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#2003375 - 12/23/12 06:36 AM Das Lied von der Erde
Verbum mirabilis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 208
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?
_________________________
Working on
Beethoven: sonata op. 14 no. 2
Chopin: op. 25 no. 2, op. 10 no. 3, op. 47
Bach: P&F in D minor, book 2

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#2003380 - 12/23/12 06:57 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Who’s Mahler? ... only kidding ... my favourite is Symphony 6.
It was interesting that Mahler looked for inspiration to Li Bai, the famous Tang dynasty wandering poet

“Four of the Chinese poems used by Mahler
("Das Trinklied vom Jammer der Erde", "Von der Jugend", "Von der Schönheit" and "Der Trunkene im Frühling") are by Li Bai, the famous Tang dynasty wandering poet.”

Wish the harp of Verbum mirabilis wouldn’t frig around without clothes ... perhaps we should call the piano “a harp in a box”?

Must pop down to my music shop and see if I can find a copy of Das Lied von der Erde ... see if I can pick up a tang of the East.

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#2003400 - 12/23/12 08:01 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7896
Originally Posted By: Verbum mirabilis
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?



My thoughts are that this is (usually)(mostly) a piano forum. And that the occasional off-topic thread should be labeled as such, with the subject line beginning with "OT". What do you think about that?

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#2003422 - 12/23/12 09:05 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: wr]
Verbum mirabilis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 208
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Verbum mirabilis
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?



My thoughts are that this is (usually)(mostly) a piano forum. And that the occasional off-topic thread should be labeled as such, with the subject line beginning with "OT". What do you think about that?


You may be right, but I see many OT threads without "OT". This is still music-related, unlike for example the "yesterday's tragedy" thread, which is therefore labeled with the "OT".

Also many theads tend to go offtopic, and they don't get labeled "OT" because of that smile
_________________________
Working on
Beethoven: sonata op. 14 no. 2
Chopin: op. 25 no. 2, op. 10 no. 3, op. 47
Bach: P&F in D minor, book 2

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#2003433 - 12/23/12 09:35 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Mahler was a pretty good pianist and composed a bit for the piano.

Beyond that, anyone who doesn't already know that "das Lied" is not a piano composition should know it.

Eat your peas...


Edited by ClsscLib (12/23/12 09:37 AM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2003534 - 12/23/12 02:40 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2760
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: Verbum mirabilis
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?

I know 1 - 6 fairly well and much prefer 2 and 5 (the happiest of Mahler's symphonies). The last two movements of 5 are truly extraordinary for completely different reasons. The Adagietto is perhaps the most beautiful love song ever written and the last movement is a contrapuntal tour de force. The final movement of number 3 is pretty good too.

As for recordings, Mahler has a list of usual conductors that seem to do him well, Bernstein, Walter and Ormandy, but the lesser known Ben Zander does an extraordinary job with Mahler as well and usually includes a separate CD explaining much of what's going on.

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#2003547 - 12/23/12 03:21 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
Maybe OT, but the music seems to fit this wintry season somehow, even if the the text is sometimes talking about spring.

My favoured version is the DG Giulini/Fassbaender/Araiza/BPO one. Some people have quibbles about this recording, and some say the live version by the same line-up is better, but personally I like this one so much that I wouldn't change a thing.

As for two guys singing this - I don't even like to think about that, but I guess you should try everything at least once. smile

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#2003564 - 12/23/12 04:19 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Steve Chandler]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler
Originally Posted By: Verbum mirabilis
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?

I know 1 - 6 fairly well and much prefer 2 and 5 (the happiest of Mahler's symphonies). The last two movements of 5 are truly extraordinary for completely different reasons. The Adagietto is perhaps the most beautiful love song ever written and the last movement is a contrapuntal tour de force. The final movement of number 3 is pretty good too.

As for recordings, Mahler has a list of usual conductors that seem to do him well, Bernstein, Walter and Ormandy, but the lesser known Ben Zander does an extraordinary job with Mahler as well and usually includes a separate CD explaining much of what's going on.


Steve, if someone insisted that I name Mahler's happiest symphony, I'd probably nominate the 4th. I love the 2nd and 5th too, though.

I agree completely about the Benjamin Zander/Philharmonia series of recordings, and the one he does for the 5th may be the best of a good bunch. I think Zander is more effective than Bernstein was at explaining the structure and elements of music to a general audience.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2003569 - 12/23/12 04:30 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6374
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
My only experience with Mahler - as a pianist - was accompanying a vocalist (alto) many years ago in a performance of the Kindertotenlieder (Songs on the Death of Children). Obviously I was using a piano reduction of an orchestral score. Trying to make the piano sound like an orchestra was challenging to say the least - but what an amazing and powerful work. And somehow it seems a bit strange to be remembering it this week in particular.........
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2003614 - 12/23/12 06:31 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5946
Loc: Down Under
I have the piano/vocal score and play it frequently (not in performance, just for my own pleasure) if we want a link to the piano smile

One of my most beloved works. I first heard and loved the Ferrier/Patzak/Walter recording and it's still my favourite, I think. But I also love the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer. And as for a baritone singing the contralto part - no, not for me, although Fischer-Dieskau could convince me of anything.

ewig ... ewig ...
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2003636 - 12/23/12 07:31 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: currawong]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8904
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: currawong
But I also love the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer.

That is my benchmark. I don't really feel that it has ever been exceeded. (And IMO, I don't much care for a baritone replacing the mezzo, though some do.)

