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#2005315 - 12/28/12 05:07 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: KarelG]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: KarelG
Originally Posted By: Carlos-CR
Originally Posted By: KarelG
Honestly speaking I really do not understand all those complains about Yamaha being not good and using $5 CPU and $1 RAM for their flagship DP like AG is....


You don't understand why we complain?

Are you a shareholder of yamaha or are you a buyer?

If you are in the first group, I understand your post, but if you, as I am, are in the second group then I seriously can't understand what you don't understand. You are shooting yourself in the pocket, I mean in the foot with that kind of reasoning.

And in the end, I think that companies that try to milk customers to the last drop like Yamaha (and others) is doing are throwing their brand in the trashcan.

Just my opinion

Carlos


Carlos,

everything in this world does have its own price. Yamaha decided in certain hardware class and you as a buyer may either buy or ask for lower more acceptable price or turn to Yamaha's competition or give up DPs completely and go AP route. So you are perfectly free and nobody forces you into buying Yamaha. Yet, if you buy it you still do have a lot of options how to increase its sound quality with the fraction of its original price. So where is the issue? You mean that Yamaha will learn something from your complains on this forum like probably do smaller competitors? Yamaha is too big and too arrogant for doing something like that. So good, your complains are well saved inside the forum, everybody is able to google for them and made his/her own decision about AG series. If nobody buys this piano, then Yamaha will probably need to do something with the situation. And that's probably the only possibility of feedback we can provide to Yamaha. Certainly, I've decided to not buy AG at least not yet as my chosen combination is an old AP and hopefully complemented by ES7 or MP10 successor in the future for just those occasions I need to play silently or somewhere else than in my home...
No, I'm not Yamaha share holder. And I agree with you that Yamaha is milking their customers on AG line (but so is Roland right with their V-Piano line), but on the other hand doing the DP business is not charity and you need first to make your shareholders happy unfortunately.

Happy holidays time!
Karel


Marketing driven companies can be good for shareholders, but I can't think of any instance in which they are good for consumers. Yamaha is a heavy marketing driven company. When you evaluate objectively their products you can see they are nothing special and innovation is seriously lacking.

That doesn't mean they don't have enthusiastic people working for them. Surely they have. It's just that probably they don't have enough weight in the company.

Also it doesn't mean that they don't have good products. And avant grand is probably one of them, it's just that if they weren't so much marketing driven surely we would have now a better product in the streets.

So, I would advise all the consumers to not believe in brochures and always evaluate the products with a cold mind.

And never side with the companies because they already have much power in the buyer-seller relationship. It's called marketing and don't underestimate it because it's really a powerful tool.

If more of us did that, we would have better products instead of better marketing.

Just my opinion.. smile

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#2005324 - 12/28/12 05:26 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: EssBrace]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5442
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: bennevis
If you disregard its key action, the AG's sound and response is really no different to any other CLP costing a fraction of the AG's price.


Simply not true. Subjectively it is a world apart from Clavinovas and Dewster's testing shows that technically it is different, significantly out-performing all other Yamaha DPs. It is a long way from perfect (I enjoy my modest upright piano more) but to say it is the same as a Clavinova is just not true. In fact it's a lie pedalled by someone with the strongest bias on this forum, ie, someone who doesn't own one, has no desire or intention to own one, and indeed has no intrinsic interest in or ownership experience of DPs in general, but who feels the need to slag the instrument off on every thread possible. We all know why of course. Transparently pathetic.


EssBrace, I hope you don't mind me saying this (but I'm sure you do grin - you look out for every single post I write here and attack me at every opportunity), but I think you've got 'issues', as our American friends would say. (Think 'fixation', 'obsession', blah, blah, etc, etc...)

Where's your British sense of humour, and wit, and repartee, instead of all these intemperate lashing out whenever I post something here? wink
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2005330 - 12/28/12 06:26 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: bennevis]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: bennevis

...

