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#2002531 - 12/21/12 09:04 AM Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX
MARC_FR Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 10
Hello
I know there are plenty of good topics concerning my subject even though I did not find any answer to the following question:

Do the C Series still exist or no ?
Or it is replaced by the CX ?

I can't be sure and I can find both thoughts by looking in internet.

Thank you for the answer
Regards

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#2002725 - 12/21/12 03:04 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
I just checked the Yamaha USA site and it lists both CX and C series so I guess they still make and sell both for now.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#2002760 - 12/21/12 04:26 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
Gatsbee13 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 505
Loc: So Cal
I visited my local yamaha dealer a weeks ago and they told me the cx is replacing the c series, so it will be phased out. Might be able to get a good deal on a c series.

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#2002832 - 12/21/12 07:39 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Gatsbee13]
Mark VC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 110
Go find the C of your desired length and offer them 75% of their asking price. You might be surprised.

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#2003885 - 12/24/12 10:31 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Mark VC]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
25% discount on a Yamaha? That's an everyday kind of deal. Offer them HALF and a leave a callback number. They'll call you next month.

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#2003913 - 12/24/12 11:33 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: jawhitti]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19271
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
25% discount on a Yamaha? That's an everyday kind of deal. Offer them HALF and a leave a callback number. They'll call you next month.
How can one comment on whether a deal is good when one has no idea of the asking price? It's possible the original offer before any discount was good.

In my experience and from PW posts it would be extremely rare(virtually unheard of)for a dealer to agree to half of their asking price even if their asking price had no discount from SMP(which in itself would be quite rare nowadays).

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#2004112 - 12/24/12 08:50 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
My experience is that the price displayed on the piano is basically MSRP, at least at the dealers around me. I agree in general you're unlikely to get "50% off" a brand-new piano but if the piano has sat on the floor for two years and a new model (like the CX) has come out the discounts can be pretty close. I know a dealer who had (might still have) a never-sold pre-Blak (but still Millenium III carbon fiber) RX-5 that could probably be had for under $25k. The MSRP of a list Blak is 53k per Larry fine and even the SMP is like 43k. (I considered buying that one but I liked the [used] C6 I got for similar money better).

And anyway I never said they'd sell it at that price but they would certainly take your offer seriously. Come January when sales are sloooow who knows what a dealer might do to get some cash flow... wink


Edited by jawhitti (12/24/12 08:51 PM)

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#2004127 - 12/24/12 09:55 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: jawhitti]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19271
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
My experience is that the price displayed on the piano is basically MSRP, at least at the dealers around me. I agree in general you're unlikely to get "50% off" a brand-new piano but if the piano has sat on the floor for two years and a new model (like the CX) has come out the discounts can be pretty close. I know a dealer who had (might still have) a never-sold pre-Blak (but still Millenium III carbon fiber) RX-5 that could probably be had for under $25k. The MSRP of a list Blak is 53k per Larry fine and even the SMP is like 43k. (I considered buying that one but I liked the [used] C6 I got for similar money better).

And anyway I never said they'd sell it at that price but they would certainly take your offer seriously. Come January when sales are sloooow who knows what a dealer might do to get some cash flow... wink
Not the way pricing works in NYC at any of the dealers. And virtually none of the PW posters who ask if they've been offered a fair price from a dealer have been quoted MSRP. Any buyer who does the most minimal internet search would realize paying MSRP is folly.

And again, you have no idea what price this dealer was asking. Frankly, the tone in your first post makes you sound like someone who loves to try to take advantage of a dealer.

Why would any dealer take a ridiculously low offer "seriously"? I think such a low offer is exactly the kind of offer they wouldn't take seriously.


Edited by pianoloverus (12/24/12 10:10 PM)

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#2004246 - 12/25/12 09:35 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
I provided a concrete actual example of a case where due to various reasons a "new" piano can be had for something close to "50% off" list price. I was offered that deal by the dealer without even really negotiating. It can happen.

"Taking advantage of a dealer" though? Would you say that about someone negotiating to buy a car? Pianos are less liquid and more volatile in price than cars by a long shot. Almost more like real estate in that it can a LONG time to move. There's not a thing wrong with aggressively negotiating in a such a market, especially when the presence of a "new" model devalues "last year's model".

