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#2005671 - 12/28/12 04:48 PM Need advice on purchasing
KeymanSC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 3
Loc: SC
Looking at a new Kohker & Campbell 4'9" baby grand. Brand new from Rice Music House with player system. Asking 12,500. That's as high as I can go. And I am not going to buy used. Please advise! Thanks.

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#2005693 - 12/28/12 05:19 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6219
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: KeymanSC
Looking at a new Kohker & Campbell 4'9" baby grand. Brand new from Rice Music House with player system. Asking 12,500. That's as high as I can go. And I am not going to buy used. Please advise! Thanks.


Assuming the finish is satin or polished ebony, the piano itself should sell for around $9,200. It appears that the player system will be costing you a bit over $3,000. Is this consistent with your understanding??? Beyond that, (according to Larry Fine in the PianoBuyer) this is a lower mid-range consumer grade instrument built by Samick in Indonesia (a step above entry-level). If you plan to keep it in your living room and only use the player system from time to time, the piano will probably serve you well.
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#2005702 - 12/28/12 05:52 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10452
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Carey.

Where are you coming up with the $9200 selling price for the piano alone. The SMP is $9790 indicating a selling price of about $7000-$9000.

Since K&C is now a discontinued brand I would expect the selling price to skew to the lower side of the range.Personally, I think the price is high. We sold a similar size and model Pramberger with a PianoDisc IQ Flash considerably less that the $12,500 asking price just this morning.
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Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2005717 - 12/28/12 06:12 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
Personally I'd pass on this item...

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#2005729 - 12/28/12 06:51 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: Mark...]
KeymanSC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 3
Loc: SC
Why would you pass?

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#2005752 - 12/28/12 07:46 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2271
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: KeymanSC
Why would you pass?


He probably thinks it is too small, and as Steve pointed out it is too expensive.

Is the player mechanism important? In SoCal, you can buy 5' Samicks without a player all day long for $5000. And it's not a bad piano. I was quoted $6000 for a 5'4" Samick a year ago.
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#2005784 - 12/28/12 09:07 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: Steve Cohen]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6219
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Carey.

Where are you coming up with the $9200 selling price for the piano alone. The SMP is $9790 indicating a selling price of about $7000-$9000.

Since K&C is now a discontinued brand I would expect the selling price to skew to the lower side of the range.Personally, I think the price is high. We sold a similar size and model Pramberger with a PianoDisc IQ Flash considerably less that the $12,500 asking price just this morning.


WELL......The SMP for the Satin Ebony model is $9790 and $9190 for the Polished Ebony model. I apparently misread the Satin Ebony SMP when looking at Fine's charts. And yes - I should not have referred to the SMP as a "selling price." crazy

Nevertheless, IMO $12.5K is too much to pay for a 4'9" K&C New Yorker with a player system.
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#2005975 - 12/29/12 11:14 AM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I agree it's too pricey. Plus, I don't think a baby grand smaller than 5' is worth purchasing. You just won't be happy with the bass notes. Keep looking, I think you can buy a larger baby grand in your price range. Several years ago I purchased my first grand, which was a 5'6 Sammick for about $8500 new. That was over 10 years ago, but I encourage you to keep looking.

A question for you: do you really think you need the player? Most people I know who have purchased a piano that has the player don't use it more than a few times when they first buy it, then it loses its novelty.
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#2005991 - 12/29/12 11:40 AM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: KeymanSC
Why would you pass?


It' a low tier overpriced too small piano. Adding an expensive player just makes the purchase even worse.

I bet if you look hard, you could find a nicer used larger higher end piano with a player or one that you could add a player, in the same price range.

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#2006000 - 12/29/12 11:56 AM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Since the OP doesn't want to buy used, it's best to go back and try to work out a price with the dealer on the piano they like or try another dealer. Without including used, the budget is unlikely to include higher level pianos w/ player but it might allow bigger of the similar level.
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#2006180 - 12/29/12 06:36 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 627
Loc: NY and NC
You might find a lot of bigger pianos available in your $12,000 range. I suggest the Cunningham line of pianos, for instance, or Hailun. Maybe even some of the Kawai grands.
_________________________
2004 Mason-Hamlin polished ebony BB.
Working on jazz standards and Chopin nocturnes, preludes, and mazurkas (the easier ones.)

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#2006658 - 12/30/12 05:34 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
KeymanSC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 3
Loc: SC
Thanks everyone. I agree the smaller pianos will have some low end challenges, but this is going to serve as a multi-use piano like lessons, background music for parties, casual playing, etc.... More concerned with getting the best new piano. Build, durability, etc. Maybe one day I can upgrade to a 6+ ft but for now just trying to get one I can afford.

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#2006660 - 12/30/12 05:41 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: KeymanSC
Thanks everyone. I agree the smaller pianos will have some low end challenges, but this is going to serve as a multi-use piano like lessons, background music for parties, casual playing, etc.... More concerned with getting the best new piano. Build, durability, etc. Maybe one day I can upgrade to a 6+ ft but for now just trying to get one I can afford.


Regardless, you asked if it was a fair price for a 4'9 with a player, and it's the majority of opinions shared here that you can get bigger for that price, which means you either want to talk the dealer way down, or keep looking. Or you can buy it if you love it, and ignore the advice you asked for wink


Edited by Morodiene (12/30/12 05:42 PM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2006736 - 12/30/12 08:29 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
musicpassion Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 912
Loc: California, USA
"concerned with getting the best new piano... build, durability..."

Good goal. In my opinion, this piano isn't it.

By the way, why are you only interested in new? If you're working with a very tight budget used can be a very attractive option.
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Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2006777 - 12/30/12 09:49 PM Re: Nees advice on purchasing [Re: KeymanSC]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1101
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
My professional advice is to rethink the "only new" part. I have seen some pretty serious Yamaha C-3's go for 12K, some C-2's for 7K, etc, and these were privately owned, and not grey market pianos. They are, however, light years above a 4'9" anything. Home use can't wear one of these out, and the Kawai and Yamaha pianos of the last 30 years are still some of the most durable and trouble free pianos I have seen. I see over 40 of them at Vanderbilt, some from the late 1960s. They have changed, and though I think most new uprights have poor pedal mechanisms, if all pianos had the durability of these actions and pin blocks, I think I would be out of business.

I don't work for either of the companies, and have no vested interest, ( I restore Steinways and tune any of the brands). There are a lot of these pianos out there, many of them sitting with virtually no use on them. Educate yourself on what to look for, go hunting for them, screen out the obvious, and when you play something you like, call a tech and get a professional ok before plunking down your gold. Most of these pianos are like new, 10 years after they are purchased, needing only a regulation, tuning(s!), and voicing.

If the piano is way out of tune, offer to split the cost of a tuning, or pitch raise, with the owner. They get a tuning half paid for, no matter what. If they are going to continue to try to sell it, this tuning will be to their benefit. You pay half a tuning fee instead of the cost of an evaluation, and the tuner gets a tuning job and a new customer. After tuning it, any competent technician should be able to give you a very good idea of the condition of the piano, including all 230 tuning pins and every string! In light of the new business for him/her, O think they should give you their evaluation of the piano gratis. If they are going to be your tech, this makes perfect sense. I would, and do. It is great customer relations attached to a solid piece of work.
You get a LOT more piano for you money this way. And the repro system will not be there to compromise your pedal function...
Regards,


Edited by Ed Foote (12/30/12 09:52 PM)

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