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Why was he dull?

hey scepticalforum, I've listened to those 2 players you mentioned and enjoy them, esp Marcin's work with Tomasz Stanko. I'd say many of the ECM players, that soulful euro sound. They have a huge roster of pianists, most notably Keith Jarrett.

him and Herbie are the 2 giants which I gravitate to. Funny I was never a big fan of Oscar Peterson, too many licks and runs.

the Latin players are great too, Danilo Perez, Gonzalo, Chucho Valdes, Jobim. Their rhythms. sax guy David Sanchez.

how about you?

I find most musicians I know either love or hate Brad, there's not much in-between.

It's his approach and he chooses to tackle pop songs like Radiohead, Coldplay, Soundgarden. I personally just don't like his sound. Same as I don't like Wynton Marsalis' sound.

But with all things in life there's enough choice to satisfy everyone.

He was playing duo with a mandolin player. Basically too much Mandolin and singing and not enough piano solo.

haha are you serious?! i never would have guessed that combo. I saw him live and wouldn't call him dull, just "out there".

Yep, he was playing with this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzi1S-KVLKU

I have seen him play several times before with his trio

Yeah, here's a video of them together. I saw this awhile ago and thought it was weird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9k7NHX-sU

LOL - finally found something from Mehldau that's not my cup of tea. Actually, I never bought the Mehldau/Metheny CD's either. I just want to hear the piano.

Just finished listening to Keith Jarrett on piano jazz. great stuff and you get a sense of how he thinks when he plays.

That first improv is just beautiful. Plus he and Marian Mcpartland play duet, probably the only time you'll ever hear him do that. And he has some kind remarks after.

He also says why he grunts and makes all those noises he's famous more.

http://www.npr.org/programs/pianojazz/previousguests/winter2007/jarrett.html

Click on the red button "Listen to the entire show" You need RealPlayer, not winamp or WMP.

I don't know about influence, but I prefer listening to songs, and sometimes albums, by a number of different players. I like kd lang for lots of tunes she's done especially on her albums Drag, and Hymns From the 49th parallel. As for pianists, I don't know, but for some reason I really can't listen to one for more than a tune or two before I want to hear something else. Keith Jarrett, Mehldau, Fred Hersch, Geri Allen, Michel Pettruciani (sp?), and some Hancock are some that I gravitate towards.

I think my earliest influences were Oscar Peterson, Vince Guiraldi (sp?) and Dave McKenna (sp?), but I wouldn't say I that I gravitate towards their styles. If anything, I'm trying to graduate from them.

So just chatting here. I ran across Footprints by Jean Michel Pilc, which I happened to find as I was checking out those videos above.

Footprints
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XaYyI9-EXA

Is this too modern to you guys? Thoughts? I thought it sounded fresh. After playing Footprints over and over as lots of C-7 and F-7 with the limitations of staying within that harmony, Pilc subbed the chord and got a bit of freedom I thought. Particularly since this is really a modal tune anyway.

When a tune has a lot of dominants, you can at least stretch but tunes like Mr. PC and Footprints which my band really likes to play a lot (as you all know), I'd like to get new ideas.

Maybe same concept with So What. At the Jam, bass player just played some groove over So What like a Jam band style. Almost Fusion. And we had a lot of fun over that rhythmically. I just wished I was able to think more outside the box harmonically.

Those of you with a more experimental streak might have some thoughts.

To me, nothing modern in his playing . . . sounds very 1970's, but I mean, what is "modern" anyway?
Amongst my musical circles in the late 70's playing a II-V-I (which I loved) was considered bourgeois, old-fashioned, American (which meant non-European), etc so we all played "free". I played vibes with Anthony Braxton when he was here, no chords, no score, just graphic squiggles to be interpreted (we rehearsed for a week), I guess that could be considered modern.
These days I still feel a bit subversive playing and practising tonal jazz (and slightly guilty enjoying it!) but I've finally figured out that in order to play "Free" one needs a system to play within and that one needs to have command (the Craft) of ones instrument. That's probably one of the reasons that I love the Standard Trio, they play those standards, with no or little substitutions - and yet they sound so modern!
Better yet, if you haven't heard "Tales of Another" then do.
It's first album that the trio recorded (before Standards 1) it's a Gary Peacock session, his tunes, first time they played together, etc. In an interview, Gary P says: I hadn't played with Keith, so I wondered how things would go until he said: "ok" to my: " it's 8 bars melody, then free", It was not what he answered but how.
http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Another-Gary-Peacock/dp/B0000261JX

I like Pilc, he always plays interesting stuff. And Ari Hoenig is amazing.
I think they are playing it in 9 mainly.

McCoy always found lots of things to do on minor chords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CmDq4GKSLw

When I hear that Footprints it makes me think of the Liebman version with Richie Bierach, I guess that must be from the 70's but it covers the same kind of tonal approach. Tonally there is nothing new in the world I guess, but what Ari does with time is groundbreaking. Kind of taking the ideas of the 60s Miles quintet and Tony Williams but going about 3 steps further on.
I don't know about it being modern though, the postmodern period already ended some decades ago ;-)

I love Tales of Another, especially the last track. I used to play Vignette quite a lot.

Agree. Maybe a bit similar to what Jon Fält is doing in the Bobo Stenson trio.
It's like the recording I've just done with Palle Danielsson, he's solidly anchored in traditional harmony, the tunes are based on, yet his displacement and rhythmical approach makes it sound so fresh - and dare I say: modern.
I knew something was up . . .

You wouldn't have a chart would you?

Maybe, I don't know. To me Fält's approach is a lot less technical than Ari's, he plays across the time more than doing crazy cross rhythms. Kind of developing the ideas of Jon Christensen I guess.
Then again I am not a drummer and know little of that mysterious art.



No sorry. maybe I used to have one, but I seem to remember it was in some real book. It is very easy, I can still play it form memory. Easy to play badly that is.

Ahh yes it is. "The World's Greatest Jazz Fake Book"

Wow that must have been an experience.
I like Braxton even if it is quite hard to listen to quite often.

So Chris, just curious. Why did that video evoke a reaction of "free jazz"? I saw nothing free in it at all. He subbed the harmony and it gave him some room to manuever. Even playing in 9/4 on a 3/4 tune isn't even that far out a concept. Being a modal tune, I thought there would be a lot of assumed freedom anyway. I'm just interested in everyone's thought process.

Beeboss, once you play McCoy type lines on minor chords, then you do it a couple times and one sounds like a one-trick pony too. That stuff is so recognizable. Brilliant when McCoy came up with that but I'm not sure it works too well for those that copy it over and over. Though I have to admit if you have McCoy type chops, you could probably get away with it.

Yeah - and what is "Modern Jazz"? Is KJ doing anything Modern? Sometimes even just a few unusual subs sound modern I guess but even that stuff that KJ does is just some tritone sub version of iii-vi-ii-V-I, right?

When I suggest something as modern that's away from standard 4/4 or 3/4, typically I get blasted for thinking away from afro roots.

I'm not into playing outside myself. I always like to think of the harmony underneath (original or subbed) since it's clearer to think of it melodically IMO. For example, I thought of playing Footprints with min(Maj)7 chords. I do this occasionally with ATTYA since my teacher did this. It does open itself to a new and perhaps "modern" sound, whatever that means.

I'm at least moving to the stage where I'm exploring beyond the regular ii-V-I.