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#2001536 - 12/19/12 03:04 AM 2 octaves of scales...
Barmybird Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 11
Loc: UK
Hi Guys

I've been playing about a year and just trying to do 2 octave scales with both hands, and frankly finding it a nightmare.

Scales havent been a huge priority with my teacher, but I do know about 12 and can do them singley, L and R, but together is proving harder than I thought!

Anyone have any pearls of wisdom that helped you, or is it (as I'm told) just practise practise practise, and it will come?

Thanks smile

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#2001551 - 12/19/12 03:54 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
supertorpe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 110
Loc: Spain. Cadiz.
Hi, you can try this scales exercises (see other scales in my scribd account): 1 octave ascending right hand, 1 octave ascending left hand, 1 octave ascending both hands, 1 octave desscending right hand, 1 octave desscending left hand, 1 octave desscending both hands, 1 octave ascending-desscending right hand, 1 octave ascending-desscending left hand, 1 octave ascending-desscending both hands, 2 octaves ascending right hand, 2 octaves ascending left hand, 2 octaves ascending both hands, 2 octaves desscending right hand, 2 octaves desscending left hand, 2 octaves desscending both hands, 2 octaves ascending-desscending right hand, 2 octaves ascending-desscending left hand, 2 octaves ascending-desscending both hands.

One pearl for both hands 2 octaves: search pivot points where you use the same finger number of both hands. For example, C Major scale, the finger 3.


Edited by supertorpe (12/19/12 03:55 AM)
_________________________
Started learning piano: 01 March 2010
- Ex: Yamaha P-85, Kawai ES-4
- Current: Kawai CA-63
- Videos

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#2001578 - 12/19/12 06:10 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
Super slow practice...

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#2001596 - 12/19/12 07:57 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
bessel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 242
Loc: Ohio, USA

What Mark said... start really slow, single octave, so you get the hang of the two hands doing different things together. Start with just C major so you have less to worry about. Repeat many times/night.

Going from one octave to two is a little hitch but not a big deal, I think.
_________________________
Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.

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#2001612 - 12/19/12 09:05 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: bessel]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2310
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: bessel
Start with just C major so you have less to worry about.
Less than what?

C Major is the hardest of all the scales.

Start with B major, the easiest.

Play and hold the first note, position your fingers over the next note.

Repeat:
1. play and hold the next note
2. release the first note
3. position the fingers over the next note
_________________________
Richard

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#2001621 - 12/19/12 09:27 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: zrtf90]
supertorpe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 110
Loc: Spain. Cadiz.
I've found a very interesting article with tips for practicing scales.
_________________________
Started learning piano: 01 March 2010
- Ex: Yamaha P-85, Kawai ES-4
- Current: Kawai CA-63
- Videos

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#2001622 - 12/19/12 09:31 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: zrtf90]
bessel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 242
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: bessel
Start with just C major so you have less to worry about.
Less than what?

C Major is the hardest of all the scales.

Start with B major, the easiest.

Play and hold the first note, position your fingers over the next note.

Repeat:
1. play and hold the next note
2. release the first note
3. position the fingers over the next note



Obviously I meant "don't have to hit any black keys", which for me makes it easier, just because the white keys are larger, all at the same level, evenly spaced, etc etc. You're right though that Bmaj has a simpler pattern... but that didn't make it lots easier for me.

I don't see why you'd say that Cmaj is harder than, say Gmaj, Dmaj, etc, ie all those that have the same fingering but you have to find the black keys. I must not be understanding what you mean...
_________________________
Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.

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#2001628 - 12/19/12 09:39 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
Barmybird Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 11
Loc: UK
Wow thats all, Thats all really helpful! thanks for everyone for replying!!!

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#2001636 - 12/19/12 09:57 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2310
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: bessel
I don't see why you'd say that Cmaj is harder than, say Gmaj, Dmaj, etc, ie all those that have the same fingering but you have to find the black keys. I must not be understanding what you mean...

C major is generally accepted as the hardest because you don't have any black keys to assist on your geography of the keys.

