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#1997404 - 12/10/12 03:02 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Well, I don't think there are any bad foods, just best and better choices.

But, the HUGE problem is that when someone is over-weight, it's really funny to me that they complain that their "knees" always hurt. I want to scream it's not their knees that's the problem, it's all the WEIGHT on their knees. Seems obvious to me but not to them!!! I try to hold my tongue . . . most of the time.

So weight just makes one lazy and not want to "do" things. Strips one of energy!

I suggest "Weight Watchers" if someone needs help. When you get the weight off, start an exercise program, or both. There are just too many health risks because one is so over weight that life becomes "NOT FUN" & one is just LAZY! ...with bad "knees"!! grin



Edited by Diane... (12/10/12 03:03 PM)
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Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#1997406 - 12/10/12 03:09 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3665
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
This thread is starting to get a bit preachy...

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#1997416 - 12/10/12 03:51 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Do men want a FAT woman in lingerie?
Well then we women DONT want a FAT man in a suit!



Now, THAT'S preaching! Just sayin' . . .


Edited by Diane... (12/10/12 03:51 PM)
_________________________
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Diane
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#1997439 - 12/10/12 04:35 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
What a horrible thing to say. Take your body fascism elsewhere.

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#1997501 - 12/10/12 06:30 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Well to add onto what's been said about weight, the more gradually you lose it, the more likely you are to keep it off permanently...

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#1997519 - 12/10/12 07:02 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Diane...]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4819
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Well, I don't think there are any bad foods, just best and better choices.

But, the HUGE problem is that when someone is over-weight, it's really funny to me that they complain that their "knees" always hurt. I want to scream it's not their knees that's the problem, it's all the WEIGHT on their knees. Seems obvious to me but not to them!!! I try to hold my tongue . . . most of the time.

So weight just makes one lazy and not want to "do" things. Strips one of energy!

I suggest "Weight Watchers" if someone needs help. When you get the weight off, start an exercise program, or both. There are just too many health risks because one is so over weight that life becomes "NOT FUN" & one is just LAZY! ...with bad "knees"!! grin


Your attitude is cruel, smug and ignorant.

1. There are many foods that are bad for you - for example: transfats, refined sugar, etc.

2. Complaints about bad knees are not "funny". Bad knees are not always associated with weight and even if they are, it's not amusing.

3. Being overweight makes one lazy? What is your source for this claim? I can assure you that most overweight people eat far less than you do and they still gain weight - with exercise. Often the problem is metabolic and inherited. Assuming all overweight people are lazy is like assuming all tall people have better eyesight.

4. I am overweight. If I follow Weight Watchers strictly I gain weight. I can maintain my weight if I eat not more than 1500 calories a day while going to the gym for a hard workout 3 to 4 times a week. To lose weight I must eat less than 1000 calories a day and I'm miserable. Yes, I saw the doctor. He told me "That's the way it is for some people. Live with it." Could you manage on 1000 calories a day, teaching full time, on your feet all day, raising children and keeping house?

5. Do you truly believe life is not fun for overweight people and they are all just lazy?

Your attitude is appalling. Shame on you.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1997535 - 12/10/12 07:19 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: signa]
Joke Fingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 9
I think diet is underestimated and piano players should think of themselves in similar terms to an athlete. For example most people don’t eat enough protein so the muscles in your hands etc will develop slower and take longer to recover. Magnesium is one of the most important chemicals for muscle contractions. When you consider the amount work the muscles in your fingers do, taking a supplement should be considered. Think of it this way if you were trying to get extremely fit which is what your asking your hands to do would your current diet be adequate. I starting taking a protein supplement six months ago and there is no question it has made a big difference.

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#1997543 - 12/10/12 07:30 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: gooddog]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Well, I don't think there are any bad foods, just best and better choices.

But, the HUGE problem is that when someone is over-weight, it's really funny to me that they complain that their "knees" always hurt. I want to scream it's not their knees that's the problem, it's all the WEIGHT on their knees. Seems obvious to me but not to them!!! I try to hold my tongue . . . most of the time.

