Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards My Kawai love conundrum - help! CA65 or ES7?

Hi Qbert, I obviously love the ES7, but the stand w/ 3 pedal (HM4 & F301) is around $400-450. Plus will need a bench and maybe subwoofer. Yet, still cheaper than CA65.

ES7 total package is around $2,500
CA65 total package is $2,995

This is whats making my decisions so hard. Just as I lean towards ES7 I start thinking about $$ and CA65. For an extra $500 and very little compromise I can have a high end Kawai which also happens to be one of the best DPs on the market today.

I'll know more today when the Kawai dealer opens at 10am. Im planning to buy either one SOON if not today. Got $3k cash in hand. See if I can beat up the dealer a bit and get best deal possible. BTW, not sure if Pianoworld allows mentioning dealer's names in the forum, but this dealer is such an outstanding and knowledgeable guy. He has not put on ANY pressure whatsoever to buy, answers all my questions, and lets me hang out in his shop unattended for as long as I need to play. I also believe he is sincere and honest due to the fact that he encourage me to go play as many DPs as I can that he doesn't carry or sell. And I did, which is why I ruled out Roland, Korg, Nord, Casio, Kurzweil, and Yamaha (personal preference only - all make some incredible DPs that were pretty amazing to hear and play.) It will be my pleasure to give him my business and send him as many referrals as I can. Hopefully soon so I can just start playing again.

Check the "Prices Paid" thread on this forum. It will give you an idea of what is reasonable. Buying a pianos is fairly similar to buying a car -- you can make your own offer.

I would kinda believe, the wholesale cost, to the Dealer of a CA65, is about $1750 +/- $100. Just from some of the numbers I see bantied about.

Think in those terms.

And yes, scour the prices paid. That, and this forum, is where I found how to save alot of money.

You can definately do better than 3000 on the ca65. Try telling them 2600-2700 and I think they will bite or somewhere around there.

I purchased the Kawai CA 65 about 3 and half months ago. I must say it is a good instrument, best in its price range. Nothing comes close, in my opinion. I learn about it everyday, it's got some pretty cool features. And the internal songs in the piano are a pleasure to listen to. 3 months on, it still amazes me.

For me, I was considering the Yamaha CLP 440, Roland Hp505 and Kawai CA65.
I quickly dismissed Yamaha because I felt it was too average and nothing too slick about it.
And I didn't like the clunkiness of the keys. I can't stand clunky keys.

So I started comparing the HP505 and th CA65. I must say tho that the Roland HP505 has a clunky keyboard too, perhaps louder than Yamaha but I'd happily take the Roland over Yamaha because it has woodtone keys. And it's got better speakers and is louder and just sounds better.

But for me the Kawai was the winner hands down. I just love the Grand Feel Action. It is by far the quietest board as far as clunkiness is concerned. The action is great, the sound is great too, of course all this is subjective, but all I'm saying is you won't regret your decision if you purchase it.

Also just a thank you to the forum, coz I was so close to buying th Yamaha, but found out about Kawai on this forum. I didn't even know Kawai did digital pianos until about 5 months ago.
Anyways good luck.

I'm also the proud owner of the Kawai CA65 since a couple of months. I made the decision after searching the internet for reviews. Most reviews are very positive concerning the higher end DP's from Kawai. In the store they had other brands too ( Roland ), but those didn't have the same nice touch as the CA65/95.
I don't use all the bells and whistles that come with it, I just needed a good DP with an action as realistic as possible and with a good sound. And I'm happy with the choice I made. I'm still a beginner ( only Burgmullers Arabesque, Musette in D, Menuet 114 etc in my 'repertoire' ) so take my view with a big grain of salt...
Recently I played on the Kawai K3 accoustic and I was honestly a bit underwelmed by the sound I got from it. Probably my expectations were too high, but still, I appreciate the clear sound from my CA65 more. Maybe it's just because I'm used to that sound.

For everyone that has already purchased a Kawai...

Congratulations, on a very good choice!

Well, I finally made a purchase this afternoon. I loved this piano from the start in the store and now hopefully at home. It financially makes sense for what my needs are and skill level.

And the winner is.....

ES7!

Thoughts so far after 6 hours of nonstop play now in my house:

PROS:
- great deal - paid $1700 in tax free NH
- feel/action RHII is outstanding for portable
- 30 sounds - more than enough. only wanted a handful of piano sounds
- piano sounds absolutely amazing through Bose headphones
- size; can bring it with me anywhere. Fits perfectly in my den (and car when needed to travel.)
- 100 rhythm section sounds great. Did not think I wanted but liked immediately. Fun and authentic sounding,
- many nice features same as CA65&95 for $1,000 less. However, CA65 is superior in MANY ways only depending on what you want and/or need in a DP.

