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#2005916 - 12/29/12 08:10 AM Kawai ES7 user thread
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
So here we go!
I'm having a great time exploring the possibilities of this instrument. Not a single issue, so far.
I've updated it to the latest version (1.12) in less than a minute. Kawai's site was very useful.
I'm 'feeling' the keys/sound more each time, though at low velocities I sometimes miss a note (it doesn't sound). That's a good emulation for a beginner, as in an upright it happens frequently.
The accompaniments are very funny and useful so as to practice scales and improvisation, and their sound is also great.
I still have to test many things: full blast, tweaking (just did something but not sure it improves the presets in therms of fidelity).
Well, not very much, I'm afraid, but it's my first experience with such a device.
Thanks again to everyone who would share their knowledge.I'll be posting here from now on to share anything that comes to my mind.
And here is the first: how to use the EQ properly, in order to avoid excessive brilliance? Sometimes, when using headphones, it's annoying. I have kinda dog ear.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2005920 - 12/29/12 08:30 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Hi mabraman,

Thanks for starting this thread. Im am rapidly learning more about my ES7. I've had it for almost two weeks and enjoy it immensely every time I play it. Like you, it took me a while to get the right sound to my liking. It can get a little bright with headphones. I set my touch to "heavy". Go to Menu 2 Virtual Tech the press Value to 2-1 Touch Curve and set = heavy. I tend to hit this keys a little hard so this perfect for me.

FYI, You might not be on the latest version. you said 1.12 - there is a 1.13.

Kawai James posted me this link last week: http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/updates.html

I did the update with no problem

Thanks again for starting the thread - Marko
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2005928 - 12/29/12 08:51 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1863
Loc: Pennsylvania
I have had my ES7 for 3 weeks.

I find the sound, and the touch, generally, to be very good.

However, I have also discovered a few (2 or 3)keys which tend to make an audible "tinny" sound when struck with anything other than a light toucvh. This sound also comes through the phones, so it is being generated by the sound engine. It is not a big deal and I can live with it but I do intend to contact Kawai and ask them about it.

To get my sound "just right" I run my lineout through a mixer and reduce the highs, increase the lows and then back out through my Focal monitors at a low volume to accompany the sound coming from my ES7 internal speakers. That seems to work well, for me.

The one serious negative I experienced is with the 3-pedal unit that I purchased. I found it installed much too close to the front of the piano and I just could not adjust to that distance. I now use the sustain pedal that comes with the ES7 and that is fine for me.

The furniture stand I purchased for it works (and looks) fine.

All, in all, I am very happy with my purchase and I now have a digital piano I love to play and a sound I love to hear.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2006533 - 12/30/12 12:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Today I've been testing some other functions:
-USB recorder: works fine, and it's a great help in some aspects beyond the obvious one.
-Touch curve (user): in addition to the different touch levels, there's one function that detects how you use the dynamics, and sets key sensitivity according to that. Interesting, but mine sounds worse than default settings. smile
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2006955 - 12/31/12 09:47 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Just a 'holding' post to say that when I have surfaced from my travels and have got back to exploring my recently acquired ES7 - just installed the latest firmware - I will contribute my thoughts to this thread. So far I am very impressed with the ES7.

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#2007452 - 01/01/13 12:33 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
FYI, Im using the Bose MIE2i Mobile Headset with my ES7. The sound is so incredible especially on the low notes. Go get a pair asap. I know it seems ridiculous for a DP but trust me on this one. Only $119 but well worth it (MIE2 under $100 just lacks controller on cord which you don't need for DPs). Worst case, you will have a nice set of headphones for your iPhone,ipda.ipod,droid, tab, mobile anything ;-)

update: dont forget to pick up a 1/4 adapter if you dont already have one. $3 radioshack


Edited by Marko in Boston (01/01/13 12:59 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2008380 - 01/03/13 06:32 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
In an earlier post on the ES7 I mentioned distortion when playing recordings through my hi-fi. The fault was in the LH speaker of my ancient hi-fi system. The offending bass unit (one of 2 in each speaker) is so ancient it was coming adrift. Too much Bruckner? It has now been taped together and the sound is now distortion-free. So, no fault down to the ES7, to my relief. The only comment on recording to an MP3 file is that the level - even with +5db gain - is very low. Amplifying via Audacity, (with no clipping, Audacity generally sets the gain at around +18db) gets the volume up OK for headphones, but the hi-fi system needs over 50% on the dial. Normally cds etc are OK at less than 25% on the dial. Just as well I have a decent amp!