So weight just makes one lazy and not want to "do" things. Strips one of energy!

I suggest "Weight Watchers" if someone needs help. When you get the weight off, start an exercise program, or both. There are just too many health risks because one is so over weight that life becomes "NOT FUN" & one is just LAZY! ...with bad "knees"!! grin


Your attitude is cruel, smug and ignorant.

1. There are many foods that are bad for you - for example: transfats, refined sugar, etc.

2. Complaints about bad knees are not "funny". Bad knees are not always associated with weight and even if they are, it's not amusing.

3. Being overweight makes one lazy? What is your source for this claim? I can assure you that most overweight people eat far less than you do and they still gain weight - with exercise. Often the problem is metabolic and inherited. Assuming all overweight people are lazy is like assuming all tall people have better eyesight.

4. I am overweight. If I follow Weight Watchers strictly I gain weight. I can maintain my weight if I eat not more than 1500 calories a day while going to the gym for a hard workout 3 to 4 times a week. To lose weight I must eat less than 1000 calories a day and I'm miserable. Yes, I saw the doctor. He told me "That's the way it is for some people. Live with it." Could you manage on 1000 calories a day, teaching full time, on your feet all day, raising children and keeping house?

5. Do you truly believe life is not fun for overweight people and they are all just lazy?

Your attitude is appalling. Shame on you.


Hi Deborah, I totally know what you mean-- that's just the way for some people. NYT personal finance expert and Stanford grad Ramit Sethi said that he looked like a supermodel in highschool-- a female supermodel.

However, have you considered joining a gym? Personal trainers make it their business to help people all day, and you'll probably find success with them. It's about balancing your intake (and eating healthy), with exercise too.

I'm a big fan of exercise-- dance, yoga, swimming, running, etc. (not so much soccer). Getting your heartrate up gives you a boost of endorphins and makes you feel good. If you're looking for ideas, check out FitSugar.

Even a brisk walk or a stretch will benefit your muscles.

It's not really about having time, it's about finding time. If none of us consciously made time for our health, then we'd be seriously sick.

Are you eating the right foods? I'm by no means a dietician, but I know that to barely survive, the average human must eat at least 1000 calories a day.

I don't count my calories, but I'm eating much more than 1000 calories a day and I'm able to maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle.

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#1997565 - 12/10/12 08:18 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4819
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Grace, you are not hearing me. I DO exercise. I belong to a gym - 3 to 4 times a week, hard workouts. I know how to work out and I know what good nutrition is, (I'm a retired chirorpractor). I eat only the right foods, (nothing refined, no artificial sweeetners, no prepared foods, tiny amounts of whole grains, lean meats, lots of water, veggies, fruit = 1000 calories a day and I count them). I just have the metabolism from h... as did my mother, and I have to live with it. I don't need fixing. Diane needs fixing.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1997571 - 12/10/12 08:33 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: gooddog]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Grace, you are not hearing me. I DO exercise. I belong to a gym - 3 to 4 times a week, hard workouts. I know how to work out and I know what good nutrition is, (I'm a retired chirorpractor). I eat only the right foods, (nothing refined, no artificial sweeetners, no prepared foods, tiny amounts of whole grains, lean meats, lots of water, veggies, fruit = 1000 calories a day and I count them). I just have the metabolism from h... as did my mother, and I have to live with it. I don't need fixing. Diane needs fixing.

Ahh that sounds very unlikely, since you're losing salts and whatnot when you sweat. Also, the muscle that you build will help you burn calories even when you're resting.

Even if you have a very bad metabolism naturally, you can speed it up by building muscle. Are you doing cardio with strength training?

Muscle burns more calories than fat.

I'm not saying that you need fixing, I had merely asked if you have considered a change in your lifestyle.

I'm a dancer and former gymnast so I have had my share of pains and injuries.

