Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1997874 - 12/11/12 12:46 PM More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack'
PNO40 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: A North Atlantic Island former...
Once more I find myself canvassing the collective wisdom of PW to help diagnose a problem with my piano. For the previous case, complete with details on the piano and its history, see here.

The piano was tuned last Friday and the tuner-tech did some surface filing of the hammers to take the edge off a very harsh upper tenor and treble section when played at mezzoforte or above. Today I discovered one of the notes giving off what I can only describe as a 'smacking' sound, a bit like the sound of stiff paper if you flick it or hit it with a pencil.

Here is the link to a YouTube recording of the offending hammer, the third into the treble section. I play the surrounding notes so that the contrast is clear, though the sound is so odd and distinctive that this was probably overkill.

Recording was using a Zoom Q2HD (in stereo) and though the sound is clear over weak laptop speakers, it is striking on headphones or proper amplification.

Does anyone have any ideas what this might be? A crack in the head or shaft? Or just the result of bad filing of the felt?

With thanks in advance,

P.

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

#1997894 - 12/11/12 01:28 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Just listening on my iPhone, it sounds like a loose hammer to hammer shank glue joint or a loose centerpin.
Things like this can present themselves at any time and are a common enough occurrence.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1997895 - 12/11/12 01:33 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1916
Loc: Suffolk, England
Technicians should be able to identify the problem better than I can - as rxd did while I was listening.

I can hear the difference but more than one note sounds a bit inconsistent to me on my laptop's speakers.

Voicing may well be the answer but I'd still check to make sure the hammers are aligned to the strings, the flange screws are tight / pins not loose, and the strings are well seated at the v-bar and bridge pins. Presumably the technician who is coming to voice the piano will attend to all that.

What does the tuner who came on Friday say?


Edited by Withindale (12/11/12 01:52 PM)
Edit Reason: rxd crossed in post
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#1997930 - 12/11/12 02:48 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8386
Loc: Georgia, USA
I’m no piano tech, but it sounds like a hammer to string alignment problem to me... like the hammer is not hitting all the strings at the same time or they are not level/aligned/mated.

Tone building/management and voicing are very important skills that not every tuner has…

Good luck with it.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1997950 - 12/11/12 03:26 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Yes. There are tonal problems on all the notes played. The OP is talking about the 'smacking' sound. You will hear it immediately as a difference in the starting transient of the note in question.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1997951 - 12/11/12 03:27 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: rxd]
PNO40 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: A North Atlantic Island former...
Originally Posted By: rxd
Just listening on my iPhone, it sounds like a loose hammer to hammer shank glue joint or a loose centerpin.
Things like this can present themselves at any time and are a common enough occurrence.


Thanks rxd. I'll pull out the action tomorrow and have a look to see if I can identify either of these.

P.

Top
#1997953 - 12/11/12 03:34 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: Withindale]
PNO40 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: A North Atlantic Island former...
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Voicing may well be the answer but I'd still check to make sure the hammers are aligned to the strings, the flange screws are tight / pins not loose, and the strings are well seated at the v-bar and bridge pins. Presumably the technician who is coming to voice the piano will attend to all that.

What does the tuner who came on Friday say?


Thanks Ian. I doubt whether this is a voicing issue as it is an entirely new sound which wasn't there last night and appeared today. Having again compared the recording with the real thing, I realise the recording doesn't bring out the sound of 'smacking paper' clearly enough, even if it does show the difference between the problem note and the others. It's also only an impact sound, independent of the strings resonating, though I admit this is not so clear on the recording (so much for the Zoom Q2HD Stereo!!). I'm still waiting for the tuner to get back to me, but he may well have to come an hear for himself unless I can engineer a better recording.

P.

Top
#1997957 - 12/11/12 03:43 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: rxd]
PNO40 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: A North Atlantic Island former...
Originally Posted By: rxd
The OP is talking about the 'smacking' sound. You will hear it as a difference in the starting transient of the note in question


That's precisely it, rxd. And that's probably why it is not as clear on the recording as it could be, given the difficulties of recording transients on digital recorders. That's an impressive set of ears you have, sir!

Top
#1997963 - 12/11/12 04:04 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Thank you.
No need to remove the action. The hammer will probably have some play in the glue joint and can often be pulled apart with just the fingers. If it doesn't come apart easily, special tools may be needed.

If it is the pinning, (the sounds are remarkably similar) there may be no other symptoms but the hammer assembly may have some play side to side. If the centre pin is actually coming out, you will see the pin shining between the flanges.

