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#2005290 - 12/28/12 02:28 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1002
Loc: Irvine, CA
I think the reasons is really not important. Little Janey might be shopping at the same time her mom would just say that little Janey is sick, and teacher would have no way to proof it anyway.
I think the importance in this makeup/ rescheduling issue is that how many makeups a family can get in a year. My policy said that a family only get 5 chances in a year. It is parent's discretion about how to use those 5 chances. It is not my business if they decide to take time off because they want to go shopping. I keep track of how many lesson each family cancel and reschedule and been very strict about it not to give more than 5 make ups.
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#2005397 - 12/28/12 10:00 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11440
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: Barb860
Doesn't matter to me what the reason is for their desire/need to reschedule; sickness, shopping, etc. what's the difference really?


Do parents really say, "Hi, Barb, little Janey won't be at her lesson tomorrow, because she and I are going some mother-daughter shopping in Santa Rosa. When can you do a make-up?"



I actually had a last-minute cancellation that went pretty much like this.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2005445 - 12/28/12 11:05 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: Barb860
Doesn't matter to me what the reason is for their desire/need to reschedule; sickness, shopping, etc. what's the difference really?


Do parents really say, "Hi, Barb, little Janey won't be at her lesson tomorrow, because she and I are going some mother-daughter shopping in Santa Rosa. When can you do a make-up?"



Yep. If I have open lesson time I offer it to them. If no time is available that week, they forfeit the lesson. This doesn't happen too often, though, once parents understand that they have to pay for such missed lessons. It's in my studio policy, but I don't think people really "get it" until the situation comes up for them.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2005446 - 12/28/12 11:06 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1317
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
But Morodiene, do you actually grant a make-up for this? Or does your schedule suddenly become too full, and you just say to Mom, "Sorry, I can't seem to find a slot for this make-up. I'll just see little Janey next week at her regular lesson hour - unless the two of you plan to be shopping again"?

I think the latter might be my response.



Edited by Peter K. Mose (12/28/12 11:17 AM)

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#2005450 - 12/28/12 11:13 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1317
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Barb, are you this agreeable even at the last minute, or do you require "X" number of days' notice in advance of the mother-daughter-bonding-in-Santa-Rosa missed lesson?

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#2005493 - 12/28/12 11:58 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Do parents really say, "Hi, Barb, little Janey won't be at her lesson tomorrow, because she and I are going some mother-daughter shopping in Santa Rosa. When can you do a make-up?"

I've heard that before. But the most common excuse is another extracurricular activity like swim meet, tennis match, orchestra concert, or any one of the 80 things kids do nowadays.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2005496 - 12/28/12 12:05 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Barb, are you this agreeable even at the last minute

There is a local high school that pulls such stunts on a weekly basis. The coach would announce (at 7:45 AM) practice (at 3:30 PM) that's mandatory, or else you're benched the following game. And it's not just sports! Choir, orchestra, drama, clubs, you name it.

Only at a nationally-ranked high school could faculty and staff pull such IDIOTIC stunts and get away with it on a regular basis, because all the parents and students are pressured into compliance.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2005698 - 12/28/12 05:39 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Barb, are you this agreeable even at the last minute, or do you require "X" number of days' notice in advance of the mother-daughter-bonding-in-Santa-Rosa missed lesson?


with 24 hours' notice, I will attempt to reschedule the lesson (if I have available open lesson time). If I don't have any time available, they forfeit the lesson (still responsible for payment). Last-minute cancellations I consider no-shows.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2005699 - 12/28/12 05:43 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: AZNpiano]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Barb, are you this agreeable even at the last minute

There is a local high school that pulls such stunts on a weekly basis. The coach would announce (at 7:45 AM) practice (at 3:30 PM) that's mandatory, or else you're benched the following game. And it's not just sports! Choir, orchestra, drama, clubs, you name it.

Only at a nationally-ranked high school could faculty and staff pull such IDIOTIC stunts and get away with it on a regular basis, because all the parents and students are pressured into compliance.


Yes, this happens and it's infuriating.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2005719 - 12/28/12 06:18 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11440
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
But Morodiene, do you actually grant a make-up for this? Or does your schedule suddenly become too full, and you just say to Mom, "Sorry, I can't seem to find a slot for this make-up. I'll just see little Janey next week at her regular lesson hour - unless the two of you plan to be shopping again"?