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#1997577 - 12/10/12 08:41 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4819
Loc: Seattle area, WA
You aren't listening. Forgive me, I'm a little testy. It's almost 6 pm and I've had only 380 calories so far today...and I went for a mile walk this morning at 4:30 before work.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1997579 - 12/10/12 08:45 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3831
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Deborah,

I don't think you're going to get anywhere here. Put down the computer and practice instead! smile

Congrats on your son's engagement btw.



-Jason
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#1997585 - 12/10/12 08:52 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: gooddog]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5640
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: gooddog


+1

I agree with you, Deborah.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1997588 - 12/10/12 08:54 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: beet31425]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Deborah, congratulations on your son's engagement! laugh

I am hearing what you're saying, but there are ways you can counter genetics. Genetics is only part of it, and I'm just trying to help.

Doctors aren't gods-- in the 18th century, doctors put leeches on people to 'heal' them. A lot of the medical field today is still a mystery, and a lot of it is just theory.

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#1997590 - 12/10/12 09:00 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Your help is unwanted. Why do some people find it so hard to believe an overweight person can be happy?

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#1997595 - 12/10/12 09:17 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: beet31425]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4819
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Deborah,

I don't think you're going to get anywhere here. Put down the computer and practice instead! smile

Congrats on your son's engagement btw.

-Jason
Thank you Jason! and I will go practice!
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1997596 - 12/10/12 09:17 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: debrucey]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Your help is unwanted. Why do some people find it so hard to believe an overweight person can be happy?

Anyone can be happy as long as they have the right mindset.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be happier.

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#1997600 - 12/10/12 09:23 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
DAVE_250 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 29
Joke Fingers, thank's for your post. It seems that musician's either don't talk about diet, don't consider it essential for better performance or they don't teach it to their students. In sport forums and magazines diet is a huge priority. Coaches and trainers are fully aware of benefits of diet, and educate their athletes.
What's even more scary is that more than 2/3 of serious musicians have had some kind of injury related playing an instrument or play in pain.
NOT SORRY TO SOUND PREACHY!!! Teachers need to start educating their students about poor food choices that will make them prone to injuries and interfere with their performances.

Side note - this is really not about being over weight, but more about preventing injury and enhancing performance.



@signa
A note on wheat
http://sph-publications.berkeley.edu/bho/2012/07/wheatophobia-wellness-letter/

Milk is high in estrogen. A symptom of drinking too much milk or milk products is adult acne. Oh Yah, and man boobs.


Refine Sugar is really bad for us in so many ways. When we practice a new skill ,let's say a new scale. After practicing this for fifteen min. or so, we stop, but our brain doesn't. Our mind takes 4-6 our to process new motor skills . If a musician has blood sugar crashes during this processing, than the mind won't learn it. Blood sugar crashes starve the brain.


Edited by DAVE_250 (12/10/12 09:37 PM)

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#1997603 - 12/10/12 09:38 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Of course not, but the problem I have is with your assumption that happier = thinner.

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#1997607 - 12/10/12 09:45 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: debrucey]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Of course not, but the problem I have is with your assumption that happier = thinner.


Nope, healthier = happier. It's not an assumption; it's scientifically proven.

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#1997611 - 12/10/12 09:52 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Not necessarily. And it's still not nice continue offering patronising advice where it's not wanted.


Edited by debrucey (12/10/12 09:53 PM)

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#1997625 - 12/10/12 10:35 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Bluoh]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Bluoh
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Of course not, but the problem I have is with your assumption that happier = thinner.


Nope, healthier = happier. It's not an assumption; it's scientifically proven.

Well you're assuming that thinner = healthier, which again, isn't true.
_________________________
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#1997681 - 12/11/12 12:43 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Kuanpiano]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Not necessarily. And it's still not nice continue offering patronising advice where it's not wanted.

First of all, a healthy person is generally happier than an unhealthy person. I'm not going to bother looking up the research for you.