The pinning is really a job for an expert. The glue joint, of it comes apart easily, is readily apparent to fix but a professional would align the rest of the nearby hammers at least and tighten the flange screws before glueing in order to get the alignment correct first time.


Edited by rxd (12/11/12 04:38 PM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1997986 - 12/11/12 05:05 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1916
Loc: Suffolk, England
I was wondering about the sound of stiff paper! Now I can just hear it with my headphones on, but only because I've been told what to listen for.

Rick and I can be excused. Experienced tuners acquire enhanced powers to distinguish sounds, a fact establised by recent research at University College London. It caused quite a stir at the end of August.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#1998047 - 12/11/12 08:28 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1890
Loc: Philadelphia area


Its hard to tell much from the video. A good look at the strike point usually tells the story. And, how the hammer bounces off the string when played at different dynamics usually confirms the condition of the strike point. From what I can pickup from the video:

First; the unison is out.
Second; before you do anything, re-glue the hammer head to the shank. It can be tight on the shank and still click. This slight movement throws off the hammer head alignment.
Third; check that the strings are level and then that the hammer is mated to the to the leveled strings.

These steps should solve the problem. The hammer travel looks ok, so I doubt it's a travel or alignment problem caused by poor flange centers. It helps sometimes to re-seat the hammer flanges by loosening and then re-tightening the screws.

And always check for loose back check catchers.

Top
#1998180 - 12/12/12 03:36 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1933
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
PNO40,

To add another perspective to what's already been written: if this were my situation, I'd consider changing to another tuner. In my opinion, given that the tuning is only a few days old, the quality of all those unisons (with the possible exception of the fourth one, A5) leaves something to be desired, especially G#5 and A#5.

By the way, I also hear a little click on A5, but this one happens just before the hammer strikes the string, i.e. when the action starts moving. One can hear it both on the upwards (0:14) and the downwards run (0:18). I doubt that it's your fingernail on the keytop, because it's not evident on any of the other notes.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#1998268 - 12/12/12 10:25 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Just to clear up a few red herrings on here.

This Is mechanical noise, traveling faults or faulty hammer /string mating does not make a mechanical ('smacking') noise on the attack.

An owner is unlikely to be equipped to remove a hammerhead If it is on tight but clicking.

A loose flange screw has a deeper, more complex click, a loose Catcher clicks almost the same but after the attack.

Nor were we asked to critique the tuning since we don't know the entire story.

What's that wonderful Abraham Maslow quote somebody uses on here? 'if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail'.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998613 - 12/12/12 09:56 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1890
Loc: Philadelphia area
rxd, what your saying is true. But as your siggy sayz, "in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not.".

Which might explain why I have experienced 'smacking' sounds similar to the ones on the video from an out of tune unison with unlevel strings and poor hammer to string mating.

After a few seasons of humidity fluctuations, the flange contact to the Hammer rail may not be flush. Hence the suggestion to loosen and then re-tighten the butt flange screw. It is clearly not a diagnosis to the clicking problem, but is something that could contribute to the click sensation.

Both the flange and the butt catchers, although usually a lower pitch and more complex, do come in different pitches and complexities.

I know we were not 'asked' to critique the tuning but, the tuning effects many things in a piano. Often sensations perceived as buzzes and zings, are produced by poorly tuned unisons on strings with uneven travel tensions.

Noises and uneven attack can be a symptom of a combination of 2 or 3 different causes. There is a strong possibility that this is happen on this piano. I'm also hearing a slight metallic rattling as all the notes on the video are played. This could also be adding to the 'smack', especially if the problem note vibrates the rattle stronger than the other notes.

I'm putting my hammer back into my tool case as I await your diagnosis.

Top
#1998636 - 12/12/12 10:44 PM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Loose hammerhead, or loose hammer flange screw. Very characteristic sound.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
www.shusterpiano.com
www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
Dampp-Chaser Certified Installer
PianoDisc Certified Service Technician

Top
#1998753 - 12/13/12 04:18 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: rxd]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1933
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: rxd
Nor were we asked to critique the tuning since we don't know the entire story.

What's that wonderful Abraham Maslow quote somebody uses on here? 'if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail'.


Well, I was hoping that on a forum such as this, there would be an opportunity to comment on the quality (or possible shortage thereof) of a tuning that is only a few days old - in the interest of striving for the best possible service to the OP. But if I offended anyone or confused the issue by commenting on something that was not asked for by the OP, I apologise for my part in any "red herring".
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#1998759 - 12/13/12 05:28 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
I have already given my diagnosis and others have spoken on these issues far more eloquently than I. The sounds are easily distinguishable to an experienced tech.