CONS
- speakers are ok at mid volume. Distortion in left speaker at lower keys especially D and A when hit hard and semi-loud. WT* Kawai? why only 15x15w speakers in such an amazing piano! The distortion is not as bad but similar to FP7F that I tested last month - which was one of several reason i ruled it out. Again, not as bad but still a bummer. I had to plug in my Polk subwoofer asap to see if it would make it better. Big help! However, my bad, I should have cranked it in the shop when I had the chance.

First impression: This is an absolutely amazing portable piano. Best sound and action of any portable Yamaha, Roland, Nord and Korg I tested. Yes, the speakers are weak but still sound pretty good at low levels. Subwoofer a must if you want to beef it up. I bought the ES7 mostly to practice with headphones and it sounds beyond my expectations. IMO better than Roland FP7f, 700nx, later Yamaha CPs and just as good as CA65/95... unless you have incredible dog-like hearing. Again, IMO only. Bottom line - If next ES(8?) uses CP300 speakers, Kawai just might have the best portable DP ever.

Ill keep you posted with detailed reviews on ES7 if you want. Let me know if you want me to start a new post or just continue w this post.

Mostly, Thanks to everyone in this forum who responded and helped me in my buying process.

In return, If needed, I will try to answer as many questions best I can about ES7 and other DPs I tested. Keep in mind Im not a pro pianist by any means. Just self taught performer that's been playing by ear for about 25 years. But I think I got the hang of it by now

Hi Marko, congrats on the new ES7!

Thank you for posting your comments too.

Regarding the distortion in the left speaker, have you discussed this with the dealer and/or Kawai America? I wonder if it's something that can be rectified?

Kind regards,
James
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Hi Marko,

Congrats on your ES7.

I am wondering about the speaker distortion you speak of.

I also have an issue with distortion but with mostly a single key (the E a 3rd up from middle C) and I am wondering if the distortion you speak of is only speakers or do you hear it with your phones also ?

I hear mine with phones, also ... so I do not think it has anything to do with the speakers.

@dmd: if you hear it on phones it's definitely not the speakers ;-) Could be the Progressive Harmonic Imaging engine that you hear. I Made that mistake myself as well before - hearing added resonances that are (most probably) part of the PHI algorithm and interpreting them as harmonic 'distortions'.

@Marko and other ES7 owners; I hear a bit of ringing / distortion when playing pretty loud (75% ~ 100% volume) and specifically with certain key combinations that resonate more (A +E) and therefore put more load on the speaker system. Some Kawai technical guys where here. They indicated that in such a small cabinet with relatively small speakers you will always hear just a little bit of distortion or case resonance when going full throttle. As long as it stays within limits. Although I don't have a second ES7 to compare , I think they may be right, since more people 'hear' something similar when playing loud but not so much that it completely distorts or spoils the fun. So in short ; if there is just a slight distortion of the sound only when going very loud, that's probably the way it is and I must admit that it is mostly audible to the critical ear. It's very likely that many people wouldn't even notice it. I wouldn't bother too much , unless you're experiencing something that is very different and looks more like a broken speaker. In that case talk to your dealer as James advised.

By the way I tried the ES7 with an added Subwoofer ; must say I'm not sure if I liked the results. It added more bottom to the sound, but simultaneously the sound became less defined and more muffled. Have to do some more testing to see if it's an improvement or not. Also keep in mind the audio outputs are fixed in Volume, so you have to adjust the volume of your sub when changing the volume of the ES7. Not a very nice solution, unless you always keep the ES7 Volume fixed at the same level. WOuld be great if you could choose between fixed or dynamic volume for the outputs in a setting ( or is it there and did I overlook this option?).

Congrats on your choice ; the ES7 is a great instrument ! Enjoy.

Congratulations on your ES7. Brought mine home a few days' ago and am amazed at the quality of the sound and its playability. Re the latter, I am still on a learning curve re DPs, having spent 6 decades playing APs, but I have been surprised how quickly I have adapted and am getting closer to the subtlety of touch of my RX2. No problems with distortion on headphones or speakers. The MP3 output is low (but what a useful feature)and I am still experimenting with increasing the gain and/or increasing gain in Audacity, but it's interesting that through my hi-fi system, the LH channel distorts sometimes - but this speaker is a bit dodgy anyway. A small techie problem hopefully.

It's an incredible piano, having great fun with it. Originally intended to go the software piano route with any DP I bought and will do so in due course, but there's no urgency about this with the ES7. Although I have played around with the harpsichord sound to create 3 (sort of) different registers (I am a former harpsichordist and really miss playing French baroque music) I will certainly go down the software route for playing harpsichord.

At present, being able to move back and forth between the ES7 and the RX2, my comment would be "they are different", not "the RX2 is so superior". As I get more accustomed to the ES7 sound I expect to notice more limitations versus the RX2, but I fully expected these to be blindingly obvious right from the start.

I am still in a state of amazement.

There is a good reason why the Line Out level does not change with the Master Volume slider, however I'm afraid I cannot quite remember what it is at the moment.

However, there is the 'Line Out Volume' setting in the 'Basic Settings' menu which - as the name suggests - allows the line out volume to be adjusted directly from the instrument. You can also 'jump' to this setting temporarily by pressing and holding the EXIT button.

