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#1998028 - 12/11/12 07:11 PM Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
So it is time to ask a rather stupid question, but I believe I am caught in that finals week hangover where everything blurs together. I looked at the first movement of the Haydn sonata for a test, and assumed it was in sonata form, but most of the class think it was in rondo form. Enough so, that I am curious as to what others here think.

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#1998050 - 12/11/12 08:33 PM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 914
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I think its in sonata form. It has a clear development section and a typical harmonic scheme - 1st section I - V, 2nd section V7 - I. While the main 1st theme comes back I don't see it repeating enough times at different points to call it a rondo.
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#1998067 - 12/11/12 09:24 PM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 533
I have not looked at the score, but there is such a thing as hybrid sonata-rondo form like in many last movements of mozart piano concertos

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#1998075 - 12/11/12 09:51 PM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: boo1234]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3864
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: boo1234
I have not looked at the score, but there is such a thing as hybrid sonata-rondo form like in many last movements of mozart piano concertos


But not in the first movements. I haven't looked at the Haydn sonata the OP asks about, but casually thinking about Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven sonatas (and quartets and symphonies and concerti), I can't think of a single example of a first movement in Rondo form. Can anyone?

-J
_________________________
past: Schubert Bb Impromptu
present: Chopin 1st Ballade
future: Rachmaninoff B minor Prelude; Liszt 11th Hungarian Rhapsody

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#1998134 - 12/12/12 12:47 AM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Yeah, I thought it was regular sonata form the entire way. it yielded some cool surprises in the recap, but it was not a rondo.
That being said, when a majority of your class wants to say it is a sonata rondo, you do have to pause and ask.


Edited by jdhampton924 (12/12/12 12:49 AM)

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#1998211 - 12/12/12 07:00 AM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 862
Loc: Scotland
Definitely Sonata-form. Suggestions of any type of rondo are a bit bizarre, really.

John
_________________________
Vasa inania multum strepunt.

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#1998212 - 12/12/12 07:03 AM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: beet31425]
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 862
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: boo1234
I have not looked at the score, but there is such a thing as hybrid sonata-rondo form like in many last movements of mozart piano concertos


But not in the first movements. I haven't looked at the Haydn sonata the OP asks about, but casually thinking about Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven sonatas (and quartets and symphonies and concerti), I can't think of a single example of a first movement in Rondo form. Can anyone?

-J



Neither can I. There is a Rondo by Mozart that's in sonata-form.


John
_________________________
Vasa inania multum strepunt.

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#1999112 - 12/13/12 07:01 PM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: beet31425]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5644
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I haven't looked at the Haydn sonata the OP asks about, but casually thinking about Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven sonatas (and quartets and symphonies and concerti), I can't think of a single example of a first movement in Rondo form. Can anyone?

Haydn, Sonata in G Major, Hob. XVI: 39 is a strange "rondo" with the usual Haydn-esque variations on the A section.
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#1999336 - 12/14/12 09:55 AM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
We thank Papa Haydn for bridging the chasm after the wearying Baroque Era ... but by today’s standard Haydn’s Sonatas are dull and predictable ... the work under focus is typical of the Haydn format ... a chirpy Treble theme supported on strumming LH bass. (boring)

Thank goodness the later generations of Mozart, Beethoven and Chopin elevated the plot to something more groovy.

Imagine being one of the younger generation and having to play the whole of Sonata Hob 16/35 for an exam ... I’m glad to be and Old Dog.

PS By the way, we have got a thunderstorm on the go ... lightning and thunder followed by the heavens opening up ... mid-afternoon darkness ... must get
myself another cup of comforting tea.

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#1999436 - 12/14/12 02:08 PM Re: Haydn Sonata Hob 16/35 in C major [Re: jdhampton924]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think most of the class is clearly 100% wrong.

It's in sonata form. You can't even make a case for it being a grey area. People who thought it was a rondo should get zero points. You should get 100 points.


Originally Posted By: jdhampton924
So it is time to ask a rather stupid question, but I believe I am caught in that finals week hangover where everything blurs together. I looked at the first movement of the Haydn sonata for a test, and assumed it was in sonata form, but most of the class think it was in rondo form. Enough so, that I am curious as to what others here think.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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