Second, how is my advice patronising? It's not intended to be patronising.

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Originally Posted By: Bluoh
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Of course not, but the problem I have is with your assumption that happier = thinner.


Nope, healthier = happier. It's not an assumption; it's scientifically proven.

Well you're assuming that thinner = healthier, which again, isn't true.


My goodness! There's a lot of assuming going on.

I have never stated these things.

No, I'm saying that "overweight does not equal healthier than normal weight".

I am saying that "healthier = happier in general".

End of what I am saying.

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#1997734 - 12/11/12 04:48 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I was going to write something here ... started and stopped twice ...


forget it
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website

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#1997749 - 12/11/12 06:59 AM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Bluoh]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Originally Posted By: Bluoh

First of all, a healthy person is generally happier than an unhealthy person. I'm not going to bother looking up the research for you.


It depends on the methods by which they become healthier. If they are constantly fighting against their body's natural tendencies, whilst denying themselves all sorts of foods that they enjoy, filling every spare minute of their day with exercise and at the same time being told by people who find it easy that they just aren't trying hard enough, that doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness to me. I'd rather be overweight.

To say that healthier people are happier generally is not the same as saying that becoming healthier will make you happier, because this assumption is based on two extremes and ignores the complexities of the process of getting from one to the other.


Edited by debrucey (12/11/12 07:01 AM)

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#1997854 - 12/11/12 12:02 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: DAVE_250]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5423
As is often the case, when the touchy subject of weight and diets crop up, misconceptions and even insults get hurled around.... grin

I wasn't going to post any more here, but after reading some of the posts, I felt obliged to put my scientific hat on and correct some of the misconceptions.

First, some facts - all based on plenty of published scientific research. Assuming that the subjects are otherwise healthy (no genetic diseases or endocrine problems etc):

1)A man who is the same weight and height as a woman (i.e. they have the same BMI) will require more calories to stay the same weight, assuming they are equally active/inactive. That's because men have more muscle bulk than women, and muscle consumes more calories for its weight than fat, even at rest. It also follows that a muscular man or woman will burn more calories at rest than a man or woman of the same weight who is flabby.

2)A person who is heavier will have a higher metabolic rate than someone (of the same sex and body fat percentage) who is lighter, and therefore will need to consume more calories to stay the same weight. This is obviously common sense (more bloated fat cells consume more energy just to survive), but it is also easily proven under controlled conditions, using oxygen consumption studies etc.

3)A person who is heavier will also 'burn' more calories when doing the same activity than someone (of the same sex and body fat percentage) who is lighter. So, a fat person will burn more calories when walking/running the same distance at the same pace as slim person.

There are very few untreatable conditions that cause people to have a 'slow metabolism', and most of them (like Prader-Willi Syndrome which cause chronic hunger among many other problems) are genetic disorders that are easily recognized early on because of the many other health and/or mental problems they are associated with.

Some people who are naturally restless and fidgety tend to be slimmer than most others: it's often thought that they burn a lot of 'insensible' calories just by their fidgeting, but the truth is also that they tend to have short attention spans and often leave their plates unfinished, because there's something more pressing that they've thought of doing....

Therefore, it's obvious that dropping your daily calorie intake consistently will ensure weight loss until your calorie requirements drop sufficiently (due to weight loss = lower metabolic rate) to match your reduced calorie intake, when your weight will then stabilize at the new level. To reduce further, you'll have to reduce your calorie intake further. Exercise boosts your metabolism for a short time - intense exercise gives a longer-term increased calorie 'afterburn effect' after you stop, which is partly why short bursts of running followed by 'recovery' walking (or 'intervals' in sportspeople-speak) are more efficient than slow steady walking for an hour in terms of health gains.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#1997886 - 12/11/12 01:11 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: debrucey]
Bluoh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 421
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Originally Posted By: Bluoh

First of all, a healthy person is generally happier than an unhealthy person. I'm not going to bother looking up the research for you.


