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#2004428 - 12/25/12 11:20 PM NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions??
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
For you guys that follow this stuff, what companies do you think are due for new stage pianos, and will they release them at NAMM? Maybe you have heard rumors of new stage pianos that might be introduced. Post your thoughts, rumors, guesses and speculations. :-)


Edited by thercman (12/25/12 11:22 PM)
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#2004438 - 12/25/12 11:50 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Stage piano or controller from Kawai.
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Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
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#2004439 - 12/25/12 11:50 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Nomadness Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 145
Loc: Friday Harbor, WA
I wonder if a graph of annual DP sales would show a slight peak before Christmas followed by a deeper valley before NAMM... I know that I'm waiting now!

Steve
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#2004443 - 12/25/12 11:56 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
I don't know that I've ever heard a rumor per se about a piano announcement. I wish I had.

I have unfounded speculations aplenty. Gimme a Kawai GF stage piano to replace the MP10--that's pretty likely since they have GF in several console models now. At this point we'd all be disappointed if they didn't. Maybe a Kawai MIDI controller (though it would be more likely to be RH2-based, not GF...because a GF midi controller would make me too happy). That would send shock waves around this forum if it happened bceause tons of us want a good midi controller and there just ain't any to be had. Probably about time they replaced the EP3 as well. It's several actions behind. The bad news: Kawai prices seem to be trending upward (unless it's just me), so don't expect to buy the GF stage piano for peanuts.

I don't know if Casio has any more fun announcements after the relatively recent slurry of pianos they came out with, but it would be fun.

Yamaha, well, the P105 is creeping up on the P155, which is due for a change. Decent chance the P155 could get replaced, which would also be a big deal in this forum since that is an oft recommended model. Apparently the CP33 and CP300 will never, ever, ever be replaced, so don't expect that. smile

I never know what Roland is doing. My guess is MOAR SUPERNATURAL, everywhere. Probably in lower level pianos as well. It would be cool if they had a SuperDuperNatural. A cheaper V piano would make some serious waves here and cause many a fun thread, but I'm not holding my breath. An upgraded a better V piano would be fun, but cause fewer waves. Still not holding breath.

I really can't predict what software pianos are going to do. I guess Ivory could come out with a new, individually sold piano. I can't guess what it would be. We'd all go nuts if it was a Kawai EX, but I'd think a handmade piano from a small, expensive brand of some sort is more likely (I know the EX is expensive and hand made in some senses, but Kawai is not small). Galaxy? Well, we can always hope.

Well, those are my guesses. I have no inside information whatsoever, so take it for what it's worth (which is entertainment value only).


Edited by gvfarns (12/26/12 12:16 AM)

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#2004469 - 12/26/12 02:05 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
I would love to see companies like Roland, Yamaya and Kawai announce that "along with our brand new model "x" piano, you now have access to our new online library." Similar to what Nord has already done. I think if they don't it is going to seriously hurt them going forward. Kind of like GM not following the signs of what the consumer wants.

If the above doesn't happen I would like to see some sound storage modules be released that don't cost a grand so I could add VST's to whatever keyboard I have and not need a computer.

Based on my limited knowledge that's what I would like to see moving forward. :-)
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NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2004480 - 12/26/12 05:08 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Taylorius Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 44
Hi

I would like to second the wish for an updated V piano - ideally in a nice cabinet form factor at long last, as well as the stage version. It's been a bit of a mystery to me why Roland haven't done this yet. I spoke to a Roland rep.,and he said he thought the V Piano sound couldn't compete with supernatural - though I think there are many people on here who would disagree with him, myself included.

it would be super cool to see Yamaha do an upgrade of the N1 sound, to leapfrog the NU1's newer sample set. i'm not holding my breath mind you. As someone else mentioned, the ability to add /expand the sound libraries on these instruments would be absolutely great. That sort of flexibility is definitely the future.

Sorry these thoughts aren't directly related to stage pianos BTW.

Cheers

Matt


Edited by Taylorius (12/26/12 05:08 AM)

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#2004488 - 12/26/12 06:42 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: gvfarns]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Viscount: Physis will debute. If not, it is a Vaporware then.

Roland: VPiano update would be an overdue step. Perhaps with a improved keyboard for both VP and VP Grand.