What I really take issue with is our right, as respondents to go so far as to recommend the OP to get another tuner when we don't know the entire circumstances. For example, what is the state of the pinblock? What were the time constraints? How much pitch raise was involved? And that's just for starters. None of us, none of us, repetition intentional, know the circumstances.

Judgements of this nature, made from a point of view of ignorance of the circumstances, say more about the person making the judgement (and their upbringing and education, because they have never been taught this elementary principle) than they do about the OP's tuner. I have a lot more to say on this if anyone is interested.

Lecture over.

Quiz time.

Somebody heard a slight tick sound on a key in this video like the click of a fingernail on a key but it was not that.

Question, What else is it likely to be?

_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998784 - 12/13/12 07:13 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Loose nut on the keystop stick or a loose damper wire adjustment screw on the damper flange
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

Top
#1998800 - 12/13/12 08:04 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
Loose nut on the keystop stick or a loose damper wire adjustment screw on the damper flange


Possible, but I'm looking for a sound even more similar to a fingernail hitting a key and with the same timing.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998811 - 12/13/12 08:39 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Loose keytop.


Edited by CC2 and Chopin lover (12/13/12 08:40 AM)
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

Top
#1998815 - 12/13/12 08:46 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
Loose keytop.


That's exactly what I had in mind. I would concede that a loose key top is a slightly deeper sound than a fingernail but they are remarkably similar, arent they?
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998819 - 12/13/12 08:51 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: rxd]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Yes, especially ivory. You will definitely get a similar "ticking" sound when the nuts are loose on the keystop stick, although it would have slightly different timing, being more prominent on the "upstroke" of the key.
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

Top
#1998823 - 12/13/12 09:11 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7209
Loc: Rochester MN
Shouldn't "technical theory and pop-quiz" questions be in the Tuner/Tech Forum? There is plenty of bickering over there and we don't need it in Piano Forum.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1998824 - 12/13/12 09:13 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Exactly. It's all about tone quality and timing.

It has been said earlier in a very interesting article that piano tuners develop unusual skills. I equate this skill as not much different than an expert pest exterminator identifying different types of droppings. Very important skill but nobody does studies on that.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998825 - 12/13/12 09:14 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Seeker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 360
Loc: Rockville, MD
One of the things I learned about when I worked in software development and maintenance was a methodology for assisting in "problem determination". We were cautioned NOT to jump to any conclusions until we'd fully described the problem. Our initial conclusions were often wrong.

In any case, two of the most important questions we asked were: 1) WHEN did the problem start? and 2) "what has changed" recently?

PNO40 has provided some interesting answers to those questions.
Originally Posted By: PNO40
====SNIP====
The piano was tuned last Friday and the tuner-tech did some surface filing of the hammers to take the edge off a very harsh upper tenor and treble section when played at mezzoforte or above. Today I discovered one of the notes giving off what I can only describe as a 'smacking' sound, a bit like the sound of stiff paper if you flick it or hit it with a pencil.
========SNIP============

The new symptom is a 'smacking" sound.
It started AFTER his tuner-tech "...did some surface filing of the hammers...".

Of course I can't state with certainty that this is the case, but there might well be a link between that recent hammer filing and the new noises.

I, as several others have written, think that the problem is a matter of (probably newly loosened) hammer heads and/or pinning. Even a highly skilled technician could have loosened hammer heads and/or pins in the process of doing that "surface filing". It's also possible this job was done by a technician not all that skilled. Again - we can't say for sure, because we don't know how well the hammer heads were glued, nor do we know the condition of the pinning at the start of the filing job. What we DO know, at least from PNO40's description, is that this latest problem started AFTER the filing.

Regarding the wobbly unisons -- they wobbled after this latest tuning; they wobbled on the original recordings posted by PNO40. In both cases (as I recall, and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong), the recordings were made within a few days to a few weeks after the tuning. Unless the pins are loose on this piano, OR there were significant temperature and humidity swings, OR a lot of heavy playing done, I would expect the piano to be better in tune than it sounded in the recordings.

Not to offend, but, at this point, if it were my call, it would be to the local PTG chapter looking for another technician.
_________________________
Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")

Top
#1998834 - 12/13/12 09:48 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Quote:
Shouldn't "technical theory and pop-quiz" questions be in the Tuner/Tech Forum? There is plenty of bickering over there and we don't need it in Piano Forum.


I noticed from previous threads of yours Marty that you are not above giving advice of a technical nature on this forum, despite it being completely inaccurate. Here is an example of something you recently wrote in response to a Dampp Chaser question specific to sticky keys:

Quote:
The Kawai piano actions are known for being unaffected by humidity changes. "Sticky keys" generally are not a problem due to changes in RH with Kawai pianos.