If you disregard its key action, the AG's sound and response is really no different to any other CLP costing a fraction of the AG's price. As purely a practice instrument, it works if you don't mind an action that's heavier than most real acoustic grands (and you also have a real piano to practise on to refine your touch and tone color and dynamics), but as a substitute for a real piano, it just doesn't cut the mustard.

IMO, the NU1 is far better value for money, with a nicer sound and slightly broader range of color (from the CFX), and its action is lighter and more like a real piano's (upright or grand), and frankly, more pleasant to play on for long periods. As for its upright action, as I've mentioned before when reviewing it and comparing it with the AG, it doesn't feel inferior. Grand piano action is supposed to allow more rapid repeated notes (assuming you have the chops for it), but the action in the AG is more sluggish and heavy (too much so, IMO) than that of the NU1 and really difficult to repeat notes fast.


Mmmm. According to the DPBSD it seems superior to all reviewed clavinovas sound wise:

- Longer samples
- No visible or audible stretching.
- Velocity appears to be a smoothly blended multi-layer sample set.
- No audible velocity layer switching.
- Something like a velocity layer switch barely visible @ vel=78 (spectral pan view).

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1391594/Re:%20The%20DP%20BSD%20Project!.html#Post1391594

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#2005380 - 12/28/12 09:09 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3668
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Pretty sure the AGs got a 4 channel sample set to make spatial positioning within the case better. So certainly better than the Clavinovas.

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#2005464 - 12/28/12 11:25 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: North Carolina
It's not very meaningful to say it's better than other digital pianos. That is very faint praise.

More relevant I think: How does it compare with any of the good piano libraries?

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#2005545 - 12/28/12 01:12 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: MacMacMac]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
It's not very meaningful to say it's better than other digital pianos. That is very faint praise.

More relevant I think: How does it compare with any of the good piano libraries?
I agree that piano libraries are superior. I do love playing gigs with my Vintage D. But I do think it's only one piece of the puzzle. You still need the proper amplification and action to complete the effect.

IMO, Yamaha's plan was to combine all the parts to create their hybrid piano. Kind of like the great piano makers picking the proper wood, felt, etc. I do agree they held back on using full, non-stretched samples, not to mention that a Steinway sample would of been more desired, but I'm sure that was a business decision, so someone like myself will want the next incarnation of the AG.

I've been thinking of an analogy that might be of interest. I'm an avid car enthusiast and enjoy reading comparison reviews. Just because the BMW or the Audi wins doesn't make the 5th place winner, say the Lexus or Cadillac any less wonderful in real world driving. Maybe the AG would be 5th place in a comparison with the best VSTs but it's still pretty good and when used as designed with the proper four channel sound system, it might have some advantages.


Edited by 36251 (12/28/12 01:15 PM)
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2005562 - 12/28/12 01:25 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 283
EssBrace vs bennevis cage match piano playoff wink I'd pay to hear that. Happy New Year to all in this forum. I've been away far too long from the Internet in general and am just getting back into things now that I bought a new Ipad. Great little device. From reading this forum, I see sales of digital piano's have dropped and both Yamaha and Roland are draining money and probably restructuring their business models. I am hoping Roland and Yamaha have something new up their sleeves before this depression hurts them further. In my opinion, the music schools around the world are lacking in garnering the amount of musicians it once used to. An over abundance of kiddie style teenage bopper music and a hatred towards nothing old and classical is hurting the entire music equipment industry. At least the world didn't end on such a low note. Well, I wish everyone a Happy New Year and Happy Holidays. I will be singing wi Andrea Bocelli soon and hope to create some more music as well. I'll share it with all of you guys when I am able to. Now keep on supporting the instruments we all love and continue to make and play great music.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#2005568 - 12/28/12 01:30 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2434
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
EssBrace vs bennevis cage match piano playoff wink I'd pay to hear that. Happy New Year to all in this forum. I've been away far too long from the Internet in general and am just getting back into things now that I bought a new Ipad. Great little device. From reading this forum, I see sales of digital piano's have dropped and both Yamaha and Roland are draining money and probably restructuring their business models. I am hoping Roland and Yamaha have something new up their sleeves before this depression hurts them further. In my opinion, the music schools around the world are lacking in garnering the amount of musicians it once used to. An over abundance of kiddie style teenage bopper music and a hatred towards nothing old and classical is hurting the entire music equipment industry. At least the world didn't end on such a low note. Well, I wish everyone a Happy New Year and Happy Holidays. I will be singing wi Andrea Bocelli soon and hope to create some more music as well. I'll share it with all of you guys when I am able to. Now keep on supporting the instruments we all love and continue to make and play great music.

