Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Hand soreness

Thanks a lot for your PM, this will help a lot.

Here is a video of myself playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuaPhqvCujU

The view is not so great as it was filmed with my iPhone sitting at the same level as the keys but I have no support that could make it possible to record from above.

Even I can see that my hand twisting on the video so I could start working on that when I decide to start practicing again (when the pain wears off a little). Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

No problem, happy to help.

From the video, I don't see much twisting, but if the angle of your elbow is "real" and not an "optical illusion", then yes, there could be some twisting involved.

What I do see are wrist height, stretching, and isolation issues. It's clear from the video that there is a lot of tension in your playing. I'm not going to be the guy to say playing is 100% of your problem, though.. what's your day job? You would be surprised how often inflammation is attributed solely to whatever you happen to be doing (or were just recently doing) at the moment you feel the pain, when it could have been caused (or exacerbated) hours before by something completely different.

I work as a computer engineer :-\ My workstation is ergonomic but finger/hands overuse might not help me at all..

I just took a two week vacation from work and did not touch a computer for more than 30 minutes a day. I was playing piano for 4 hours+ though and I was feeling much pain in my hands and arms at the end of my vacation so I tend to think that the main problem is more of a piano technique problem than a computer keyboard typing technique problem.

I also never had any hand soreness before I started to play the piano.

My best bet right now would be to take some private lessons with a teacher who can teach me proper piano technique and also have someone knowledgeable who can verify my computer setup at work.

For now, I do the stretching exercises recommended on the following website a few times a day: http://www.will-harris.com/yoga/rsi.html

Thanks again for your help!

Computer engineer is a tough one. I spend a lot of time at the computer myself, and it is not an easy balance. I'd like you to keep your mind open to one critical idea that will help as you work on this overall issue: what you're doing at the keyboard is at least as big a contributor as what you are doing at the piano.

Ergonomic is great, but if you rest your wrists on a gel pad, it's almost as bad as resting them on the ground. When you do this, you isolate the fingers, which is very similar to isolation at the piano. The reason you feel it sooner/faster at the piano is because you push a heavier key down farther, and sometimes hold it much longer than on a typing keyboard. But make no mistake, the computer can cause inflammation just the same. It usually is not as severe, and the symptoms may go completely unnoticed for years (until you add another activity like playing the piano).

If my PM works out, try to apply the principles both to the piano and to the keyboard. Also, keep in mind that these kinds of injuries don't go away overnight. In some cases, they can take 6-12 months to heal, if they ever do heal. That's not to discourage you, just to give you an idea of what you'll be working with.

I agree with everything you write because of my own experience. I never had any problems with my hands or wrists before I started playing the piano. I have a teacher who is teaching me proper technique but I have been through a lot of physical problems. I used to (and sometimes still do) work with a computer for 10-12 hours a day. The way I always do it is with very low wrists resting on the table. Felt very comfortable. But then I started piano and after struggling with many things realized that my arm muscles were completely cramped and getting them back to shape has taken over a year and I am still not there completely. I have other issues also that I now realize are results of computer use and no exercise, but they never bothered me until I started playing.

Hello. I don't really want to hijack threads, but I don't see the point of starting a new one. I have no idea about posture etc (will do more reading up) but how are you supposed to tackle lateral strain of the wrists? When I am playing my left hand on the higher keys, I am sitting dead centre of the piano but my left arm is across my body and the wrist has to turn laterally so that the fingers are in the right positions. Do you know what I mean?

I've tried moving my body closer to the right side of the piano when playing these sections of songs to try get rid of the angle of my left arm across the body, but I can't see this being correct (jumping around all over the stool). I don't know if I just have to get my wrists used to these positions with some training.

Regards

You actually do have to lean, and quite a bit. The exact amount is different for each person, but you can't sit rigidly and play. It's uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it.

Aha, thanks. This will take some practice. Like everything else. I was just sitting in one position to give my hands a point of reference.

As depressing as it is, I'm still happy to see that I am not alone on that one... I have been so focused on fixing my piano technique that I might have overlooked what I have been doing wrong when I'm at the computer.

I might have developed some very bad habits because low wrists on the table also feels very comfortable to me.

floyd- A very common mistake (and one I used to have myself). It will be awkward at first, but eventually your hands will develop their own reference at the keys. Think about walking.. you don't keep your body in one place so your feet can find the ground. They learn where the ground is.

Pierre/outo- I discovered this one the hard way myself, several years ago. For me, it was a telephone, but all stresses add up. So, believe me, you're not even close to alone. I would guess that the vast majority of people type incorrectly at a keyboard.

Well, after the wrist concerns, I end up hurting my elbow My own fault, I tried playing some things which I learned back when I had obviously developed some finger strength (I haven't played for some years). Tried playing the same things now with no strength and ended tensing my right arm I guess. Will have to give it a couple days rest (sob) and then tackle my posture and alignment slowly.

Hola, I had this recently when working on my first 4 page piece, turns out after alot of teacher questioning, my blasted stool was too low! *facepalm*

Hope you get it sorted x

Can I just ask if the OP has got a medical condition which resulted in hand soreness which is completely non piano related? I practice a lot more than 30 minutes a day, especially when learning new pieces. I am frustrated until I get it right and that can take an hour or more. I never get sore hands. Professional concert pianists who play frequently with orchestras playing concertos do not get sore hands or they would discontinue doing what they do. I use a piano stool but before I had one, I used a dining chair which was too low. I have never played pieces more than two pages in length. Perhaps if I did play longer pieces on a regular basis, I would get sore hands too?

My hands are not "sore" actually, what I get is nerve symptoms, tingling and if I don't stop I get pins and needles. Once after a too long and hard computer session (couldn't help it because of a deadline) my palm actually burned for the rest of the day.

In the beginning I had some muscle pains in my hands from playing large chords but those went away pretty soon after I got used to it. I also used to get muscle pain because my teacher forced me to sit straight and not hang my shoulders. After my first lessons I felt like I had had some pretty heavy exercise

Learning better technique has enabled me to play as long as I want without muscle pain or tiredness. The nerve issues unfortunately recur every now and then, but if I avoid certain pieces I can still play for 2 hours without any trouble.

OP here- I didn't realize what a popular topic this would be! My own situation, as a rank beginner with no lessons, was that I slipped into atrocious posture esp. with my left hand, while trying to play chords with the wrong fingerings, I still haven't decided whether to start lessons, but I'm paying strict attention to hand posture and that seems to be the answer. As far as learning to play piano concertos, and classical music in general, although I enjoy going to the symphony, I do not aspire to play this music. My playing aspirations tend toward non-classical- jazz, pop, the American songbook, etc. I realize some consider these genres not real piano playing, but so be it. When I grow up, I want to play just like Allen Dale. Check him out online, he has about 600 videos on YouTube.

As I said, I do not get sore hands, but I do get a sore back from sitting at the piano for hours on end. I am a perfectionist and when I have a piece to learn, I am never satisfied until I have got it right and am impatient and will sit for hours going over it.

BUMP

Whenever I play a piece I am familiar with or some easy arrangements I don't get hand soreness.

But fast pieces especially repetitive pieces like Everyday by Carly Comando. Those make my hands sore real quick.


What is the issue here?

I can play anything from the two Aaron books without soreness but things with lots of triplets in it and lots of broken chords over and over.

It starts to get sore real quick.

Tough to diagnose based on that info, but you left a few clues to some pretty common issues that I think you can check a couple things and see if they don't help.

When you play pieces you already know, you tend to be more relaxed. When you are playing something you consider "fast", you tend to tense up. Look for locked fingers/hand positions, tightness in your forearms, gripping, an overall lack of fluidity (stop/start motions) in your arms/wrists. Any one of these can cause what you've described.

You may have a bad low wrist habit when playing things you aren't as familiar with. I don't know why this is common, but I've heard quite a few people now common that their wrists were too low, so it could be a common thread.

Also, when you play the same notes repetitively, your hand automatically tends to "lock" in one position. Vary it every so slightly to keep the motion going, your arms fluid and loose, and to help prevent muscle fatigue. Some people call it a "rocking" motion (up/down, left/right, small circles.. there are lots of ways to "rock", but the motions are VERY small so don't overdo it).

Hope it helps. If not, give us more symptoms. If you can post a video, even better.

Sorry, double-post. I got an error message the first time.

I played with both hands for the first time in ages last night in my lesson. Wow, did I get rusty! I didn't play long... I was too worried about what would happen. My wrist feels a little funny today, but not exactly sore (I wonder if I'm psyching myself out sometimes). I've also got the name of a doctor who treated a friend of my piano teacher, so hopefully I'll get a proper diagnosis soon. If it really is tendonitis as I suspect, I'm not sure what he can do, but then at least I will know for sure...