I think the latter might be my response.


Actually, I just tell them what my policy is on make-ups (which is that if it's last-minute for a non-emergency, then we don't make it up), and let them know I'll look forward to seeing them next week.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2005844 - 12/29/12 12:58 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 852
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
I live in CA and between my son and I, count 13 music teachers in my life over about 40 years. Only one of mine didn't charge by the lesson. Our present piano teacher charges monthly for a required 40 week year for the son and charge me by the lesson. As for qualifications, proficiency etc., one of my recorder teachers was head of all musical education for (IIRC) the Claremont USD. as well as being the head of music for Ren Fair and a prominent recorder teacher. The other recorder teacher is co-chair of early music at USC Thornton. One of my cello teachers had a degree in education and worked part time doing educational outreach for the LA Phil. My 2nd drum teacher had a doctorate in ethnic music, went to Ghana with Mick Fleetwood and through that trip received a fellowship from the university of Ghana to research and preserve their percussion history. At the risk of patronization I would remind some of you that there's a huge world of music education that isn't entirely dependent on packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit programs. My long experience in this musical universe proves to me that teachers that charge by the lesson don't automatically fall into the category of under-qualified, hobbyists.

kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2005884 - 12/29/12 04:57 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: KurtZ]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
Only one of mine didn't charge by the lesson. Our present piano teacher charges monthly for a required 40 week year for the son and charge me by the lesson. As for qualifications, proficiency etc., one of my recorder teachers was head of all musical education for (IIRC) the Claremont USD. as well as being the head of music for Ren Fair and a prominent recorder teacher. The other recorder teacher is co-chair of early music at USC Thornton. One of my cello teachers had a degree in education and worked part time doing educational outreach for the LA Phil. My 2nd drum teacher had a doctorate in ethnic music, went to Ghana with Mick Fleetwood and through that trip received a fellowship from the university of Ghana to research and preserve their percussion history.

yawn

Originally Posted By: KurtZ
At the risk of patronization I would remind some of you that there's a huge world of music education that isn't entirely dependent on packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit programs. My long experience in this musical universe proves to me that teachers that charge by the lesson don't automatically fall into the category of under-qualified, hobbyists.

And is there something wrong with "packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit program"?

Teachers who choose to charge by the hour (not by month, semester, or year) may simply mean they have another job that pays their bills. Alternatively, they may have a spouse who makes enough money, and thus don't need a steady stream of income.

I live near teachers whose spouses make so much money, they don't really need to work. So they can afford to charge low rates, or charge nothing at all! Some of them are also way, way past retirement age, and they keep teaching because they'd be bored otherwise.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2005955 - 12/29/12 10:16 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: KurtZ]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11440
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
At the risk of patronization I would remind some of you that there's a huge world of music education that isn't entirely dependent on packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit programs. My long experience in this musical universe proves to me that teachers that charge by the lesson don't automatically fall into the category of under-qualified, hobbyists.

kurt


It sounds as though you are insinuating that many of the teachers here who propose charging by the month fall into this former category of just wanting to pack as many kids in as they can and churn them out with certificates. Perhaps that's not what you meant, but if so, rest assured that if a teacher is bothering to post and read on here with any regularity, they actually care about each of their students and are trying to find solutions that suit the individual, while trying to also remain in business in this economy.

The vast majority of serious teachers that I have encountered that are not met on a "consulting" or "coaching" basis charge by the month.


Edited by Morodiene (12/29/12 10:18 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2005993 - 12/29/12 11:45 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: KurtZ]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
I live in CA and between my son and I, count 13 music teachers in my life over about 40 years. Only one of mine didn't charge by the lesson. Our present piano teacher charges monthly for a required 40 week year for the son and charge me by the lesson. As for qualifications, proficiency etc., one of my recorder teachers was head of all musical education for (IIRC) the Claremont USD. as well as being the head of music for Ren Fair and a prominent recorder teacher. The other recorder teacher is co-chair of early music at USC Thornton. One of my cello teachers had a degree in education and worked part time doing educational outreach for the LA Phil. My 2nd drum teacher had a doctorate in ethnic music, went to Ghana with Mick Fleetwood and through that trip received a fellowship from the university of Ghana to research and preserve their percussion history. At the risk of patronization I would remind some of you that there's a huge world of music education that isn't entirely dependent on packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit programs. My long experience in this musical universe proves to me that teachers that charge by the lesson don't automatically fall into the category of under-qualified, hobbyists.
kurt