OT
There are some new entries on the iPad for piano software and synths etc. iPxxxx in fact, and the local College to me uses iPad exclusively to teach their studio, composition, music tech courses. No PC based VST thingies for them. I don't think the iPad offerings have caught up yet but they are quite usable and a lot cheaper.

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#2005594 - 12/28/12 02:06 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: bennevis]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Where's your British sense of humour, and wit, and repartee, instead of all these intemperate lashing out whenever I post something here? wink


But you only EVER post to praise the V-Piano and slag off the AvantGrand (as if for some reason your buying choices around your V-Piano are threatened by the AG's very existence - clearly YOU are the one with issues, not me). That's all you ever do. You don't like the fact that I'm waiting to point the truth out. Perhaps you'd like to explain to us all why you do it?

And let me remind you I readily and frequently point out the shortcomings of the AG (insufficient resonance, lack of sustain, looped decays) and the advantages/strengths of the V-Piano. My posts are informed by a very significant factor - I have owned both. Whilst I know I have been critical of the V-Piano's sound - and I absolutely stand by that criticism because it is not even close to what Roland promises - I ALWAYS state that it is the most dynamic and nuanced DP available. So there is more than a modicum of balance in what I write. Can you say the same?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2005720 - 12/28/12 06:20 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: spanishbuddha]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 283
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
EssBrace vs bennevis cage match piano playoff wink I'd pay to hear that. Happy New Year to all in this forum. I've been away far too long from the Internet in general and am just getting back into things now that I bought a new Ipad. Great little device. From reading this forum, I see sales of digital piano's have dropped and both Yamaha and Roland are draining money and probably restructuring their business models. I am hoping Roland and Yamaha have something new up their sleeves before this depression hurts them further. In my opinion, the music schools around the world are lacking in garnering the amount of musicians it once used to. An over abundance of kiddie style teenage bopper music and a hatred towards nothing old and classical is hurting the entire music equipment industry. At least the world didn't end on such a low note. Well, I wish everyone a Happy New Year and Happy Holidays. I will be singing wi Andrea Bocelli soon and hope to create some more music as well. I'll share it with all of you guys when I am able to. Now keep on supporting the instruments we all love and continue to make and play great music.

OT
There are some new entries on the iPad for piano software and synths etc. iPxxxx in fact, and the local College to me uses iPad exclusively to teach their studio, composition, music tech courses. No PC based VST thingies for them. I don't think the iPad offerings have caught up yet but they are quite usable and a lot cheaper.


Thanks for the info about the ipad apps. That's what is great about this forum. Sometimes help or advice comes in just because some folks care about letting others know. Both EssBrace and bennevis offer the same kind of advice and help to others in this forum and both are what makes this forum great. I do happen to disagree with EssBrace's findings about the V-Piano more since I also own one and have played the AG line as well. Overall, sound is a very difficult thing to judge. I happen to like the V-Piano's sound as well as that of my Clavinova CLP990. There is room for both depending what you are looking for. The AG series can be improved with longer samples and more tuning options like the V-Piano offers. The one thing I do like about the V-Piano are bennevis's wonderfully created patches which add life to the sound above the already good sound. It is a shame that the technology has not taken off as of yet and made its way into a cheaper version. I am hopeful that by next year, the supernatural piano gets an update to feature even more of the v-piano technology than it already does. As for Yamaha, I also want to see a better digital than its current flagship as well. One can only dream and wait for the future.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#2005804 - 12/28/12 10:32 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2702
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
In my opinion, the music schools around the world are lacking in garnering the amount of musicians it once used to. An over abundance of kiddie style teenage bopper music and a hatred towards nothing old and classical is hurting the entire music equipment industry. At least the world didn't end on such a low note.