PS: Have a Merry Christmas!

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#2004270 - 12/25/12 11:28 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: jawhitti]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1742
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Sellers of anything are trying to "buy" your money with their goods, just the same as you're trying to buy their goods with your money. Any purchaser of a car, piano, or anything else who doesn't internalize that functional equality is negotiating from a position of disadvantage.

There's nothing immoral about a seller asking a price higher than a buyer might be willing to pay; there's nothing immoral about a buyer offering an amount less than the seller might be willing to accept; and there's certainly nothing immoral about negotiating in good faith towards a happy medium.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2004273 - 12/25/12 11:52 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: ClsscLib]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19271
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib

There's nothing immoral about a seller asking a price higher than a buyer might be willing to pay; there's nothing immoral about a buyer offering an amount less than the seller might be willing to accept; and there's certainly nothing immoral about negotiating in good faith towards a happy medium.
I think the tone of the post I objected to sounds like the poster is suggesting to try and take advantage of the precarious state some dealers are in by telling the OP to make a very low offer that the dealer will ultimately be forced to accept. To take advantage of someone else's bad times may or may not be "immoral" but it is still not desirable IMO. This would not be an example of a "happy medium".


Edited by pianoloverus (12/25/12 11:53 AM)

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#2004286 - 12/25/12 12:32 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: pianoloverus]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1742
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib

There's nothing immoral about a seller asking a price higher than a buyer might be willing to pay; there's nothing immoral about a buyer offering an amount less than the seller might be willing to accept; and there's certainly nothing immoral about negotiating in good faith towards a happy medium.
I think the tone of the post I objected to sounds like the poster is suggesting to try and take advantage of the precarious state some dealers are in by telling the OP to make a very low offer that the dealer will ultimately be forced to accept. To take advantage of someone else's bad times may or may not be "immoral" but it is still not desirable IMO. This would not be an example of a "happy medium".


If the offer makes no financial sense to the dealer, the dealer can and should say no. If it does make sense, the dealer may choose to say yes.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing the morality play here...
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2005062 - 12/27/12 04:35 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Gatsbee13]
MARC_FR Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 10
Hello
And thank you for your answer.
I had the same answer here from my manufacturer in France.
So the C-series will disappear ...

That is now absolutly sure.



Edited by MARC_FR (12/27/12 04:36 PM)

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#2042267 - 03/03/13 11:12 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
xbj Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8
I'm brand new here so forgive me if this is been asked before, I couldn't find anything in search. And I'm not trying to alarm anyone, I'm honestly concerned about this myself, and Yamahas have always been my favorite pianos, so I'm not trying in any way to trash the brand. Is there ANY possibility that Yamaha is liquidating their "C" line and inventory because of radiation? Has anyone put a geiger counter to any recent shipments? By the same token, the sudden flood of grey market used pianos from Japan on eBay by several dealers makes me wonder as well. I know the Yamaha factory per se is significantly south of Tokyo, but didn't they store their wood in the north? Just crazy paranoid questions that probably have been dealt with before, but it seems weird to me that Yamaha would suddenly jettison an entire line, with deep discounts for the few improvements the CX series is going to make to relatively small pianos. I realize the entire idea is to make instruments that sound more like Steinways, with purer fundamentals and less higher harmonics resulting in a mellower tone, but isn't the love of that bright sound what sells to performers and recording studios in America in the first place? The idea that there are no more Yamaha grands but grands that sound like even the best of Steinways, only consistent, bugs me a little. And with the political situation between Japan and China being what it is, they just can't move all operations there. Thanks for any more informed input!

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#2042345 - 03/03/13 01:27 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: xbj]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1990
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I suppose enough time has elapsed since Fukushima for the dangerous isotopes to be incorporated into the trees, wool and iron so Japan can take steps to speed up its exports as a useful way to de-contamanate the homeland! WHAT nonsense you are spreading xbj! Your post does not reflect well on either your character or competence!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2042346 - 03/03/13 01:30 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1157
OK, I really hadn't thought about radiation on Yamaha pianos... but i'm sure that's not the reason why they've issued a new line of pianos.

I always found Steinway to have MORE harmonics than Yamaha, but that could be just my ears.

What I do know, from having played a few, is that the CX pianos are excellent instruments. They are an improvement on the already very good C series. They have longer sustain, they sing more and they have far more response and dynamic range.