It sounds like most of the teachers you've described have other jobs that pay the bills; teaching, for them, is more of a philanthropic activity. Goody for them; wish I could also be in such a cushy position. Unfortunately, teaching is my only source of income. Charging by the lesson would be disastrous for my studio (and my budget), as it would lead to cancelled lessons and no-shows. I would always have 'spaces' in my teaching day and income that would fluctuate from week to week, month to month. No thank you.

I also live in CA and I can guarantee you that 90% of the teachers in our music teachers branch charge lessons by the month or semester, not on a 'per lesson' basis.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#2006165 - 12/29/12 06:18 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: KurtZ]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7311
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
I live in CA and between my son and I, count 13 music teachers in my life over about 40 years. Only one of mine didn't charge by the lesson.

One ponders what your musical skills might be if you had sought out top-notch teachers whose primarily livelihood was studio teaching. BTW, the editor of Clavier Companion has several choice words, by inference, for these non-professional teachers in his editorial comments this month. Worth a read.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2006270 - 12/29/12 10:53 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Cindy O-H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Northeast Tennessee
Ok thank you all for your wonderful input. Very diverse I might add. I did not mean to open a bad canon worms here. I am just frustrated after 22 years of the same old recurring problems!
Here is the situation for some clarification. I have been teaching privately for 22 years or so. I do not have a issue with weekly, monthly or quarterly, I have done all three and whatever works for each individual then so be it. Monthly just happens to work for me.

My problem and it will never stop or be solved as long as private lessons happen, but it is the missing and the "make-up" issues! I hate it...... When I taught 75 students per week, I did not make up. But now with a full time public school teaching position a d a three year old at home, I don't have time again to give makeups, but for some reason, people are just ASSUMING that I can or have the time to do make ups. S I am re writing my studio police for 2013 and revising the make up policy.


Again thanks for the input.

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#2006291 - 12/29/12 11:50 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Cindy O-H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Northeast Tennessee
Sorry for the typos ......dang auto correct gets me whome

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#2006428 - 12/30/12 08:49 AM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11440
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Cindy O-H
Ok thank you all for your wonderful input. Very diverse I might add. I did not mean to open a bad canon worms here. I am just frustrated after 22 years of the same old recurring problems!
Here is the situation for some clarification. I have been teaching privately for 22 years or so. I do not have a issue with weekly, monthly or quarterly, I have done all three and whatever works for each individual then so be it. Monthly just happens to work for me.

My problem and it will never stop or be solved as long as private lessons happen, but it is the missing and the "make-up" issues! I hate it...... When I taught 75 students per week, I did not make up. But now with a full time public school teaching position a d a three year old at home, I don't have time again to give makeups, but for some reason, people are just ASSUMING that I can or have the time to do make ups. S I am re writing my studio police for 2013 and revising the make up policy.


Again thanks for the input.


Cindy, I think it's wise to not do make ups in your case. People assume because they don't know your schedule, but I'm sure if you explained to them what you are doing and that any time given for "make-ups" would cut in to your already diminished personal time with your family they would get it.

One alternative is you could have people volunteer to be on a swap list with other students that they could call to swap lessons with them if there's a conflict they know of in advance. You will want to have some guidelines like swapping must happen at least 48 hours before the first of the two lessons in question, and the swapper must notify you once the swap has been made, things like that. That way it's up to the student to do the change. I found many people didn't take me up on this because it was much easier to work around their lesson than to call another student an inconvenience them. smile


Edited by Morodiene (12/30/12 08:50 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2006579 - 12/30/12 02:20 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Morodiene]
Cindy O-H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Northeast Tennessee
Thanks I did think of that and a former co-worker published her schedule and they did the swapping. Like you they thought it too much trouble ths what it was worth! Lol. I have just finished revising my studio policy for 2013 accompanied with a letter as to the newest guideline revisions, AND a late fee tagged on to late payments and no makeups! I just can't do it and I am going back to that policy this upcoming year. I worked for 15 years before and I am going to make it work again. Thanks for the input.

