Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
66 registered (Bsw, Auver, AndrewJCW, 36251, butchkoch, 21 invisible), 1277 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1997779 - 12/11/12 08:28 AM Ranking of most frequently used key signatures?
BWV 846 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Silver Spring, Maryland
Does anyone know of a ranking/statistical analysis of the most frequently used key signatures in the standard/student piano repertoire?

Of course, I realize that C major will be number 1, major will probably be more common than minor, and key signatures with lots of sharps and flats are used less frequently. But it would be nice if there were something more precise.

Top
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
#1997820 - 12/11/12 10:47 AM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
BruceD Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 19642
Loc: Victoria, BC
This seems to be a rather bizarre question.

Surely there is a difference, too, between "standard" piano repertoire - covering everything by both major and lesser composers - and "student" piano repertoire written for those still developing technique and artistry, depending upon how far the student repertoire extends into the standard repertoire. Establishing that definition will certainly show that keys with fewer sharps and flats are much more common. Even a look at piano syllabi will show that early grades have pieces with fewer sharps and flats.

In the standard repertoire, it's a given that the more remote keys - those with four or more sharps and flats - are more frequently used starting with the Romantic period as "well-tempering" became the more universal form of tuning, but I still don't see any practical use for making a statistical analysis of such information.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think "it would be nice."

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#1997821 - 12/11/12 10:47 AM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 4150
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: BWV 846
Of course, I realize that C major will be number 1, major will probably be more common than minor, and key signatures with lots of sharps and flats are used less frequently.

I doubt the C major part of your statement.

Also... why on earth do you want an answer to this question? smile

Among the Beethoven sonatas at least, here's the answer:

G: 12.5%
Eb: 12.5%
c: 9.375%
A: 6.25%
C: 6.25%
Ab: 6.25%
E: 6.25%
D: 6.25%
F: 6.25%
f: 6.25%
Bb: 6.25%
c#: 3.125%
d: 3.125%
F#: 3.125%
g: 3.125%
e: 3.125%
_________________________
Schubert: D.959
Bach: F# major and F# minor, WTC I
Shostakovich: C major fugue from op.87

Top
#1997822 - 12/11/12 10:48 AM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
Nikolas Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 6309
Loc: UK
Jason, did you do that on your own?!?! Yikes...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1997832 - 12/11/12 11:12 AM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5552
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: BWV 846
Does anyone know of a ranking/statistical analysis of the most frequently used key signatures in the standard/student piano repertoire?

Of course, I realize that C major will be number 1, major will probably be more common than minor, and key signatures with lots of sharps and flats are used less frequently. But it would be nice if there were something more precise.


What exactly will you do with this information?
_________________________

website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Yamaha CP5 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

Top
#1997855 - 12/11/12 12:02 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20879
Loc: New York
Let's face it folks -- the only composer that matters is Chopin, right? grin

Off the top of my head, here's the "ranking" for Chopin (and BTW I'm pretty sure none of these are right): ha

Ab major
C# minor
C minor
Db major
Eb major
F minor
A minor
F# minor
Ab major.....oh wait a minute, did I already say that one? grin

Top
#1997857 - 12/11/12 12:06 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20879
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
....Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think "it would be nice."

Actually I would be a little interested to know what's the most common key for Chopin's works. I wouldn't be interested in anything else about the question, including because.....who knows how to do it, including because of the factors you mentioned.

And in fact, even if we did it for just a single composer like Chopin, it wouldn't be simple. Should we count a mazurka equally to a sonata? What do we do with the different keys of the different movements of a sonata? (Jason take note -- you'd need to re-do the Beethoven!) grin

P.S. to Jason: Nice job!!

Top
#1997858 - 12/11/12 12:09 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 23875
Loc: Oakland
How about the most common key signatures of Chopin's 24 Preludes? Or any number of other composer's sets of 24?
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#1997862 - 12/11/12 12:14 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BDB]
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 4150
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Jason, did you do that on your own?!?! Yikes...

Well, I program, so it was just a question of typing in the following data (the 32 key signatures in order): "['f','A','C','Eb','c','F','D','c','E','G','Bb','Ab','Eb','c#','D','G','d','Eb','g','G','C','F','f','F#','G','Eb','e','A','Bb','E','Ab','c']"... and then doing a little manipulation. Go Python.

Originally Posted By: BDB
How about the most common key signatures of Chopin's 24 Preludes? Or any number of other composer's sets of 24?

Nice... I was thinking of making the exact same joke! smile

-J
_________________________
Schubert: D.959
Bach: F# major and F# minor, WTC I
Shostakovich: C major fugue from op.87

Top
#1997863 - 12/11/12 12:14 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BDB]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20879
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BDB
How about the most common key signatures of Chopin's 24 Preludes? Or any number of other composer's sets of 24?