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#2008385 - 01/03/13 07:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
And what about that jingeling sound I haven't been able to tweak? No matter how mellow the voicings are, or how much bass boost added. It's not a problem just with this DP, but common to all that I've tested before purchasing ES7.
Could it be the headphones (Sennheiser hd-205)?
It's like an excess of high frequency sounds impacting against my eardrum. I usually play at low sound levels when using headphones, but that feeling is always there. And it's annoying.
Any suggestion?
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2008390 - 01/03/13 07:35 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
'jingeling sound'?

If this is something you are able to reproduce, perhaps you can upload a recording for us to check?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2008395 - 01/03/13 07:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Hey James, it´s not any particullar sound, but the overall feeling when playing with headphones. It´s just too much high frequency sound coming towards eardrums and, as I mentioned aboved, it happens to me with every DP I've played.
I guess it could be the headphones (I should try some with flat response) or, perhaps, that high sounds, wich give a good realistic feeling when playing, are annoying when you hear them too directly.
But it's something I want to solve.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2008405 - 01/03/13 08:17 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Ah, I see, thank you for clarifying this point.

Other than reducing the highest frequencies of the onboard EQ, or selecting a different pair of headphones, I'm not entirely sure what else to suggest.

It almost sounds a little like a mild form of tinnitus, so perhaps a medical professional should be consulted?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2008423 - 01/03/13 08:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Don't mention The Beast!!!
It would be sad and cruel to suffer from tinnitus, now that I finally dare to study music.
But yes, I'll check it. First of all, let's do better EQ task, then phones...then lest's face The Beast. Thanks!
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2008907 - 01/04/13 09:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Well, i've just purchased some new headphones, Vick Firth is the make. Some drummer advised me to get them, as they are solid as a rock, noise isolation is high and response is near to flat.Even with some high-end Sennheiser the problem was still there, and those weren't too expensive (80€).
And...it worked!!
In fact, it has worked a little too much, 'cause now the sound is lacking a bit of brilliance, but I prefer it as a starting point to tweak from. Now, reverb sounds useful (it was annoying before)and I'd try to do some EQ to gain highs if needed.
Lesson learned: never play a DP with too dynamic headphones.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2008916 - 01/04/13 10:24 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Interesting you mention reverb. I'm starting to explore this too. No definite conclusions yet, but like you, I had ruled it out at the beginning.

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#2008984 - 01/04/13 02:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Hi Sandalholme. I'm still checking things, didn't get the righ tone yet but at least I have reduced some noise.
Anyway, today is one of those days that no matter what you try, it all sounds weird.
As we say in Spain, I feel more confused than an octopus into a garage. Too much reverberation...hope I didn't choose the wrong one sick
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2010187 - 01/06/13 06:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
The only comment on recording to an MP3 file is that the level - even with +5db gain - is very low. Amplifying via Audacity, (with no clipping, Audacity generally sets the gain at around +18db) gets the volume up OK for headphones, but the hi-fi system needs over 50% on the dial. Normally cds etc are OK at less than 25% on the dial. Just as well I have a decent amp!


My apologies for this delayed reply...

The USB audio recorder level is purposely set a little low to ensure that a broad dynamic range of playing (i.e. very soft to very loud) can be captured without clipping. This may be too low for recording very soft pieces, so the current generation of Kawai DPs feature a 'Recorder Gain' setting to help boost the recording level.

You note that at the +5 dB setting, the level is still a little low. Did you try increasing this further to the maximum +10 dB setting?

By the way, an alternative, less 'destructive' method of increasing the volume of recordings is to use a tool such as MP3Gain/ReplayGain. This software scans audio files and embeds additional tags informing the player software/hardware to boost or attenuate the signal, without actually changing the audio data itself.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2011012 - 01/08/13 05:56 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Many thanks James. I will do a few comparisons: no ES7 gain/max Audacity; max ES7 gain/min Audacity etc just to check whether there is any audible difference. In other words, which is the cleaner method.

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#2011403 - 01/08/13 07:24 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Radion Romanovich Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 39
Hi,

I acquired an ES7 2-3 months ago and had to send it to repair because some keys where starting to make a rattling 'springy' sound which was mechanical and developed further with use. Technician said there was nothing he could do because of this, even though other Kawai units don't show this defect.

I can replace this unit with a new one, but first I would like to know of other ES7 users experiences with this (and potentially other) failures before taking the plunge. Otherwise I would resort to choose from another brand, but I do like the ES7, so I would like to know if this was a particularity of my unit.

The salesman showed me how other DP in store –including top-of-the-line KRONOS–, had this thing in some of their keys, and said it shouldn't be considered a defect, especially with stage slabs. Make of that what you will, but I wouldn't bet that many people here would settle for 2K DPs with rattling keys during the first months of use. I know that customers are not priority for some DP brands but this would be ridiculous.

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#2011405 - 01/08/13 07:29 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Radion, if there is a defect with your ES7 and you have the option of receiving a brand new replacement, I see no reason not to take it - especially given that you like the instrument.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2011407 - 01/08/13 07:35 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
Radion Romanovich Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 39
Yeah, it's just that I'm afraid of the salesman's suggestion that this is not a defect and in fact something to be expected from DP slabs, which I find somewhat odd. He also suggested that this might have to do with damage in transportation.

I'm interested to know about other people's experiences on this. By the way James, do you know if the current ES7 batch coming from Indonesia/Japan is still the first?

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#2011421 - 01/08/13 08:19 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
buladscot Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 6
It is not a big deal and I can live with it but I do intend to contact Kawai and ask them about it.
_________________________
bulad scot

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#2011424 - 01/08/13 08:24 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Radion Romanovich]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Radion Romanovich
By the way James, do you know if the current ES7 batch coming from Indonesia/Japan is still the first?


I'm afraid I do not understand your question.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2011442 - 01/08/13 09:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 623
Hello, I use to play the ES6 on visits to Sam Ash in New York- really like the action and speaker layout.

In New Jersey is there a dealer or list of dealers that sell these?
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2011454 - 01/08/13 09:35 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Possum, there is a dealer locator on the Kawai America website:

http://kawaius.com/locator2012.html

You may also wish to drop them a line to enquire into dealers in your area:

http://kawaius.com/nav_links/contacts2010.html

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2011463 - 01/08/13 09:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: buladscot]
Radion Romanovich Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 39
Quote:
It is not a big deal and I can live with it but I do intend to contact Kawai and ask them about it.


From this I gather you do have some issues with key noises. Would you care to elaborate so we can understand the nature of your defect? For instance, a short description and time you've had these issues since your unit was new from the box.


Quote:
I'm afraid I do not understand your question.

James
x


I mean to say if you could tell us if Kawai is already producing a second or third line of ES7 digital pianos, in regards to manufacturing improvements that are expected from any kind of industry.

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#2011470 - 01/08/13 10:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Radion Romanovich]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1863
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Radion Romanovich
Quote:
It is not a big deal and I can live with it but I do intend to contact Kawai and ask them about it.


From this I gather you do have some issues with key noises. Would you care to elaborate so we can understand the nature of your defect? For instance, a short description and time you've had these issues since your unit was new from the box.



That is a quote from my comment so I assume you are asking me to elaborate on an issue with my ES7.