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#2007076 - 12/31/12 02:09 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Peter K. Mose]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 226
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: Barb860
Doesn't matter to me what the reason is for their desire/need to reschedule; sickness, shopping, etc. what's the difference really?


Do parents really say, "Hi, Barb, little Janey won't be at her lesson tomorrow, because she and I are going some mother-daughter shopping in Santa Rosa. When can you do a make-up?"



Oh, yes. Would happen quite frequently until I changed my policy. Most recent one was getting called two hours before with "he can't make his lesson because he has to help his father." Found out the "something" was turning pages for his father at a practice. Are you kidding me? (Father is a piano major who deosn't give his very talented son any encouragement!)I don't reschedule. My time is worth money especially when I have a hole in my schedule left from something like this.
_________________________
Bachelor of Music (church music)
Master of Church Music (organ, music education)
Piano Teacher since 1992
Church Musician since 1983

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#2007077 - 12/31/12 02:12 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: dumdumdiddle]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 226
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
I live in CA and between my son and I, count 13 music teachers in my life over about 40 years. Only one of mine didn't charge by the lesson. Our present piano teacher charges monthly for a required 40 week year for the son and charge me by the lesson. As for qualifications, proficiency etc., one of my recorder teachers was head of all musical education for (IIRC) the Claremont USD. as well as being the head of music for Ren Fair and a prominent recorder teacher. The other recorder teacher is co-chair of early music at USC Thornton. One of my cello teachers had a degree in education and worked part time doing educational outreach for the LA Phil. My 2nd drum teacher had a doctorate in ethnic music, went to Ghana with Mick Fleetwood and through that trip received a fellowship from the university of Ghana to research and preserve their percussion history. At the risk of patronization I would remind some of you that there's a huge world of music education that isn't entirely dependent on packing as many 6-16 year olds as possible into a work week and getting as many of them possible into certificate of merit programs. My long experience in this musical universe proves to me that teachers that charge by the lesson don't automatically fall into the category of under-qualified, hobbyists.
kurt


It sounds like most of the teachers you've described have other jobs that pay the bills; teaching, for them, is more of a philanthropic activity. Goody for them; wish I could also be in such a cushy position. Unfortunately, teaching is my only source of income. Charging by the lesson would be disastrous for my studio (and my budget), as it would lead to cancelled lessons and no-shows. I would always have 'spaces' in my teaching day and income that would fluctuate from week to week, month to month. No thank you.

I also live in CA and I can guarantee you that 90% of the teachers in our music teachers branch charge lessons by the month or semester, not on a 'per lesson' basis.


Must be having a rough day, hmmm? I have it "cushy" because I work three jobs (including teaching 29 students) and work over 12 hours a day??? REALLY????????????

I give an invoice for the month and it is due at the first lesson. My policy (which is black and white) has cut down on the no-shows and make-ups. Not how I charge.
_________________________
Bachelor of Music (church music)
Master of Church Music (organ, music education)
Piano Teacher since 1992
Church Musician since 1983

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#2007248 - 12/31/12 09:33 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 912
Loc: California, USA
I charge monthly tuition that is the same every month.

I set aside 5th days in the month for makeup lessons. If I have other openings in my schedule I make those available as well.

For my studio policy, whether they attended lessons or not is irrelevent for the tuition amount. They are enrolled in lessons and the same tuition is due as long as they are enrolled.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2007250 - 12/31/12 09:38 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: dumdumdiddle]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 912
Loc: California, USA
Quote:
I also live in CA and I can guarantee you that 90% of the teachers in our music teachers branch charge lessons by the month or semester, not on a 'per lesson' basis.


I agree. Amost all of the local teachers where I live (also CA) charge monthly, or semester tuition.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2008648 - 01/03/13 04:57 PM Re: Revising my studio policies. [Re: Cindy O-H]
Cindy O-H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Northeast Tennessee
So I had my first lessons for the new year with a revised policy. So far so good. No "lip" or hassle yet.


My final decisions were the same as they have always been just stated firmer and more strict.
No make up
You pay for four lessons fifth is free tuition is due at the first of the month wi a late fee added after the 15th of the month, However ts did not solve my December problem of being cut one students tuition when she split for the last lesson of the month and has not returned calls or texts since then. So needless to say, I am short on student for 2013. But just more time to spend with my precious little one after a full day of teaching.

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