Cheers,
James
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sandalholme, congrats to you too, and thank you also for posting your positive feedback - it's very encouraging for myself and my colleagues to read that the instrument is bringing such enjoyment to so many people.

By the way, if you haven't done so already, please remember to download the latest software version from the URL below:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/updates.html

Kind regards,
James
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Thank you JFP, dmd, sandalholme, especially you Kawai James; you are truly an asset to the Pianoworld community. I did the upgrade from 1.11 to 1.13 effortlessly.


This is my latest findings: I might have misspoke when I use the word "distortion." The distortion seems like it's NOT coming from the left speaker itself but maybe 3-5 inches just to the right of the speaker. So, I think distortion was the wrong word because the speaker seems to be fine, so now I believe it's more of a vibration sound than distortion. Now what is very interesting is the Concert Grand demo - played at almost full volume has virtually no vibration at all. So maybe it's a matter of adjustment. Also maybe it's my imagination but the vibration seems to be getting slightly less the more I play. Is there such thing as a break in period for digital pianos??

Also, JFP, you're kind of right. The subwoofer not best option after trying for over an hour to get it perfect. Although does add nice vibration on the keys like a real piano

The good news is that I am loving the ES7 the more I play it. Sound is virtually flawless with Bose headphones and Bose is not certainly not the best headphones out there, just maybe best in marketing ;-). The Grand Concert and Mellow1 just amazes me how good Kawai can reproduce such incredible sound (w headphones). Between sound and action I don't want to stop playing it!! But I think like any expensive new purchase of anything we tend to be most critical in the beginning. I will keep updating this post as I discover more things about the ES7 But I truly think I will still be in love even after the honeymoon.

I think we're talking about the same thing. The ringing I have is also next to the right speaker at loud volume when playing a piano preset. Especially with certain key combinations , like I said (a+e in my case). It seems to be a slight , metallic resonance of the case , or part of the es7 body. And it is indeed mysteriously absent when playing the demo songs at full volume, that was what was bugging my mind too. It's sort of a harsh edge at loud volumes, but not too present , so it's not a very big deal. Probably pushing the volume of a small portable piano (any digital with relatively small speakers and a cabinet that doesn't weigh a ton) will have some sort of material resonance in the end. So don't push it all he way up and you'll find he ES7 sound very enjoyable ;-)

James , good to know there is a shortcut to the Volume setting. The MP6 had its own volume slider which was even more convenient, but his will help too. That the line out is fixed as default makes sense. For a PA situation that is the best option. But a choice to set it to dynamic as alternative in a setup menu would have been nice. If that could be a firmware update option (outputs either fixed, or following the volume slider) than regard this as a request ;-)

Is there a firmware request link ? Got some other proposals for the arranger sounds that IMHO could enhance the experience without costing too much programming effort. For the rest the ES7 is pretty much complete . Some adjustments in arranger sounds & perhaps some extra pedal functionality and small user operation tweaks in a future update, but no much else to wish for. Nice work !

Not officially, no. The best option would be to contact the distributor in your country, which is Kawai Europe. You'll note that the new pedal functionality introduced with the latest software update came about following user requests.

Cheers,
James
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Day 2: The more closely I scrutinize the ES7 it continues to amaze me beyond expectation.

(ES7 owners: Put on a REAL good set of headphones and play Piano Sonata No.14/Moonlight Sonata as passionately as you can - it will bring tears to your eyes. I just cant get over how near perfect the sound and touch of the ES7 can produce.)

Obviously, I am very happy with this piano with almost no exceptions. I cant recommend it enough for anyone shopping DPs under $2,000. I see that some might be disappointed that it only has 32 voices. However, if piano sound and action is your top priority, you just cant get better than this IMO. Kawai really hit a home run this year with ES7 and the CA series w/ new actions and 3 sensor PHI and HIXL. Keep in I tried dozens of the latest DPs from all makes past 3 months as mentioned in my 1st post.

Warning: Kawai ES7 can be more addicting than heroin. Yes, that good.

Indeed. I tell my friends that ES7 is the best digipiano money can buy for under $2K. Too bad I already have a DP.

Marco, you are playing Moonlight Sonata on ES7? Sorry for asking, I'm just pure beginner and Mr. Beethoven is nowhere on my musical horizon yet, but IIRC someone told me that Moonlight Sonata is good test for keys sensitivity when you go "into keys". I.e. grands do have natural advantage here with their long keys and far pivot point. So how have you manage sensitive playing "in keys" on ES7? Do you have any idea how long the keys on ES7 are? Honestly speaking, ES7 caught my eye since I'd like something portable, easy to play (not worry about cables etc.) and yet with as good as possible keyboard. The other option might be to wait on NAMN 2013 to see MP10 successor. I do have time as I need this to just complement my two APs to play in nights and with friends in band.
BTW: could you be so kind and make your moonlight record available somewhere for listening?

Thanks!
Karel