There are other good pianos out there, of course, but the CX are as good as many higher end pianos on the market.



It can be possible to get a 50 percent discount on a new piano, but it would usually be because the dealer is trying to clear out stock, perhaps something has remained unsold but it is ex-hire (slightly different to brand new I know) or the dealer is in trouble.

Anyway, you want to buy at the best price possible, keeping in mind that you want a good service from a reputable dealer. You don't just want someone to flog it to you, you want them to back up their product. The dealers need to be paid, and I'd always be wary of someone who sold too cheap.

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#2042422 - 03/03/13 04:40 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5017
The CX series came about as an offshoot of Yamaha developing their CFX concert grand to replace the CF-IIIS.

Spending all those years to develop what they hope would be a viable challenger to the Steinway D on the world's concert venues (the CFX has much more tonal variety and range of color than its predecessor, but is still generally brighter-sounding than Steinway D), it makes sense that their R & D would also trickle down to their smaller grands, incorporating the same improvements.

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#2042485 - 03/03/13 06:32 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Yamaha marketing decides to call the new pianos the CX-series instead of "new C-series" perhaps to emphasize the technology gained from the CFX, but in fact, it is the new C-series. The plate on my C3X says C3 (serial no. X 63.....). Also, the box that my C3X came in has 3 big labels all say "C3 PE // X.LZ.WITH BENCH", so my C3X in polish ebony is actually a C3 PE.

By the way, I am sure one could get a great deal on a CM before inventory of CM's are sold out. If the discount is significant, it may be worth it, but if the price difference is small, I would swallow hard and put up the money for the CX. The CX is well worth a small premium over the CM, IMHO. Personally if I were to choose between a new C3X or a new C6M for the same price, I would still choose the C3X.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2042565 - 03/03/13 09:09 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
xbj Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8
Gee, thanks, Ed, I said I was a newbie here (what a welcome) and I am about to buy five NEW and used yamaha pianos and I was merely wondering about a distinct factual possibility. No need for you to be defensive and make up straw arguments like a paranoid dealer. The question remains: Has ANYONE had the courage or even paranoid stupidity to run a geiger counter over a shipment of new or used Yamahas? Isn't it ridiculous to expect any corporation in Japan to destroy product worth hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars?

Your post offers not one single shred of proof why such concerns are unthinkable. On the contrary.

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#2042737 - 03/04/13 08:32 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: xbj]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
here's proof that some yamahas are absolutely glowing...

_________________________
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#2042749 - 03/04/13 08:49 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
PianistInJapan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 32
Loc: Japan
xbj, there is no reason to worry. Both Yamaha and Kawai are located in Hamamatsu, which is between Tokyo and Osaka, and quite a distance away from Fukushima. The biggest concern with radiation here in Japan is the food, not grand pianos.

Of course, if you wish to run a Geiger counter over your Yamaha's, you are free to do so, but do not expect others to waste their time with it.
_________________________
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#2042754 - 03/04/13 09:06 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: PianistInJapan]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11761
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: PianistInJapan
xbj, there is no reason to worry. Both Yamaha and Kawai are located in Hamamatsu, which is between Tokyo and Osaka, and quite a distance away from Fukushima. The biggest concern with radiation here in Japan is the food, not grand pianos.

Of course, if you wish to run a Geiger counter over your Yamaha's, you are free to do so, but do not expect others to waste their time with it.


I agree. Plus, I think that a company like Yamaha that has really made a name for themselves based on their high quality and attention to detail would not do something underhanded like introduce a new line of pianos to hide the fact that the current line was contaminated by a nuclear meltdown as xjb is suggesting.

Often the simplest answer is the correct one: that they have made enough improvement to their pianos to justify giving them a new name.
_________________________
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2042824 - 03/04/13 12:15 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
Gatsbee13 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 505
Loc: So Cal
I believe they have been working on the cx series for over 10 years and planned to release around the time they did.

Btw. My local yamaha dealer was selling a brand new c6 at the price of a c3x.. So the C series are definitely being heavily discounted.


Edited by Gatsbee13 (03/04/13 12:39 PM)

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#2043068 - 03/04/13 10:06 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: PianistInJapan]
xbj Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8
Thanks. That's the kind of thoughtful response I was looking for.