The black keys make it easier to turn the thumb under while the finger is raised (assuming you use E minor fingering for G, LH, and B minor fingering for D, LH, etc, i.e. always 4th finger on F#).

B major is ideally suited to the shape of the hand. Chopin always taught B major first.
_________________________
Richard

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#2001643 - 12/19/12 10:15 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
bessel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 242
Loc: Ohio, USA
Thanks for the explanation... that's interesting.
_________________________
Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.

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#2001806 - 12/19/12 04:53 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 400
Loc: Montreal Canada
Hands together was a huge challenge at first and yes, go very slowly and take the time to position your hands and fingers in the right place before sounding the note. You need to be very very mindful of what you are doing, utmost focus on the task. I used to put little bits of color tape on some keys to remember where to put particular fingers on the way back down the scale. It worked marvelously well. The more you practice, the better you become. Accuracy 1st, speed afterwards.

John
_________________________
"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

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#2001811 - 12/19/12 05:04 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3156
Loc: Maine
If you're already able to do one octave hands together, then something to try to get to two octaves is to practice the point of going from the first octave to the second octave. For example in the C scale, practice something like the transition point BCD (or for an even smaller chunk, just CD). Then also practice it coming down, DCB or just CB. Then slowly add on a note in front and in back.

For more practice at that transition point, once you have the basic idea down, you can practice more consecutive octaves.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2001820 - 12/19/12 05:40 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: zrtf90]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: bessel
Start with just C major so you have less to worry about.
Less than what?

C Major is the hardest of all the scales.

Start with B major, the easiest.




Why do you consider C major the hardest scale? I've heard others say that too. I don't understand because it seems the easiest to me.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

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#2001829 - 12/19/12 05:54 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3156
Loc: Maine
I thought C major was easy, but recently I've returned to including scales in my practice (and I know the fingering for all of them now), and find it hardest because of what's been said: there are no landmarks. And so I get confused in one hand or the other or both about when to do "3 fingers, then cross" vs. "4 fingers, then cross". Even the single black key F# in G major is sufficient to keep me oriented, but the featureless white waste of C major raises difficulties.

I can see why it would seem easiest to start with because you don't have to remember when to go to a black key instead of a white key, but eventually that is no longer the primary concern.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2001834 - 12/19/12 05:58 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Tech 5]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 400
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: Tech 5
Why do you consider C major the hardest scale? I've heard others say that too. I don't understand because it seems the easiest to me.


When you start doing other keys like C#M, F#M, BM or Gm or a whole bunch of other ones for that matter, you'll notice the difference.

For some reason, I find the hardest one so far is B melodic minor going up, right hand.

John
_________________________
"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

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#2001859 - 12/19/12 06:57 PM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Tech 5]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2310
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: Tech 5
Why do you consider C major the hardest scale? I've heard others say that too. I don't understand because it seems the easiest to me.
As I mentioned in my first post, the black keys raise the finger making it easier to turn the thumb under so they're easier mechanically and they form landmarks where you can synchronise the hands more easily.

Learning where the black keys are in each scale is what makes them difficult but if you spend two to four weeks on each major key the first time you learn it you shouldn't have a difficulty with it after that. Learning the major and minor scales over a two year period won't hold back your progress.
_________________________
Richard

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#2002078 - 12/20/12 10:12 AM Re: 2 octaves of scales... [Re: Barmybird]
Kymber Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1348
Loc: MA
Yes, practice slowly until you get the groove and then it will be easier.

also the trick to doing multiple octave scales is to pay attention to what notes the third and fourth fingers play (it will play the same note for every octave) and just knowing when to switch. Everything else is automatic.

So for C major, left hand: the fourth finger plays the D and the third finger plays the E
Right hand: Third finger plays the E and the fourth finer plays the F.

So, if you always make sure those fingers are playing those notes you will be fine. I guess this is kind of hard to explain with out showing you. But, give it a try.

Good luck, you will get there smile
_________________________
“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee

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