Yamaha: AG N3 is an important and old enough instrument to see some update.

CP1, CP5/50 are three years old, and would be interesting to see how much modelling improvements YAMAHA is willing to disclose with these models.

CP155 is overdue to get replaced, probably with a GH3 action.

Kawai: I expect one or more new products range over the CA95. Positioned where the CA111 had been or beyond to compete with Yamaha's and Roland's premium offerings. Perhaps with a somewhat improved GF revision with a new Hyper-Grand name.

MP10 will become a GF keybed, including a Nord sound source.
MP6 gets replaced also, but with an RH2 action, sound coming from a Nord module.

CA13 could be replaced by a CA15 as well with a GF keybed. (RM3 could then be completely abandoned.)

CL26/36 are relatively young, but keyboard sortiment consolidation could justify an upgrade to the RH2 line. After then there would be only 2 Kawai actions (RH2/GF).

A CN44 would be a desirable update for many customers as a true replacement for the now discontinued CN43 - it would compete with CA15, but this is nothing bad.

A MIDI controller could be a logical expansion for both Casio and Kawai - keyboard action being their strength. But I do not expect a low price point for these, you will almost pay for having built-out sound in these keyboard-only modules (and for the somewhat lighter construction). (Like a 61 Key Hammer Action Fatar did cost almost the same as the full 88 Module for the same reason!)

SW-instruments: VI-Labs should now show their product is real, I don't expect major novelties just now from Galaxy, Pianoteq, Ivory, EW Studio but let us surprise. Perhaps SampleTekk could bring out a new remixed Yamaha on basis of their recently issued (by now hopefully fixed) Black (Steinway in Kontakt5).

I am without an industrial or marketing background in this area, so the value of my predictions is mostly to test how much such an interested individual might be able to assess market logic.

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#2004489 - 12/26/12 06:59 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Temperament]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Sorry for having included much other stuff as just STAGE pianos in my previous post, I have just overlooked the topic subject...

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#2004514 - 12/26/12 08:58 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Taylorius]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 536
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: Taylorius
Hi

I spoke to a Roland rep.,and he said he thought the V Piano sound couldn't compete with supernatural - though I think there are many people on here who would disagree with him, myself included.

Matt


i would take the guy from Roland at his word. Their recent actions seem to reinforce this conclusion.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#2004522 - 12/26/12 09:19 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 216
Merry Christmas, PW! I'll take a kick at the cat:

Folks will delay their purchases in hopes, dreams, and prayers for the next big thing, or at least the next generation...only to be once again disappointed or underwhelmed by new releases, or lack thereof.

Or so it's been for the past few years. Timing and product life cycles notwithstanding, I think the still-flagging global economy is also at work here.

Sorry to be a holiday buzz kill, folks. I would actually like to be proven wrong.


Edited by dje31 (12/26/12 09:30 AM)
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#2004529 - 12/26/12 09:38 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3759
Loc: North Carolina
Honesty appreciated. And don't apologize for the buzz-kill. Reality trumps dreams.

I have to agree with you. Change in this business is slow. Should anyone be surprised? I'm not.

Products are offered when there is sufficient demand. That there are few really new products each year suggests that there is little new demand, despite the wishes stated here.

So where does demand come from? It comes from people with money in hand, willing to spend it on a piano. The job of marketing is to help create that demand. Do new features stimulate demand? Apparently not much.

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#2004533 - 12/26/12 09:51 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
btcomm Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 274
Loc: California
I'm a little confused about the V-Piano statement from the Roland rep. He said the V-Piano sound couldn't compete with supernatural. So he's saying that their $7000 V sound is not as good as their much lower cost supernatural models? Huh? If that's the case then maybe they should mark down the price of the V to under $2000.

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#2004539 - 12/26/12 10:28 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: btcomm]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 283
i thought the v-piano was a supernatual sound ? I've never seen one so I was just thinking it was.
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#2004540 - 12/26/12 10:32 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I'm certainly no expert but I can pass on what I've learned from the top digital organ manufacturer here in the Netherlands.

I was given a personal tour of their factory when they had an open day. I made the comment that I found it amazing in this day and age that the display screens for the instruments were so small.

He simply pointed to their stock. They buy those items in bulk and use them until they're gone (and I would also imagine keeping enough in stock for future repairs).



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#2004556 - 12/26/12 11:44 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: btcomm]
Taylorius Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 44
I agree with you btcomm, I thought it was odd at the time - mind you, this was a Roland guy who was resident in Harrods DP department, so he may not be super-well informed. He wasn't that big a fan of the V-Piano anyway, it seemed, so who knows really.

I have always thought the V Piano was an odd instrument. Though I went to the London launch of the V-Grand, and thought it sounded pretty good, if a little lacking in oomph. The question remains though, why haven't they put V-Piano tech. into their "mainstream" DP range?

OH well, I suppose we'll have to wait and see :-)

Matt Taylor

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#2004559 - 12/26/12 11:51 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Dave Horne]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1775
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, if any entrepreneurs wish to build something for which there is a tremendous market waiting for it ...

How about a digital piano with a terrific sound system, great key bed, a default sound generator with an option to load your own software sound generator ?

It just seems like the time for this is now.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2004562 - 12/26/12 11:57 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I just bought my first DP, Kawai ES7 and absolutely love it. Prior to purchasing the ES7 I got to play/test many digital pianos in my purchasing process. Most memorable was the Yamaha CP300. I had a blast cranking it up at a local Guitar Center. Truly a classic board (circa 2006) now greatly behind by today's newer DPs. However, I would love to see a full blown update on the technology AND keep the GREAT on-board speakers. Let's just keep it easy and throw some on-board speakers to the CP1, price it at $2,999.00 and call it a CP400 ;-) Sorry, more of a wish than a prediction.
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#2004653 - 12/26/12 03:11 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: MacMacMac]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
...Do new features stimulate demand? Apparently not much.
Well, one big new feature would be to omit some supeflouos old ones and make a usable portable MIDI controller without any sound module and amlifyiers/boxes ... what a huge advancement...

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#2004790 - 12/27/12 04:24 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Temperament]
Maxpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Temperament
Viscount: Physis will debute. If not, it is a Vaporware then.


It should be not, they are demoing it around Italy and some shops are already listing it for sale (from January 2013)


Edited by Maxpiano (12/27/12 06:33 AM)
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#2004868 - 12/27/12 10:00 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: mitzysman]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 536
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: btcomm
I'm a little confused about the V-Piano statement from the Roland rep. He said the V-Piano sound couldn't compete with supernatural. So he's saying that their $7000 V sound is not as good as their much lower cost supernatural models? Huh? If that's the case then maybe they should mark down the price of the V to under $2000.


i believe that is exactly what he's saying. but dont think you'd see it marked down much, probably just becomes an orphan.

Originally Posted By: mitzysman
i thought the v-piano was a supernatual sound ? I've never seen one so I was just thinking it was.


The v-piano is not sampled- its 100% modelled- like pianoteq. Supernatural incorporates some of the effects modelling into recorded piano samples- a hybrid approach. For now, probably the most sensible approach.
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Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
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#2005298 - 12/28/12 03:03 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: bfb]
moleskincrusher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 169
I have no special knowledge, but I suspect we won't see many new piano products at NAMM 2013 but will have to wait for Frankfurt, where they can make maybe a bigger international splash.

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#2005413 - 12/28/12 10:24 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1715
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
My prediction is that no matter what is announced from where that someone will be on this forum complaining about it.
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#2005708 - 12/28/12 06:01 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8822
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
wink
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2005724 - 12/28/12 06:35 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: gvfarns]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 278
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I don't know that I've ever heard a rumor per se about a piano announcement. I wish I had.

I have unfounded speculations aplenty. Gimme a Kawai GF stage piano to replace the MP10--that's pretty likely since they have GF in several console models now. At this point we'd all be disappointed if they didn't. Maybe a Kawai MIDI controller (though it would be more likely to be RH2-based, not GF...because a GF midi controller would make me too happy). That would send shock waves around this forum if it happened bceause tons of us want a good midi controller and there just ain't any to be had. Probably about time they replaced the EP3 as well. It's several actions behind. The bad news: Kawai prices seem to be trending upward (unless it's just me), so don't expect to buy the GF stage piano for peanuts.

I don't know if Casio has any more fun announcements after the relatively recent slurry of pianos they came out with, but it would be fun.

Yamaha, well, the P105 is creeping up on the P155, which is due for a change. Decent chance the P155 could get replaced, which would also be a big deal in this forum since that is an oft recommended model. Apparently the CP33 and CP300 will never, ever, ever be replaced, so don't expect that. smile

I never know what Roland is doing. My guess is MOAR SUPERNATURAL, everywhere. Probably in lower level pianos as well. It would be cool if they had a SuperDuperNatural. A cheaper V piano would make some serious waves here and cause many a fun thread, but I'm not holding my breath. An upgraded a better V piano would be fun, but cause fewer waves. Still not holding breath.

I really can't predict what software pianos are going to do. I guess Ivory could come out with a new, individually sold piano. I can't guess what it would be. We'd all go nuts if it was a Kawai EX, but I'd think a handmade piano from a small, expensive brand of some sort is more likely (I know the EX is expensive and hand made in some senses, but Kawai is not small). Galaxy? Well, we can always hope.

Well, those are my guesses. I have no inside information whatsoever, so take it for what it's worth (which is entertainment value only).


I don't believe we shall see an updated V-Piano, however I do see in Roland's future the "super duper supernatural" sound as you comically put it. Perhaps called "supernatural plus" or "Supernatural V" and try and get somewhere between the current supernatural sound and the V-Piano's magnificence. Now I know I have EssBrace's blood boiling over that comment, lol however it makes sense By a purely marketing standpoint. They leave the V-Piano at premium $7000 price so only professionals continue to buy it, and market the technology into all of their lower brand name updates making them different and more innovative than Yamaha's midrange offerings. Ultimately it is all about competing against the rivals and the wording of the supernatural.marketing worked well the past four years.
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#2005726 - 12/28/12 06:42 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2372
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
try and get somewhere between the current supernatural sound and the V-Piano's magnificence. Now I know I have EssBrace's blood boiling over that comment, lol


mad
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Yamaha CP1

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#2005811 - 12/28/12 11:00 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2580
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
try and get somewhere between the current supernatural sound and the V-Piano's magnificence. Now I know I have EssBrace's blood boiling over that comment, lol


mad


I do like reading some of these comments, although I am not going to add anything to it. laugh

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#2005814 - 12/28/12 11:14 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: pv88]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 615
My #1 prediction would be a Yamaha P-165.
#2- A Korg Piano based on Kronos samples.
Now, would Korg do NH or RH3 next time around?
#3- A $999 portable Roland to compete with the P-165!
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#2005824 - 12/28/12 11:56 PM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3012
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Possum P105
My #1 prediction would be a Yamaha P-165.

I agree. It would be wonderful if the P155 replacement could retain the relatively light weight and simple interface, but include a main piano at least as good as that in the CP5, plus the SCM Rhodes and Wurlitzer. It would sell like hotcakes. Certainly, it looks like the P155 is on its way out, as discounts are now easy to obtain.

Quote:
#2- A Korg Piano based on Kronos samples.
Now, would Korg do NH or RH3 next time around?

A lot of people (including me) would like to see an SV-2 with the Kronos APs and EPs, but I wonder whether the market is big enough for Korg to venture further down that somewhat idiosyncratic path.

Quote:
#3- A $999 portable Roland to compete with the P-165!

This one seems unlikely to me. Roland don't really seem that interested in competing at the low end.
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#2005833 - 12/29/12 12:19 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: voxpops]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 615
The one piano that I would say (terms of wow factor, era it was in) was the Korg Sg ProX. I had the module of it for 12 years of so. I think it even had EQ sliders on it. I would like to see Korg do the same.

What I really envision them doing is taking the 2.8gb sample and 400mb samples (piano and rhodes respectively) from the Krome and putting it into some sort of package with RH3.

Or they would put it with NH, include speakers and that's how it would be different than the Krome 88.

They just seemed to have dropped out of pianos really altogether aside from workstations. LP-350 is based on old technology and the SP-170 hasn't been mentioned here in ages
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#2005935 - 12/29/12 09:10 AM Re: NAMM 2013: What are your stage piano predictions?? [Re: thercman]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I'd like to see a clock built into the screen of a keyboard.
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chopin unequal temperament
by opus18
07/09/14 11:06 PM
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07/09/14 10:54 PM
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07/09/14 09:38 PM
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