Yes -- like, what are the rankings for the Well Tempered Clavier? grin

Top
#1997870 - 12/11/12 12:34 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: Mark_C]
Verbum mirabilis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 210
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: BruceD
....Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think "it would be nice."

Actually I would be a little interested to know what's the most common key for Chopin's works. I wouldn't be interested in anything else about the question, including because.....who knows how to do it, including because of the factors you mentioned.


Actually, you got it right on your first try, at least if wikipedia can be trusted:

"twenty-four of Frédéric Chopin's piano pieces are in A-flat major, more than any other key."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-flat_major
_________________________
Working on
Bach: Toccata in D minor, BWV 913
Chopin: op. 47, op. 10 no. 12
Schubert: Impromptu in B-flat major


Top
#1997871 - 12/11/12 12:36 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
wouter79 Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 4506
_________________________

Top
#1997920 - 12/11/12 02:36 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
Vid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 1300
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Love what Chopin does in Ab Major!

Bach's WTC Bk 1 & 2:
C: 1/48
c: 1/48
Db: 1/48
db: 1/48
B: 1/48
...
etc.
wink

Edit: I see someone already beat me with this joke.


Edited by Vid (12/11/12 02:38 PM)
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

Top
#1997933 - 12/11/12 02:53 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
BWV 846 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Silver Spring, Maryland
To answer the “What exactly will you do with this information?” and “why on earth do you want an answer to this question?” questions, in learning scales, it seemed like an obvious question to me (but I tend to be above average in curiosity level). I don't really plan on doing anything with it, but I would like to know.

It's a bit like learning vocabulary of a foreign language and wondering how frequently the words you're learning are used (fortunately, there are frequency dictionaries to help with that, for example: http://www.amazon.com/Frequency-Dictionary-French-Vocabulary-Dictionaries/dp/0415775310).

Top
#1997940 - 12/11/12 03:03 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
BruceD Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 19642
Loc: Victoria, BC
BWV846 :

If you know all your key signatures and scales well, the frequency of individual keys in standard/student repertoire shouldn't matter at all, should it?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#1997944 - 12/11/12 03:14 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
The more knowledgeable you are as a musician the better equiped
you are to play music. Any knowledge or skill be it in sports or music, is to your benefit to know.

But to be fair to you, if you only want to play music contained in any piano book 1 in learning to play the piano, it is not likely you will ever need to know more than a couple of key signatures. But for the rest of the piano world, they would be anxious to learn them all, given the time and opportunity to explore them.

Top
#1997955 - 12/11/12 03:41 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
wouter79 Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 4506
I'm not so anxious to learn all scales, I prefer to focus on real compositions laugh
_________________________

Top
#1997965 - 12/11/12 04:06 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
BWV 846 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 132
Loc: Silver Spring, Maryland
The responses to my question remind me of a comment my dad (who lives in the "heartland") has made on many occasions about the difference between New Yorkers and others -- if you ask someone from anywhere else in the US what time it is, they will tell you the time, but if you ask a New Yorker, he/she will say, "What are you asking me for?"

I in no way endorse this stereotypical view of New Yorkers, but the responses did remind me of that.

Even if knowing the answer made no difference in what I study or how I practice, I would still like to know. I am a curious guy.

Top
#1997994 - 12/11/12 05:18 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 570
I think it is an interesting question too. There doesn't have to be a reason for answering other than sheer curiosity.

Top
#1997996 - 12/11/12 05:21 PM Re: Ranking of most frequently used key signatures? [Re: BWV 846]
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 4150
Loc: Bay Area, CA
A more interesting version of the question for me is something like: Calculate the variation (e.g. variance) among key signatures as a function of composer. What patterns do we see? We probably see more variation the more modern the composer, but not necessarily: Haydn would have a much greater variation-score than Beethoven.

-J
_________________________
Schubert: D.959
Bach: F# major and F# minor, WTC I
Shostakovich: C major fugue from op.87

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour - July 14, 2016!
Be sure to sign up now!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Helping you become a better player
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Upright piano on ashore of the Caspian Sea
by Maximillyan
11 minutes 42 seconds ago
Music Score Launch - Barbara Arens - Rendezvouz with Midnigh
by Nikolas
49 minutes 33 seconds ago
What next? Suggestions for an intermediate piece
by charliefreak100
58 minutes 15 seconds ago
Satellite City "Hot Stuff" CA Glue Glogs too Easily
by Musicdude
Today at 06:41 AM
Seeing Over the Top of a Yamaha U1/48" Piano
by RealFamilyMan
Today at 05:51 AM
Forum Stats
84,158 Registered Members
44 Forums
173,679 Topics
2,537,740 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission