Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum How can I correct wrong key spacing of an accoustic piano?

Thanks for your replies again... though I must admit some things you discuss are hard for me to grasp. Mind you, I'm a complete novice when it comes to piano technique. I've read quite a bit about it in the past few weeks, but I'm not a pro. Also, English isn't my first language. Please try to explain to me what I can do, in easy English, and a little more detailed . Thank you!

I now have an idea how I can correct the pins, but how do you feel about it? :

My idea: Take a straight block of wood, cover one side with a layer of foam and place it against the front rail pin/balance rail pin (depending on the disalignment)... at the very bottom, so the wood is resting on the front rail/balance rail. Then hit the wood block softly with a small hammer, only a tiny bit at the time... evaluating the key spacing after every try.

What do you think?

Thanks again!

You need to look at the result while doing it, it is faster, try to make a fork in wood, sometime the key is planed witha rabbit because it have warped, it also can be unwarmed with heat and torsion.

Just repair the bushings before trying to regulate.

You say that you replaced some of the keytops.

I can see that there's two different types of keytops by looking at the front edges.

If I had to guess I would say that after you glued on the new tops you sanded or filed the side overhang. When doing so you removed some of the wood making the key narrower at the top causing the problem.

When trimming the keytops no wood should be removed.

If this is the case the best way to fix them is by removing the plastic keytop then re-square the sides of the key by cutting them with some type of set up. Then glue on the appropriate wood veneer on the sides to bring the key back to the right width.

Looking at the front of the 3rd key from the right it appears that the top is narrower than the bottom.

I think that you should do the best you can with what you have.

I've looked at the key bushings again today, and noticed on some keys they're not really even anymore.
Maybe I should just replace all the bushings (on one side) and see how much this will correct the alignment problem?
Maybe the bushings are just screwed up due to moisture. Some ARE a bit worn, though I didn't think this was a problem.

@ Kamin: How do you use the cloth pins for holding the felt in place? Do you push the V-shaped end of the pin into the hole after gluing the felt (with PVC-E glue)?

Also... what thickness do I need? There's .043", .054" and .067".

I'll try replacing the bushings first then, if it doesn't help enough I will bend the pins.

@ Woodfab: I removed a tiny bit of wood from the side of that specific key. You are right about that. That was the most damaged key. With the rest of the keys I only filed the plastic covers to match the wood... I didn't touch the wood itself. However, some of those keys are also misaligned now. I don't understand, as all I did was replacing the caps. But I did clean the keys up with a damp cloth. Big mistake I guess! The felt seems to have absorbed the moisture.

Okay, let me know what you think.

P.S.: Merry Christmas to you all!

No one?

Try to change the bushings, that should improve the situation for sure.

It's kind of looks to me like the keys need squaring as BDB described. Then they need to be leveled.

Way back at the beginning of this thread I said, "You are into an area that is a little beyond the reach of do-it-yourself repair." As the thread has progressed, I find that your level of knowledge is exactly what I had surmised. You very likely will not get the help you need here, because you need hands-on-the-action help and we can't do that via computer.

Look for a professional in your area that can do the job right, or help you learn how to do it yourself ... the right way.

At some point, you need to decide to do something yourself and see what sort of results you get. If you do not feel confident, you should consider what is the worst that can happen. If the worst that can happen is that you need to do it over again, that is just more practice. If the worst is that you have to fix something else, that is a learning experience. If the worst is that you screw it up so badly that you need someone else to fix it, it might be a good idea to watch someone else do it.

In other words, you need to anticipate what might happen and be prepared either to avoid or correct any problems. There is not always going to be someone to help you, so you have to have a nimble mind to keep you out of trouble. You are no different from any of us in that regard.

The worst than can happen? A voided warranty and LOTS OF $$$$$$$$ for the technician (NOT ME) that would be willing to fix it right after it's screwed up.

It is a 1986 Zimmermann, not likely in warranty.

Oops, forgot that part. Well, we will just apply my comment for the other ones then that like to do it yourself on new pianos.

AND, More money for the technician who fixes it then. $$$

I can't believe how many pros here help people mess up their pianos.

I don't how many of the jobs go south from following the pro's advice Jerry but I've gotten a fair amount of thank you IM's from people (here and elsewhere) who simply follow advice and it works out. Sure there are plenty of things that we do as techs which is difficult to convey or teach someone over the net but honest to god....key spacing really is not one of them.

Haven't you seen a lot of jobs that have gone south from DYIERS? I sure have.

I've been thanked Emmery by piano techs that need the help.

But, is key spacing the real problem here or is it warped keys? Badly installed key tops? Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...... Getting keys perfectly squared and perfectly level which these are neither need the right "touch."

@liza : changing the cloth on balance mortise is a simple job for the technician who have different cloth to choose from, and different calls depending of the size of the pins, small chisel to cut the old cloth (or other methods), so I suggest you ask a tech to do something for you, and he could probably make a little maintenance for one day or a little more, but and you take care of the keys yourself with his help. The cloth pins can be dismounted and provide some sort of wedge to hold the new cloth in place.. No need to press strong as it will push the glue in the cloth, very little glue is used.

Good luck. I

PS cloth thickness must be similar than original, but often 1.2 mm sometime 1.1 or 1.. There is some play with new cloth, and too much will allow the key to slant on the side so the good cloth, and a clean unglueing/cutting of the old cloth are necessary for cohérente result.

A moderate whack on the side of the mortise with a screwdriver blade will compress the wood and close the mortise a little, but but if you see the center part of the cloth or recess in front of the pin the cloth have to be changed.