So maybe, instead of chastising us for writing something of a technical nature, you should attempt to learn something from it!
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

Top
#1998845 - 12/13/12 10:06 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Andrew, no offence taken, i have no emptional attachment to what i wrote and a second opinion is always a good idea. What you say could well be true. We don't know the presenting condition of the piano and now, not only passing judgement on the tuning, we are putting ourselves in the position of judge and jury by deciding to apportion blame because the OP noticed some things after the piano had some attention from a tuner. As we all know, many things are noticed only after a piano has been tuned. It does not necessarily follow that the problems are iatrogenic, as you so right point out.

Both you and I know a lot but if we put all we know together, we still don't know enough about pre-existing conditions. Sure, we can have an educated guess but it would not hold up before an intelligent judge.

Any intelligent judges put there?
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998852 - 12/13/12 10:22 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1933
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
rxd,

Could I clear something up, please?

You say that no-one can know the circumstances. I disagree. If we take the time to read, we actually know quite a lot about the circumstances.

In the opening post of this thread, there's a link to a previous thread. The OP specifically put it there for us. In short, that previous thread says that the OP bought the piano from a rebuilder in June. Original pinblock, but new strings and re-felted hammers. From the one picture that shows tuning pins, they look new too. (I might be wrong, but from all of this I would infer that the torque of the pinblock is good enough to hold a tuning.)

It was then tuned four times in the three months leading up to the previous thread. In fact, he actually lists the specifics of each tuning there. 3 of the 4 were pitch raises, the third was left at 441 Hz, and the last tuning (mid October) he described as being "quite stable overall" after a month.

There was also a video link, which showed that the piano was tuned very close to 440 Hz. To me it sounded slightly above 440.

So the tuning I was referring to earlier in this thread, was the fifth tuning in about 5 months, and given the history, I doubt that there was a significant pitch raise involved.

The unisons we heard in this thread were less than a week old.

Based on all this information I wrote that if this were my situation, I would consider to change tuners. I do not see that as a "judgement made from a point of ignorance".

(In fact, I have been brought up not to judge from an ignorant position, and I hope to live up to that standard even on an internet forum.)
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#1998854 - 12/13/12 10:26 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Sometimes threads morph away from the original subject Marty.

I believe we are still dealing with the original post and suggestions arising from it. We just used a slightly more intriguing way of bringing things to light.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1998872 - 12/13/12 11:04 AM Re: More Sound Problems: Hammer 'Smack' [Re: PNO40]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7209
Loc: Rochester MN
CC2,

The original posting was about the use of the Dampp Chaser system and asked for replies from people who had experience with them.

Here is my full reply, and not your edited version.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Hi lori822,

Though I am a supporter of the use of the D-C systems to increase stability in pianos, having them installed on all three of my pianos, there is another consideration in your situation. Your Kawai RX has a composite action. The Kawai piano actions are known for being unaffected by humidity changes. "Sticky keys" generally are not a problem due to changes in RH with Kawai pianos. Is your piano tuner also a piano technician? It may be time for a full action regulation for your piano.

That being said, a D-C system would be most beneficial in maintaining tuning stability across the seasons. You mentioned living in a condo and it would be important to consider the type of HVAC system you have in your environment. That would be the starting point in determining the need for a full or partial D-C system.

I hope that there is some response from piano technicians in your area to offer additional insight. You might also pose the question in the 'tuner/technician' forum.


Inaccurate?

Is the Kawai composite action not another consideration?

Do you dispute that the Kawai action is known for being more trouble free in concern with swings in RH?

Would it be important to know if the tuner was also a technician?

On a three year old piano, might it not be time for a full regulation?

I offered no technical advice at all. I addressed how to approach the problem, as stated by the OP, in reference to my own experience.

I am not a piano technician. However, two of my skills are being able to read and comprehend the written word, and to play the piano at a very high level.

If anyone is interested, here is the link to the original thread.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1994488/1.html
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
> Robin Spielberg Playing in Maine! <
-------------------
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
150 registered (accordeur, ajames, 36251, 41 invisible), 2011 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75483 Members
42 Forums
156065 Topics
2291776 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Where is the new blood?
by Markarian
07/22/14 03:53 PM
Please Help!!
by OliviaWalter
07/22/14 01:39 PM
Performing Chopin's preludes
by JoelW
07/22/14 01:31 PM
Stephen Hough - Advice for talented piano students
by fnork
07/22/14 12:58 PM
Getting started with MIDI: One question.
by 90SITA
07/22/14 12:46 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission