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#2001458 - 12/18/12 11:25 PM Warning about Sheet Music Plus
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
I've been plugging away with the Alfred Adult All In One. To help with my learning, I decided to purchase the audio and midi disks. The audio is a couple of CDs. But...

The MIDI disk is a FLOPPY DISK!!! I have seven computers - NONE of them have a floppy disk. Most computers don't come with a floppy any more. And I haven't seen software distributed on a floppy disk in the last decade! It is beyond stupid that any company would distribute files that can't be loaded to the vast majority of modern computers! What's worse that NO WHERE in their product description do they explain that it's distributed on a FLOPPY!

Edit: This was originally aimed at Alfred. However, one poster below pointed out that the primary fault lies with the retailer - in this case Sheet Music Plus. Their website does not describe the media.

Some blame still lies with Alfred. From their product web page (http://www.alfred.com/Products/Alfreds-B...1--00-5725.aspx), the media description is the same "General MIDI Disk". I searched their site and found nothing about what that means. So the customer has no idea that they are buying unusable media.

There are a lot of Alfred-lovers in this forum, so I doubt if what I write will have any effect on you. Each to his/her own, but they will never see my money again.

Of course, I will be very happy to share my "wonderful" product experience with anyone who will listen.

Dan.


Edited by Dan Clark (12/20/12 12:33 PM)
Edit Reason: Changed title

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#2001460 - 12/18/12 11:30 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8376
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2001463 - 12/18/12 11:35 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Kawai James]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Throwing it away is a better solution.

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#2001486 - 12/19/12 12:27 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Not sure which specific book/course you are referring to.

You are probably better off looking for the item you are interested in on their website. Then get the ISBN number. It is fairly categorized so you can make sure you are getting what you want. Additionally, some of the book covers have an icon representing the digital content media format.


This page describes "Format: Book & CD" or book only.


Here showing floppy disk:



Floppy disk:


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#2001505 - 12/19/12 01:40 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: Dan Clark
I've been plugging away with the Alfred Adult All In One. To help with my learning, I decided to purchase the audio and midi disks. The audio is a couple of CDs. But...

The MIDI disk is a FLOPPY DISK!!! I have seven computers - NONE of them have a floppy disk. Most computers don't come with a floppy any more. And I haven't seen software distributed on a floppy disk in the last decade! It is beyond stupid that any company would distribute files that can't be loaded to the vast majority of modern computers! What's worse that NO WHERE in their product description do they explain that it's distributed on a FLOPPY!

There are a lot of Alfred-lovers in this forum, so I doubt if what I write will have any effect on you. Each to his/her own, but they will never see my money again.

Of course, I will be very happy to share my "wonderful" product experience with anyone who will listen.

Dan.


Have you contacted them and asked for them to mail you a CD with those files or at least an electronic copy via email? You know, give them a chance to fix the problem before going online to complain.

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#2001518 - 12/19/12 02:22 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: ONfrank]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8376
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ONfrank
Have you contacted them and asked for them to mail you a CD with those files or at least an electronic copy via email? You know, give them a chance to fix the problem before going online to complain.


This.

In fact, given the small size of MIDI files, they may even offer to send you the data as a compressed zip archive.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2001546 - 12/19/12 03:38 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
Nomadness Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 145
Loc: Friday Harbor, WA
_________________________
Nomadic Research Labs
PX-5S aboard sailboat

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#2001616 - 12/19/12 09:11 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...There are a lot of Alfred-lovers in this forum, so I doubt if what I write will have any effect on you. Each to his/her own, but they will never see my money again. .."

Dan Clark, I congratulate you on your perseverance with your piano studies--- I know it isn't easy to keep it going.

It happens, with print music editions, that many are not such hot sellers that every copy flies off the shelves soon after publication. In fact, I've seen cases where one music store will buy out the stock of another which has gone out of business, and the individual copies can be quite old. They're not milk; they don't go sour within a few days, so they last and last in stock.

So you have acquired a technological antique. At the time floppy disks were first current, the CD had not been invented nor anticipated--- even the hard drive was an uncommon and unreliable device. So their day lasted for some 20 years or better.

I realize it's easy to fire off an angry post to a website (also not invented in the heyday of the floppy disc, by the way), but Alfred is a good publishing house which, I don't doubt, would prefer to make a customer happy--- and after all, what you are asking for is quite reasonable. Why don't you send your e-mail request to them? I don't see that we are in a position to do anything for you. The title you mentioned is still in print, and Alfred does use CD's these days; I like what they've done with packaging CD's with performance editions, for just the same reason you want one for the book you have--- the mind (mine, anyway) puts it together better if I can both see and hear and play.

In general, a civil tone evokes a more helpful response--- especially when firing your first round. Save the heavy artillery and the phalanxes of bombers until you need them. Sometimes the enemy surrenders the fort without the invader firing a single shot, or losing a single man.

I would imagine the external USB floppy reader would cost as much as the whole book did in the first place, and you would probably use it only this once. Ingenious solution for the techie, though.
_________________________
Clef


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#2001626 - 12/19/12 09:36 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Jeff Clef]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
Or you could go to the local library and use their old machines.

My work place has a couple of old machines specificially because some clients still use FDDs

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#2001641 - 12/19/12 10:11 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
I had a similar experience recently, where I ordered an accompaniment / demo for a church cantata, and they sent a - wait for it - a cassette tape. Really? I have no way of playing a tape, and even less interest in making the attempt. (It has been all CDs or digital downloads with all of the publishers I've dealt with for a number of years - replacing the previous all cassette tape technology).

Before long, we will be complaining that we were sent a product on a CD, technology long replaced by neural implant, or whatever!
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#2001650 - 12/19/12 10:45 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Melodialworks Music]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Before long, we will be complaining that we were sent a product on a CD, technology long replaced by.......whatever!

We are already there......"What? Media is not on Cloud?"

Mac Minis no longer ship with CD/DVD player.

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#2001748 - 12/19/12 02:35 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: o0Ampy0o]
susanmusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 111
Keystoimagination.com sells the MIDI files for educational publishers (including Alfred) as downloads or on USB thumb drive.
_________________________
Teacher. 1926 Steinway M. Kawai CE200. Casio PX3. Yamaha P-60. Yamaha NP-30. Roland C-30 Digital Harpsichord. Roland Integra 7.

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#2001909 - 12/19/12 10:23 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
It isn't a book. It's a midi disk that I bought from Sheet Music Plus. It's the Midi Disk specified here: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Alfr...I-Disk/3541299. It says the format is "Midi Disk". The only rational assumption to make would be "midi files on a CDRom".

And it has a copyright date of 1995. I have no idea about the quality of these files.

I guess they got me on this one. Nothing like making a buck at the expense of the customer.

I'm a normal person - I make mistakes all the time. It irritates when I make a mistake. However, I despise vendors that misstate or fail to clearly state what the customer is getting.

So why don't I send it back? Because the time and hassle of calling the vendor, getting an RMA, packing it up, and shipping it back is not cost-effective. For me, it's cheaper to throw that garbage in the trash.

Dan.

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#2001910 - 12/19/12 10:25 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Nomadness]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By: Nomadness


Thanks for the feedback. I wish I had read this before buying the Alfred stuff.

Dan.

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#2001912 - 12/19/12 10:33 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Jeff Clef]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...There are a lot of Alfred-lovers in this forum, so I doubt if what I write will have any effect on you. Each to his/her own, but they will never see my money again. .."

Dan Clark, I congratulate you on your perseverance with your piano studies--- I know it isn't easy to keep it going.

It happens, with print music editions, that many are not such hot sellers that every copy flies off the shelves soon after publication. In fact, I've seen cases where one music store will buy out the stock of another which has gone out of business, and the individual copies can be quite old. They're not milk; they don't go sour within a few days, so they last and last in stock.

So you have acquired a technological antique. At the time floppy disks were first current, the CD had not been invented nor anticipated--- even the hard drive was an uncommon and unreliable device. So their day lasted for some 20 years or better.

I realize it's easy to fire off an angry post to a website (also not invented in the heyday of the floppy disc, by the way), but Alfred is a good publishing house which, I don't doubt, would prefer to make a customer happy--- and after all, what you are asking for is quite reasonable. Why don't you send your e-mail request to them? I don't see that we are in a position to do anything for you. The title you mentioned is still in print, and Alfred does use CD's these days; I like what they've done with packaging CD's with performance editions, for just the same reason you want one for the book you have--- the mind (mine, anyway) puts it together better if I can both see and hear and play.

In general, a civil tone evokes a more helpful response--- especially when firing your first round. Save the heavy artillery and the phalanxes of bombers until you need them. Sometimes the enemy surrenders the fort without the invader firing a single shot, or losing a single man.

I would imagine the external USB floppy reader would cost as much as the whole book did in the first place, and you would probably use it only this once. Ingenious solution for the techie, though.


Clef,

In general, I agree with your points. That said, they knowingly sent out this thing. I'm not about waste my time dealing with an organization like that. And I'm not going to throw good money down a toilet getting a one-time-use floppy reader just so I can read that thing.

The other stuff associated music came on a CD, which was fine. Supposedly it lines up the the book. Unfortunately, this makes me question all of it - book, cd, midi files.

Dan.


Edited by Dan Clark (12/19/12 10:38 PM)

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#2001914 - 12/19/12 10:37 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
I had a similar experience recently, where I ordered an accompaniment / demo for a church cantata, and they sent a - wait for it - a cassette tape. Really? I have no way of playing a tape, and even less interest in making the attempt. (It has been all CDs or digital downloads with all of the publishers I've dealt with for a number of years - replacing the previous all cassette tape technology).

Before long, we will be complaining that we were sent a product on a CD, technology long replaced by neural implant, or whatever!

This whole episode makes me think that Alfred is a pretty backward company. Selling it as a digital download would would be much more cost effective for them and would keep customers happy. This is just nuts.

Dan.

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#2001917 - 12/19/12 10:39 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: Dan Clark
It isn't a book. It's a midi disk that I bought from Sheet Music Plus. It's the Midi Disk specified here: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Alfr...I-Disk/3541299. It says the format is "Midi Disk". The only rational assumption to make would be "midi files on a CDRom".

And it has a copyright date of 1995. I have no idea about the quality of these files.

I guess they got me on this one. Nothing like making a buck at the expense of the customer.

I'm a normal person - I make mistakes all the time. It irritates when I make a mistake. However, I despise vendors that misstate or fail to clearly state what the customer is getting.

So why don't I send it back? Because the time and hassle of calling the vendor, getting an RMA, packing it up, and shipping it back is not cost-effective. For me, it's cheaper to throw that garbage in the trash.

Dan.


But the question remains; did you ask the publisher to fix it for you or was the first thing on your mind to come here to rant and warn us all? It sounds like you haven't even tried.

By the way, disk = magnetic media, disc = optical media.
It's not like they deliberately misled you. The book was written and the notes prepared in 1995 and left as is. I don't see the problem. I don't expect a publisher to go back to change notes and descriptions (and issue notices to retailers) on near 17 year old books.

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#2001919 - 12/19/12 10:50 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: ONfrank]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By: ONfrank
Originally Posted By: Dan Clark
It isn't a book. It's a midi disk that I bought from Sheet Music Plus. It's the Midi Disk specified here: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Alfr...I-Disk/3541299. It says the format is "Midi Disk". The only rational assumption to make would be "midi files on a CDRom".

And it has a copyright date of 1995. I have no idea about the quality of these files.

I guess they got me on this one. Nothing like making a buck at the expense of the customer.

I'm a normal person - I make mistakes all the time. It irritates when I make a mistake. However, I despise vendors that misstate or fail to clearly state what the customer is getting.

So why don't I send it back? Because the time and hassle of calling the vendor, getting an RMA, packing it up, and shipping it back is not cost-effective. For me, it's cheaper to throw that garbage in the trash.

Dan.


But the question remains; did you ask the publisher to fix it for you or was the first thing on your mind to come here to rant and warn us all? It sounds like you haven't even tried.

By the way, disk = magnetic media, disc = optical media.
It's not like they deliberately misled you. The book was written and the notes prepared in 1995 and left as is. I don't see the problem. I don't expect a publisher to go back to change notes and descriptions (and issue notices to retailers) on near 17 year old books.

I have not and will not deal with a company like this. I've had my say. If you and others want to buy Alfred's stuff, that's your choice. I choose not to.

Dan.

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#2001932 - 12/19/12 11:27 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dan Clark
For me, it's cheaper to throw that garbage in the trash.


Perhaps you have a friend who has a floppy disc drive, or access to one at their work place. What about a computer store, that sells used computers? They might be able to help you out.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#2001938 - 12/20/12 12:14 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
I appreciate the advice, but I'm done with Alfred. I just threw out the book, cd, and floppy.

Dan.

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#2001941 - 12/20/12 12:26 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
So is your beef with the publisher or the store?

If you feel strongly that they are misleading and ripping people off to make a buck, I recommend a lawsuit. Perhaps even a class action if you can round up other victims.

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#2001958 - 12/20/12 02:00 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: ONfrank]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Alfred Publishing is not responsible for this mistake.

The source where you purchased the item (sheetmusicplus.com) did not adequately describe the product.

If you Google search using the ISBN you will see other sources describing the "diskette", "3.5" diskette" "1.44M, 3.5 Disk, DOS".

It is your choice to handle this with a dramatic toss to the trash can.

With a simple phone call or email you most likely would have your MIDI material.


Edited by o0Ampy0o (12/20/12 02:30 AM)

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#2001991 - 12/20/12 05:22 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Dan Clark
I have not and will not deal with a company like this. I've had my say. If you and others want to buy Alfred's stuff, that's your choice. I choose not to.

Dan.


You are simply being unreasonable. It might just be for the cost and time of one single telephone call that this issue could be sorted out. It is clear you don't want to give anyone the opportunity of fixing this, you'd rather just rant angrily about it on a public forum. How immature. Go away until you have something more constructive to say.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2001998 - 12/20/12 05:38 AM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
FFS this isn't even a problem, its not even a storm in a tea cup. But your reaction is this?

I'll tell you this for free. Piano and any musical instrument requires dedication and immense amounts of time and effort. There will be big setbacks, failures and frustrations.

I know, I've had many. Along with the highs.

If you can't cope with such a miniscule issue, then perhaps maybe piano isn't for you.

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#2002133 - 12/20/12 12:38 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: justpin]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
The fundamental problem is that neither Albert nor Sheet Music Plus care enough about their customers to clearly define what they are selling. Getting my money back doesn't solve the problem - deceptive marketing practices.

I am happy to spend productive time learning the piano. I will NOT spend non-productive time hassling with companies that use deceptive marketing practices.

I'm moving on. I ordered the Faber and Faber Adult Learning adventures.

Dan.


Edited by Dan Clark (12/20/12 12:38 PM)

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#2002135 - 12/20/12 12:41 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: EssBrace]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
It is reasonable to expose deceptive or shoddy marketing practices. I suggest that you follow your own advice - go away until you have something constructive to say.

Dan.

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#2002145 - 12/20/12 12:52 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Alfred is partly responsible. That said, I changed the title in my original post to focus on Sheet Music Plus.

In any case, searching for an ISBN is NOT reasonable when both the publisher and the retailer provide the exact same misleading information. No where on either site do they explain that "MIDI Disk" means "Floppy Disk".

Given that a floppy disk is an antique media that is not usable on virtually all current computers, IMO their lack of clarity is a marketing technique to get rid of old, unusable inventory.

Most people will either not use the media, or go through the hassle and expense of loading it. A few will go through the hassle of returning it. Almost no one will call them out for this. I.e. they keep getting away with this stunt.

I choose to call them out and express my displeasure. You can choose other options.

Dan.

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#2002158 - 12/20/12 01:16 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: Dan Clark]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Dan, even an HD (High Density, not Definition! smile ) Floppy holds no more than 2.2 or so MBs, so that could fit in an e-mail without breaking anyone's sweat. If you call them, they will probably send you a mail with the contents of the Floppy Disk.

Rafa.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#2002171 - 12/20/12 01:31 PM Re: Warning about Sheet Music Plus [Re: Dan Clark]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...I'm moving on. I ordered the Faber and Faber Adult Learning adventures. ..."

Well, Faber is ok. Maybe better than the Alfred All-In-One anyway.

The music store I buy from--- and usually order through--- gladly takes care of any problems that may happen with the merchandise. I can only think of one: a (pretty stout) collection of a composer's works had a number of pages in the center which didn't print properly. I overlooked the problem in the store, but I returned it and they reordered, and that was that.

I have less experience with http://sheetmusicplus.com , but I believe they're reputable and will accept returns. Anyway, I hope you have better luck with the Faber. They have some very nice collections for somewhat more advanced students, so you have some good stuff to look forward to.
_________________________
Clef


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#2002179 - 12/20/12 01:40 PM Re: Warning about Alfred Publishing [Re: RafaPolit]
Dan Clark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By: RafaPolit
Dan, even an HD (High Density, not Definition! smile ) Floppy holds no more than 2.2 or so MBs, so that could fit in an e-mail without breaking anyone's sweat. If you call them, they will probably send you a mail with the contents of the Floppy Disk.

Rafa.

Rafa,

You are 100% correct. From a business perspective, it's completely nuts to send a floppy disk to someone. They could reduce the price by at least 1/3 and increase profit. So why don't they do it?

Regards,

Dan.


Edited by Dan Clark (12/20/12 01:40 PM)

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