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#1141816 - 09/27/05 08:49 AM playing along with guitar
2eyebipedal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 5
i used to play piano, but then quit, and now im starting again because my brother plays the guitar. if i can figure out what key he's playing in and then play a chord that matches that will it sound right? cuz he plays rock guitar and i wanted to play with him, by just keeping a beat and stuff. is that how id do it?

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#1141817 - 09/27/05 09:18 AM Re: playing along with guitar
MikeMcf31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Northern NJ
I did the same thing with a friend recently. I played left hand in basically octaves, keeping the bass rhythm and then the right hand I played in the higher octaves. We found that since the guitar is more midrange it sounded too muddy if I kept around middle C, so I played higher.

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#1141818 - 09/27/05 10:05 AM Re: playing along with guitar
John Delmore Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 373
Loc: Shreveport, LA
Yeah, that'll work. Just remember that he's gonna like keys like E, G, and perhaps D (if you're lucky!). C major is practically unknown among guitarists (in my experience, I do play some). Mike's comment is good, as to voicing.
_________________________
John Delmore
PTG Associate Member
"You don't have a Soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body."...C.S. Lewis
Bienvenue!: http://louisianaskyline.net/forums/index.php?

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#1141819 - 09/27/05 10:23 AM Re: playing along with guitar
2eyebipedal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 5
ok, he plays from tablature though. will that make it any different?

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#1141820 - 09/27/05 10:45 AM Re: playing along with guitar
pastafarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 379
Loc: Canada
I took up piano again seriously two weeks ago in order to play keyboards with a garage band.

Guitar tablature sites are everywhere and usually list chord progressions.

I've been using the chord charts to the songs and playing four-note triads (broken or as chords) and inversions along with the changes. The notes of the triads with a few passing tones form the basis of simple fills.

We have a bass player, so he usually drowns out anything i play in the octave below middle C, though that's not going to apply in your case.

For me, the hardest thing has been to make quick chord changes, though I'm finding that many changes can be made easier if you pay attention to shared notes and the advantages of particular inversions.

For example, in one song i have to move several times between C major and F major. It's easier (and actually sounds better!!) if I play CEGC then CFAC, without changing the position of fingers fingers 1 and 5. I then go into a Dminor, DFAD.

Edited to add: I should admit that I'm cheating with the "transpose" button on my keyboard. The actual chord sounds I'm making are B, E and C#m.
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

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#1141821 - 09/27/05 10:53 AM Re: playing along with guitar
2eyebipedal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 5
cool. thanks. i just gotta go and relearn all the basics again. \:D

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#1141822 - 09/27/05 11:28 AM Re: playing along with guitar
John Delmore Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 373
Loc: Shreveport, LA
Guitar players like these "weird" keys because the guitar strings are tuned to E,A,D,G,B, and E. This makes "simple" piano keys, like C, a real handful for guitar players. It won't matter that he plays from tab, but that will certainly help you, i.e. you won't have to "figure out" the chords. Have Fun!!
_________________________
John Delmore
PTG Associate Member
"You don't have a Soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body."...C.S. Lewis
Bienvenue!: http://louisianaskyline.net/forums/index.php?

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#1141823 - 09/27/05 04:35 PM Re: playing along with guitar
2eyebipedal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 5
thanks. he gave me the tab for the intro to adam's song by blink182 and i changed it to piano notes. it sounds pretty good. but on other songs it sounds weird. any heLP?

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#1141824 - 09/27/05 05:13 PM Re: playing along with guitar
MikeMcf31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Northern NJ
I would be lost trying to convert guitar tab notation to piano notes. Why cant guitar players conform to the rest of the music world. It's like that old joke - Q - How do you get a guitar player to stop playing?
A - Put sheet music in front of him

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#1141825 - 09/27/05 09:30 PM Re: playing along with guitar
2eyebipedal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 5
i have a little chart so its not bad.

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#1141826 - 10/08/05 05:44 PM Re: playing along with guitar
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
Hello

As a new member I am loathe to comment, especially as my ventures into pano are classical and meandered into this thread by accident. However, I am a pro level electric rock and steel string acoustic guitarist for my sins and I often need to play all manner of pop and rock tunes. Probaly the most popular guitar key for pop and rock songs is Am (the relative minor of C major), closely followed by Em. When required to jam with a pop song, playing by ear, 8 times out of ten the Am pentatonic scale on one of the five guitar positions will get you going.

So for piano accompaniementto guitar learn your Am and Em scales and the associated chords (I can elaborate if you want) and you will be well over half way there. Blink 182 is very simple guitar music really so don't worry, you will get it covered in no time.

The tab point is irrelevant as another commenatator has said - it is just a means of depicting a note postion diagrammatically on the fretboard. This can be useful for guitar (though it has limitations). Apart from being much easier for many people to read than notation, the guitar is different to piano in that the same note (same frequency) can often be played in more than one place on the guitar - unlike the piano. I say "often" because there is obviosuly a limit in the upper and lower ranges. In this respect at least the guitar can be trickier to play.

Key changes in guitar are very straightforward in reality - in simplictic terms it just involves a postion change on the fretboard - with repetition of the same chord shapes and scale patterns.