It depends on the methods by which they become healthier. If they are constantly fighting against their body's natural tendencies, whilst denying themselves all sorts of foods that they enjoy, filling every spare minute of their day with exercise and at the same time being told by people who find it easy that they just aren't trying hard enough, that doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness to me. I'd rather be overweight.

To say that healthier people are happier generally is not the same as saying that becoming healthier will make you happier, because this assumption is based on two extremes and ignores the complexities of the process of getting from one to the other.


You don't know what it means to be healthy then.

Originally Posted By: debrucey

If they are constantly fighting against their body's natural tendencies, whilst denying themselves all sorts of foods that they enjoy, filling every spare minute of their day with exercise


This is definitely unhealthy. You're confusing being healthy with something else, but forcing yourself to exercise every spare minute and not eating will never be classified as healthy. I think you're confusing being thin with being healthy.

Everything is about balance. People who exercise aren't stupid. They're not going to keep up a lifestyle that causes them pain.

Put simply, exercise releases endorphins that make you happier, reduces stress, helps you sleep better, etc. Plus it gives you a better body image.

I exercise in the ways that I enjoy and I eat the foods I love in moderation, but I'm not overweight.

Originally Posted By: debrucey

To say that healthier people are happier generally is not the same as saying that becoming healthier will make you happier, because this assumption is based on two extremes and ignores the complexities of the process of getting from one to the other.


Again, you're thinking that 'thinner' means 'healthier', which is not true.

If you go to tumblr's 'thinspiration' and 'pro-anorexia' blogs, you'll see girls working towards unrealistic goals of being unhealthily thin and underweight. This is dangerous.
However, if you visit 'fitblr' blogs, these are girls and guys who lead (or aspire to lead) 'healthy', balanced lives through exercise and good eating habits. And maintain healthy weights, while building muscle.

Muscle takes up less space than fat, so while athletes have a bit more muscle and may weigh a bit heavier than non-athletes, they generally do not look 'bigger'. Picture a dancer or a yogi.

There is a difference between being healthy and being just thin.

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#1997888 - 12/11/12 01:14 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: gooddog]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Well, I don't think there are any bad foods, just best and better choices.

But, the HUGE problem is that when someone is over-weight, it's really funny to me that they complain that their "knees" always hurt. I want to scream it's not their knees that's the problem, it's all the WEIGHT on their knees. Seems obvious to me but not to them!!! I try to hold my tongue . . . most of the time.

So weight just makes one lazy and not want to "do" things. Strips one of energy!

I suggest "Weight Watchers" if someone needs help. When you get the weight off, start an exercise program, or both. There are just too many health risks because one is so over weight that life becomes "NOT FUN" & one is just LAZY! ...with bad "knees"!! grin


Your attitude is cruel, smug and ignorant.

Your attitude is appalling. Shame on you.


I went out for a date with a guy who I thought had "class", but after our dinner of steak and lobster, he asked if he could scrap my potato and other things from my plate onto his . . . I said "I'm DONE . . . and left the restaurant and got a taxi home. Some people know what to do and how to say it, and others do not.

If you want the pleasure of my "company" & my conversation, you have to earn it!

I'm DONE here!
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#1997912 - 12/11/12 02:20 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Dave Horne]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
I was going to write something here ... started and stopped twice ...


forget it






As my dad used to say, " παν μέτρο άριστο "
_________________________
I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles




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#1997923 - 12/11/12 02:40 PM Re: Is diet underestimated [Re: Diane...]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3665
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Diane...


I went out for a date with a guy who I thought had "class", but after our dinner of steak and lobster, he asked if he could scrap my potato and other things from my plate onto his . . . I said "I'm DONE . . . and left the restaurant and got a taxi home. Some people know what to do and how to say it, and others do not.

If you want the pleasure of my "company" & my conversation, you have to earn it!

I'm DONE here!


Your obsession with your own dating life is irrelevant to this discussion. The world doesn't owe you a ripped movie star. Get over yourself.

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