqzbsn.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2119lbp.jpg

All the best, Marco!

Very well said mate!

"Piano's are like people, perfection is so hard to find." - May be thats how it is

Yeah I have sorta decided that I wont be returning my Roland. It seems like its not a design fault and perhaps is a common occurrence in various digital pianos..



Didnt get this bit... What do you mean by pressing the end of the key?




Thanks for posting the pics Marco, much appreciated. After having a look at your pics (and as you mentioned that the keys might not be spaced as perfect as a in a technical drawing), I have come to a conclusion that this sort of minimal uneven spacing in DPs is something very normal and nothing to be worried about. For example in the pics below, I can see that the spacing in the C key is slightly more than the ones next to it. And the spacing I mentioned in my HP505 is the same, so I think its all good!

http://i46.tinypic.com/wqzbsn.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2rmt5hu.jpg


I would like to say a big thanks to all of you who have responded to my question and have provided valuable advice and feedback! It has really helped me in making the final call. The final outcome is that my Roland is absolutely normal and I will be keeping it I look forward to learn on and play this beautiful piano for years to come!!

Cheers
Sherdil

PS - Well if something goes wrong, I always have the warranty...

"Didnt get this bit... What do you mean by pressing the end of the key?"

By applying pressure to the key end vertical face and then pushing from side to side. I have small hands and use the ledges on tenths where both keys are white, eg, an "A" to the "C" ten notes up. (Bless, you, Frederick Chopin!)

Just to confirm, my Rolands are both like the ones in Marco's photos.

Makes a bit of sense now

Yeah me happy with me Roland..!

Thanks
Sherdil