Best of luck, Adrian
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#1141827 - 10/15/05 06:37 PM Re: playing along with guitar
diddy1019 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 14
\:\)

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#1141828 - 10/16/05 07:49 PM Re: playing along with guitar
geek in the pink Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 340
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by pastafarian:

Edited to add: I should admit that I'm cheating with the "transpose" button on my keyboard. The actual chord sounds I'm making are B, E and C#m. [/b]
Heh, don't worry, guitar players cheat all the time...it's called the capo.

\:\)

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#1994891 - 12/05/12 05:55 AM Re: playing along with guitar [Re: 2eyebipedal]
Pengman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Try using the convertor at http://guitartabs2notes.cleverpages.co.uk

Currently this takes guitar chord shapes in the form of x23332 or similar, and produces notes on a treble stave. You can even ask it to name the notes (e.g. C, D# etc) if you want. In the pipeline is the conversion of linear guitar tabs in the format ---5--- etc and displaying the bottom 2 or 3 notes on a bass stave.

I'm a keyboard player and amateur programmer and I wrote this convertor in the hope that others would find it useful then discovered I actually found it very useful myself. OK it's not so valid with straightforward major or minor chords, but it comes into its own when faced with an F#9#5 and other slightly bizarre chords used by the likes of Steely Dan.
_________________________



Graham Stow
(Kawai CA5 and Roland Juno Stage)

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#1994952 - 12/05/12 10:08 AM Re: playing along with guitar [Re: 2eyebipedal]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Virginia, USA
Quote:
I would be lost trying to convert guitar tab notation to piano notes. Why cant guitar players conform to the rest of the music world. It's like that old joke - Q


There is a good reason for TAB. On a keyboard the note middle C can be played by pressing one key only. Middle C on a guitar can be played:
1 string 7th fret or 2nd string 3rd fret

Every note from A below middle C on up has more than one place you can play it.

Every scale can be played differently in different positions.
Standard notation does not accommodate this. So subsequently reading tab is 100x easier on a stringed instrument.

I play both guitar and keyboards, don't expect all guitarists to not know how to read sheet music. Especially ones who have had lessons or play jazz or classical!

Nine times out of 10 a guitarist or bassist can tell you exactly what chord goes when.

When I sit in with a band and I don't know the song I watch the guitarists hands. Generally if he is playing bar chords. The guitar is playing 1 of 2 chord tonics. Either the first string notes E to E in 1/2 steps or the 2nd string A to A in 1/2 steps.
You the can hear if its Major or Minor. The hard part comes when the guitar is acoustic and the guy plays with a capo!

One advantage a guitar has over a keyboard is the scales are the same shape regardless of key. So say the guitarist wants to transpose a lead from G to A, he only has move up 2 frets and play it exactly the same way. Not so easy on a keyboard because the scale doesn't feel the same under your fingers! That's why many keyboard players like that little transpose button. Until they forget they have set and play a different song! Then everyone stares at you like you just committed an unpardonable sin.

Playing with a guitarist is easy as long as he keeps his amp at a reasonable volume!

Many guitar songs are in C, its just not a popular key for Rock & Blues. Quite a number of Country, Bluegrass and Folk Tunes are in C.
_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#1995048 - 12/05/12 01:17 PM Re: playing along with guitar [Re: 2eyebipedal]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Right - look at it as rhythm piano and you'll do fine.
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1995506 - 12/06/12 02:45 PM Re: playing along with guitar [Re: Kbeaumont]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kbeaumont
There is a good reason for TAB. On a keyboard the note middle C can be played by pressing one key only. Middle C on a guitar can be played:
1 string 7th fret or 2nd string 3rd fret

Every note from A below middle C on up has more than one place you can play it.

Every scale can be played differently in different positions.
Standard notation does not accommodate this. So subsequently reading tab is 100x easier on a stringed instrument.

This is really interesting reasoning. I suppose this explains why all violin, viola, 'cello, double-bass music is written in tablature?

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1997334 - 12/10/12 11:08 AM Re: playing along with guitar [Re: 2eyebipedal]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Virginia, USA
Quote:
This is really interesting reasoning. I suppose this explains why all violin, viola, 'cello, double-bass music is written in tablature?


Way to go list instruments that don't have frets! Tab is based on guess what FRETS!

And just because it can be done, that makes it better? We have computers now too, should we not use them because Bach wrote scores by hand? A few software packages can easily convert from Tab to standard notation and vice versa.

I started playing the guitar classically using standard notation. I learned a lot faster using tab. And I play several instruments including the piano so I can read standard notation quite well.

Its the 21st century, so nothing can be improved upon from the 19th?

I know a violinist that plays guitar too, on the guitar he prefers to use tab! My daughter and niece both also play violin.
She plays chords on the guitar using chord diagrams above the music. Should we show disdain for them too because that's not how Segovia learned?





Edited by Kbeaumont (12/10/12 11:44 AM)
_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#1997418 - 12/10/12 03:55 PM Playing along with guitar [Re: Kbeaumont]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Family histories aside, pictures, diagrams, and finger-numbers are helpful when one is just starting to learn the instrument. Beyond the beginning stages, they become a crutch.

For many instruments, there are various ways to learn "faster". In most cases, speed is not a worthwhile goal.

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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