@Kona_V-Piano,

There appears to be some truth in what you say above in regards to popular music overtaking classical/jazz in particular, as today's youth really have no knowledge/understanding of any of these legendary musicians and music, from a nearly bygone age.

Some of the greatest music ever written came from the pens of composers no longer living:

Albeniz, Alkan, Bach, Barber, Bartok, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Debussy, Faure, Gershwin, Granados, Grieg, Handel, Haydn, Joplin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Mozart, Mussorgsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Ravel, Satie, Scarlatti, Schubert, Schumann, Sousa, Tchaikovsky, Wagner... and, many others.

I don't think that any of the stuff being "written" today can even be considered "music" as such since it appeals only to foolish young people who party all night long and blast this trash at eardrum damaging levels, and, ultimately end up losing their minds to drugs and alcohol addiction.

If this is where today's culture is at then the future of serious music may be in jeopardy.

This is a real tragedy as I see it.

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#2005810 - 12/28/12 10:58 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: pv88]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 813
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: pv88


Some of the greatest music ever written came from the pens of composers no longer living:

Albeniz, Alkan, Bach, Barber, Bartok, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Debussy, Faure, Gershwin, Granados, Grieg, Handel, Haydn, Joplin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Mozart, Mussorgsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Ravel, Satie, Scarlatti, Schubert, Schumann, Sousa, Tchaikovsky, Wagner... and, many others.

I don't think that any of the stuff being "written" today can even be considered "music" as such since it appeals only to foolish young people who party all night long and blast this trash at eardrum damaging levels, and, ultimately end up losing their minds to drugs and alcohol addiction.



I am not sure what to say about this. I love old and new music. One of my favorite "bands" at the moment is the UK based vocal ensemble Cardinall's Musick (link ) who perform music from the English renaissense period. Their music is very beautiful but also way different than more modern music such as Mozart, whom's music I like too. I think that if you were to play Mozart's music to an audience (in a church) let's say in 1512 they would probably think you were insane if you would call that music... I also happen to like "extreme" electronic music from today. I can't say which music is better. I also wish more people listened to old music but I understand that not all have the same taste.




Edited by Amaruk (12/28/12 10:59 PM)
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2005813 - 12/28/12 11:08 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Amaruk]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2702
Actually, I should clarify my comments above by saying that I am not against enjoying any kind or style of music however, it is the way in which irresponsible people handle their lives and music becomes just another addiction.

Music is not at fault here, it's just people that have no conscience.

"Kids having more kids" is one reason for this, in part.

No proper parenting as such for these "kids."

And, there are other factors involved.

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#2005822 - 12/28/12 11:51 PM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9580
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2006359 - 12/30/12 05:22 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: EssBrace]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5442
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Where's your British sense of humour, and wit, and repartee, instead of all these intemperate lashing out whenever I post something here? wink


But you only EVER post to praise the V-Piano and slag off the AvantGrand (as if for some reason your buying choices around your V-Piano are threatened by the AG's very existence - clearly YOU are the one with issues, not me). That's all you ever do. You don't like the fact that I'm waiting to point the truth out. Perhaps you'd like to explain to us all why you do it?

And let me remind you I readily and frequently point out the shortcomings of the AG (insufficient resonance, lack of sustain, looped decays) and the advantages/strengths of the V-Piano. My posts are informed by a very significant factor - I have owned both. Whilst I know I have been critical of the V-Piano's sound - and I absolutely stand by that criticism because it is not even close to what Roland promises - I ALWAYS state that it is the most dynamic and nuanced DP available. So there is more than a modicum of balance in what I write. Can you say the same?