Das Lied is a work of many faces, it my favourite Mahler.
_________________________
Jason

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#2003703 - 12/23/12 10:37 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 640
I have Kindertotenlieder in a Dover edition for vocalist and piano. (It also includes other Mahler cycles like Das Lied von der Erde). With just a bit of juggling, all these wonderful songs make great piano solos. I have just about worn out my copy playing them over and over. Kathleen Ferrier is my favorite soloist for Kindertotenlieder, accompanied by Bruno Walter. Walter is my favorite interpreter of the Mahler symphonies as well. Just thought I would recommend them to anyone unfamiliar with these performances. (Ferrier died tragically in 1952 of cancer. She was a unique and marvelous singer.)

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#2003715 - 12/23/12 11:24 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Chopinlover49]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6374
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
Kathleen Ferrier is my favorite soloist for Kindertotenlieder, accompanied by Bruno Walter. Walter is my favorite interpreter of the Mahler symphonies as well. Just thought I would recommend them to anyone unfamiliar with these performances.


Can't tell if this is the Walter version - BUT here's Ms. Ferrier in two selections from the Kindertotenlieder....

http://youtu.be/5N23uwhNdac
http://youtu.be/PMsXvuz3Voc
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#2003721 - 12/23/12 11:57 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Walter conducted the premiere of das Lied, and both he and Klemperer were close to Mahler in Mahler's last years.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2003728 - 12/24/12 01:00 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21671
Loc: Oakland
I read the German translation of the poems back when I was in college. I recall interpreting some of the lines differently than the way Mahler must have read them.
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Semipro Tech

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#2003908 - 12/24/12 11:25 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6374
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
From Wikipedia.....

"The poignancy of the cycle is increased by the fact that four years after he wrote it, Mahler lost his daughter, Maria, aged four, to scarlet fever. He wrote to Guido Adler: 'I placed myself in the situation that a child of mine had died. When I really lost my daughter, I could not have written these songs any more.' "
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#2003916 - 12/24/12 11:40 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12056
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I've played the piano/voice score as well, and it's gorgeous. I love Ludwig's Mahler interpretations.
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2004038 - 12/24/12 04:19 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
A damn fine work, though I personally prefer the Ninth Symphony.

It has also been very lucky on record. The excellent Ormandy recording on Sony is often overlooked.

I don't mind the baritone option.

Mahler's piano version has been recorded by Katsaris (it's on Warner/Teldec).
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#2004179 - 12/25/12 01:27 AM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
I cannot prefer any of Mahler's symphonic works, in the sense that they are all very different from each other. They are all masterworks, with such a richness to them that you can spend a lifetime exploring them. Many people do, and some conductors cannot resist rerecording them at different times in their life. With the right orchestra, conductor, and vocalists (including the chorus), it does not matter which symphony is involved - you should go hear it.

For recordings, I like anything done by Solti, and most of Celibidache. I suggest you watch for Jaap van Zweden - he has the Mahler spirit, the brio and sense of propulsion that makes this music magical. Hear him live with a good symphony - he is extremely exciting.

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#2005741 - 12/28/12 07:21 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2652
Loc: Netherlands
my preferred recording: Paul Kletzki with DFD and Murray Dickie
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Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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#2005766 - 12/28/12 08:12 PM Re: Das Lied von der Erde [Re: wr]
Aldous Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 65
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Verbum mirabilis
Truly a masterwork. I haven't had time to get familiar with all of Mahler's symphonies (in addition to this one, I know no. 2 well and I'm pretty familiar with the first two movements of no. 5, and I have listened through no. 9 a few times), but I'm quite sure this is one of his greatest works (one of the greatest pieces ever composed TBH).

Any thoughts on the symphony? What's your favourite recording? What do you think about the alto part being sung by a baritone?



My thoughts are that this is (usually)(mostly) a piano forum. And that the occasional off-topic thread should be labeled as such, with the subject line beginning with "OT". What do you think about that?







Well, there IS a technicality that allows discussion of "Das Lied" here, since there is a chamber version in existence with PIANO and HARMONIUM assisting strings and winds. Pretty neat, all in all.

Yeah, I adore this piece. Also, the final Tenth, completed by Deryk Cooke. But there's not one damn piano in it, so forget I mentioned it.
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#2005800 - 12/28/12 10:16 PM Re: [OT] Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Aldous]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7896
Originally Posted By: Aldous


Well, there IS a technicality that allows discussion of "Das Lied" here, since there is a chamber version in existence with PIANO and HARMONIUM assisting strings and winds. Pretty neat, all in all.

Yeah, I adore this piece. Also, the final Tenth, completed by Deryk Cooke. But there's not one damn piano in it, so forget I mentioned it.


You know, I don't think that's the version that the OP had in mind. And too, my point wasn't that it shouldn't be discussed, but simply that the polite thing to do here is to put an "OT" at the beginning of the subject line when wanting to discuss something not really related to the piano.

I was in a particularly cranky mood when I posted, I guess - I'm sorry about that.

I might add that while I used to adore Mahler, that adoration has turned into mere respect these days. All that hyper-emotional stuff has gotten old, and seems a bit cartoonish and kitschy to me now. It also feels manipulative in a way I don't much care for, even if it's highly effective - it's like Spielberg movies that way.

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#2005817 - 12/28/12 11:38 PM Re: [OT] Das Lied von der Erde [Re: wr]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8904
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Interesting.
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Jason

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#2005924 - 12/29/12 08:40 AM Re: [OT] Das Lied von der Erde [Re: Verbum mirabilis]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 758
Loc: South Carolina
Funny.... I always think of this work around Xmas time because I first listened to it during the holiday season of 1975, when I was a junior in high school. It made a huge impression.

It was the final Bruno Walter recording, however - not the celebrated one with Ferrier - which introduced me to the work. Nowadays, I enjoy it for Walter's conducting and especially tenor Ernst Haefliger's contribution (mezzo Mildred Miller seems a bit removed from it all, unfortunately).

BTW, Ernst Haefliger was the father of pianist Andreas Haefliger.
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Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).

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