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#2043410 - 03/05/13 02:36 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
LadyChen Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 521
Loc: Canada
Anyone know if the CX list prices will be comparable to the C series? I just noticed the piano buyer database doesn't have the CX series listed.

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#2043421 - 03/05/13 02:55 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: LadyChen]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10467
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: LadyChen
Anyone know if the CX list prices will be comparable to the C series? I just noticed the piano buyer database doesn't have the CX series listed.


The Spring 2013 issue just went to the printer. It will be released and the online edition will be launched in about 30 days.

CX prices will be included.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2043521 - 03/05/13 06:49 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Steve Cohen]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7173
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
The Spring 2013 issue just went to the printer. It will be released and the online edition will be launched in about 30 days.

CX prices will be included.


Inclusion in the price tables will be nice, but what about a review? Not that I don't enjoy reading reviews of such groundbreaking pianos as the new Feurich/Ningbo and Taylor of London, to mention a couple that are scarce as hen's teeth in the marketplace but reviewed recently in Pianobuyer. However, this thread has more than 100 page views for each post it has generated. I think there's a fair bit of interest in Yamaha's CX series.

I remember when Larry Fine passed on listing the Yamaha S in ''''rankings''''. As I recall, he mentioned that he didn't quite know what to do with it, so he just left it out. I hope a similar fate doesn't befall the CX series. If nothing else it can be shunted into yet another new category: Professional X. grin

Steve,

You mentioned recently on another thread that my basis for teasing you about your teasing Pianobuyer was flawed in that you don't receive payment for generating ad accounts. Fair enough.

If you'd like to clarify further and make a disclaimer here that you have no financial stake in the success of Pianobuyer, I think your activities here on its behalf would be viewed as simply based on your enthusiasm for the project. I know that would certainly be the case with me.
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#2043607 - 03/05/13 09:38 PM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: turandot]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10467
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
The Spring 2013 issue just went to the printer. It will be released and the online edition will be launched in about 30 days.

CX prices will be included.


Inclusion in the price tables will be nice, but what about a review? Not that I don't enjoy reading reviews of such groundbreaking pianos as the new Feurich/Ningbo and Taylor of London, to mention a couple that are scarce as hen's teeth in the marketplace but reviewed recently in Pianobuyer. However, this thread has more than 100 page views for each post it has generated. I think there's a fair bit of interest in Yamaha's CX series.

I remember when Larry Fine passed on listing the Yamaha S in ''''rankings''''. As I recall, he mentioned that he didn't quite know what to do with it, so he just left it out. I hope a similar fate doesn't befall the CX series. If nothing else it can be shunted into yet another new category: Professional X. grin


Editorial decisions for Piano Buyer are made by Larry. His email is larry@pianobuyer.com. I'm sure he will welcome your suggestions and observations.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2043693 - 03/06/13 01:07 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: Steve Cohen]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7173
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen


Editorial decisions for Piano Buyer are made by Larry. His email is larry@pianobuyer.com. I'm sure he will welcome your suggestions and observations.



Steve.

I asked you in the post you excerpted if you would care to provide a disclaimer that you have no financial stake in the success of Pianobuyer. I'm not questioning your right to promote Pianobuyer here whether you have a financial stake in it or not. That's up to the management. I can handle it either way, but I think those of us who come across you plugs and teases here have a right to know from what angle the information is coming.

You stated recently in another thread that it's been nearly two years since you received income from ad accounts on Pianobuyer. You opened the door to the question of whether you have any financial stake in Pianobuyer at all.

You came into this thread to state that the new Pianobuyer would be available online in 30 days. You did not have one substantive thing to say about Yamaha CX pianos. I think my question is appropriate in this thread, as it would have been in any of the other threads where you enter simply to plug Pianobuyer.

If you have a financial interest in the Pianobuyer project, the information you provide here should be seen in that light. If you don't, it should not. If you don't want to respond, just write that you don't want to respond. If you write that, I won't ask you the question again.
_________________________
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#2043748 - 03/06/13 03:41 AM Re: Yamaha New Grand piano serie CX [Re: MARC_FR]
ashley john Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Banned
Yamaha C Series can still be found at various local dealers and pawn shops.You can check it out there.
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