If your meaning of 'balance' is when I agree with you about your dislike of the V-Piano's sound, than what you say is true. You keep saying that your posts are 'balanced' but what you really mean is that anybody who disagrees with you has cloth ears, because you're always right, which by inference means that everyone who doesn't 'hear' what you hear is wrong. And of course, you're always there at the ready, stalking me, fingers poised over the keyboard, waiting to point out the error of my ways wink - just look at your own posts, including the one above - you're the 'truth' and 'the light', and, er.... grin. And you haven't got issues?

Some of my posts which you leap on (like a carnivore on heat wink ) make no references whatsoever to the V-Piano or the AG - it's just you reading things into them, then accusing me of all sorts of wondrous things. (Read again your intemperate attack on me when I posted something about my wonderful, wonderful holiday with the Mayans grin grin).

As I've said before frequently, I believe my own ears rather those of others, including any so-called 'experts' - including those from Roland (some of whom, including one or two demonstrating on Youtube, seem to me to have very limited experience of real pianos).

I've mentioned a VERY big criticism of the V-Piano many, many times, which I also happen to believe is the reason why it doesn't make big sales, which is that in its factory presets, it doesn't have the 'wow' factor in its sound - something that will induce a casual punter to keep playing, because it superficially plays and sounds like any other high-end DP costing a lot less. I've seen how most people try out DPs in stores, where there are often stacks of DPs piled high and squashed together in small spaces. They take one look at the price tag, sit down and play a few chords, and unless they can hear the difference immediately, lose interest unless the console has some diverting flashing lights to keep them occupied a bit longer. If the V-Piano has (even if only as its first preset) already been pre-tweaked to have increased sustain and resonances etc to acoustic grand levels, more people will be encouraged to explore further and realize where all the money has gone into, even if they haven't had much (if any) experience of real pianos and how they sound. The AG, of course, feels different immediately (especially if playing it immediately after a CLP), even if it doesn't sound different.

BTW, you'll have noticed that the vast majority of the criticisms of the AG in recent weeks aren't from yours truly (in fact, I only joined in the fray very late, after you, er, goaded me and I couldn't therefore resist grin)....or maybe you haven't, or thought that others were criticizing the AG under my malign influence (thought control, perhaps)? wink grin

P.S. Just discovered that you even managed to find me in the haystack in the Piano Forum (where I rarely post, and you'd never before engaged in...), just so that you could launch an attack on my opinion on someone. What was that about what I said about you stalking me and having 'issues'? wink



Edited by bennevis (12/30/12 06:01 AM)
Edit Reason: discovered a stalker....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2006372 - 12/30/12 05:49 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Karnevil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 160
I think we can all (well, most of us smile ) agree on that both the V-Piano and the AvantGrand are flawed in several ways, yet they are the best alternatives available in the digital piano market. Personally I prefer AvantGrand, because I enjoy the most realistic tactile response possible from my DP.

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#2006374 - 12/30/12 06:02 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: North Carolina
This thread is no longer a discourse on pianos. It has become a clash of egos.

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#2006375 - 12/30/12 06:03 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Ah, I see!

So to recap, you're saying your "VERY big criticism of the V-Piano" is just that it is much better than it at first seems. That's it!? Now your V-Piano criticism cupboard is bare? Yes, very balanced. I just love the way you've zeroed-in on that Achilles heel. Mmm, very insightful - (small pleading child's voice - "Mummy, I do criticise the V-Piano, honest. I always tell people how much better it is than they first think. And I stereotype the usual DP buyers as uninformed idiots that only like flashing lights. They're the ones who can't hear how much better the V-Piano is Mummy. It's not MY fault they're idiots. Like little brainless moths to a flame they only seem to buy Yamahas Mummy frown ).

And there you go again, pedalling the same LIE - that the AG just sounds like any other CLP. You know that is not the case - if indeed you've ever played the AG or a CLP. I'm amazed you can find the time what with all those lunchtime concerts with your "classical friends", the rabid gym work, the swimming with sharks, the mountaineering and exotic holidays. Not bad for a fantasist job-seeker from Wolverhampton! But of course you've dug yourself so deeply into your little trench that there is no way you can ever say anything positive about the AG now. Not without losing face. So all you can do is keep digging. Digging your lonely little trench. Praise of the V-Piano is one thing but consistently and constantly slagging off the AG doesn't make the V-Piano any better. Didn't anyone ever tell you that? Not even when your posts are strewn with smiley faces.

My "intemperate attack" on you and your wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful (pass the sick bag please) holiday with the Mayans was just humour. I mean, you did ask the other day for some of my "British sense of humour, wit and repartee" didn't you?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2006378 - 12/30/12 06:07 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: bennevis]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: bennevis
P.S. Just discovered that you even managed to find me in the haystack in the Piano Forum (where I rarely post, and you'd never before engaged in...), just so that you could launch an attack on my opinion on someone. What was that about what I said about you stalking me and having 'issues'? wink


I've "never before engaged in" the Piano Forum? I read the Piano Forum most days and have made lots of contributions. Get your facts straight.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2006380 - 12/30/12 06:10 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: EssBrace]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5442
Originally Posted By: EssBrace


.....the time what with all those lunchtime concerts with your "classical friends", the rabid gym work, the swimming with sharks, the mountaineering and exotic holidays. Not bad for a fantasist job-seeker from Wolverhampton!


Wow!!!
grin grin grin

P.S. Is Wolfhampton in Suffolk?
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2006381 - 12/30/12 06:22 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I'd like to say that I find the last part of this thread interesting.






But I can't. Come on guys .... wink
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#2006382 - 12/30/12 06:23 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: MacMacMac]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
This thread is no longer a discourse on pianos. It has become a clash of egos.


Mac, that's not very fair. All I'm saying is that I have consistently pointed out the strengths and weaknesses of both products.

Of course my ego is now telling me that if my ego is not welcome here then it could just find another avenue by which to secure world domination...
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Yamaha CP1

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#2006406 - 12/30/12 07:52 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: North Carolina
Yes, you made those points. They need not be repeated and repeated.

But you have repeated (and so has bennevis). So I have to agree with Dave Horne, above.

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#2006410 - 12/30/12 08:00 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: MacMacMac]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Yes, you made those points. They need not be repeated and repeated.


But this is the thing. When he writes something like "the AG is just the same as any CLP" or whatever it can't be left at that. Because it is a lie. In other circumstances I'd let it go as a mistake but he knows exactly what he is doing by making false statements like that. His entire stance is riddled with extreme bias. He is trying to negatively influence the perception of casual, occasional visitors to the forum. That is wrong and damaging. Someone has to set the record straight about that kind of thing. There is a principle at stake.
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Yamaha CP1

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#2006425 - 12/30/12 08:41 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: MacMacMac]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Yes, you made those points. They need not be repeated and repeated.

But you have repeated (and so has bennevis). So I have to agree with Dave Horne, above.


Has it come to this? Really? Are things so bad that people are now agreeing with me? smile
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#2006435 - 12/30/12 08:53 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
You guys really need to go drink a beer together. I'm sure bennevis could somehow manage to do it on UK soil.

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#2006440 - 12/30/12 09:06 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Gigantoad]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Gigantoad
You guys really need to go drink a beer together. I'm sure bennevis could somehow manage to do it on UK soil.


He doesn't drink (need I say more?)
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2006448 - 12/30/12 09:31 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Then drink a soda laugh

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#2006462 - 12/30/12 10:04 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: North Carolina
Ok, fine. Here are the facts:

The AG is based on the Schoenhut toy GRAND piano, not the Clavinova CLP line:


The V piano is based on the Schoenhut toy UPRIGHT piano, not the Roland super-naturals:


Both the AG and the V are truly terrible pianos. Avoid!

There, my two cents. smile

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#2006468 - 12/30/12 10:14 AM Re: Avantgrand N1 - Glad I kept it! [Re: Susan_B]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9580
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Mac, does either piano allow 'playing off the jack'?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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