I have noticed from time to time that certain keys (middle E, and 1 octave up from middle E) seem to sound quite "tinny" when struck with more than light touch. It is not always real noticable and I have been able to EQ it out through my mixer somewhat, but it definitely is there.

Some might say that I am being too picky, and maybe I am. I hear it but I cannot say that the casual listener would hear it in the context of playing a piece of music.

So, I am not sure if I will pursue it.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2011475 - 01/08/13 10:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Radion Romanovich]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Radion Romanovich
I mean to say if you could tell us if Kawai is already producing a second or third line of ES7 digital pianos, in regards to manufacturing improvements that are expected from any kind of industry.


I'm not aware of any 'second or third line' of ES7 instruments. To my knowledge, Kawai's digital piano facility produces instruments continuously everyone month.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2011488 - 01/08/13 11:35 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
Radion Romanovich Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 39
dmd:

I see we are not talking about the same problem. Since you're using an EQ to neutralize this effect this implies that your problem lies from the internal sound source. I have noticed this 'tinny' or brilliant quality you speak of, which is kind of tiring and reminds of of tinnitus when using my heapdhones(pun unintended) – I accept this as a sampling characteristic/handicap. Besides, I will always expect piano-in-a-box sound deficiencies from DPs.

My problem is mechanical and happens when the key is returning to its natural position. It sounds like the typical spring sound used in old cartoons, and I think it is the weight attached to the opposite side of the key (weighted hammer) bouncing onto something as it stabilizes to its resting position.



Have you experienced this? How old is your ES7? It would be cool if other users joined this discussion so we can see if this is expected behavior from the ES7. I think not and hope you haven't had this issue.

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#2011508 - 01/09/13 12:35 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
@mabraman,

You are not the only one here that might have this ailment of tinnitus as I have lived with the high pitched ringing in my ears ever since I was a teenager, and, a lot of it was due to middle ear infections I suffered as a youth (i.e., the subsequent surgeries I went through by being put under with ether gas that probably took away some brain cells along with the tubes they stuck into my eardrums to drain off fluid), so this is something you never get rid of.

The tinnitus I have contributes to the fuzzy and buzzing sounds I hear in the Kawai CA95's piano sounds, as others tell me they do not hear this when I make recordings in an attempt to illustrate it. The piano is apparently not at fault, but my ears are.

Would probably be better off to become completely deaf (like Beethoven) so that one no longer has to bear with the ringing in the ears and then can concentrate on only the music we hear in our heads, instead.

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#2011549 - 01/09/13 04:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
I don't have a full-time tinnitus, yet, though here and there I hear some whistle that (luckily) dies in some seconds. I know I'll have this issue some day, as it's hereditary. And I know once it starts you just can´t do anything but to live with it (well, there's some brain re-education/workout that can be done to "ignore" that sounds).
By means of this (and for my ear sensitvity is superb) I am very carefull when listening to music, specially with earphones. Usually, 20% power is enough for me, while others need much more to enjoy the music. I simply get sore ears when playimg loud.

Regarding high pitches on the ES7, during this first weeks I've concluded that is its sound signature. ES7 default sounds are crystalline, which is good, but for some ear they might be too bright. Even too electronic. It's a very dynamic piano, too, and needs an accurate touch. Mellow options are warmer but maybe too looped and confusing. Waiting for Dewster and his review.
Besides, when you play through earphones there's some kind of "shok wave" that is very annoying. You must be very carefull on the attack and touch, or even better, tweak the sound in order to get some safe-and-pleasant-through-earphones-sound. But listen, this is not an specific ES7 issue, it's about every DP out there. What is good to be played through speakers doesn't work directly into ears.

About ringy notes...maybe some of them are hard to control. And by the way, the mellow pianos have some flat or weird notes too, not a big problem but I'll try to identify them all and then submitt it to Kawai. This could be related to 88 key sampling, where unevenness is more likely to happen. But hope it can be fixed by an update.

About the keybed...mine works perfectly so far. Even height and space, nice responsiveness (way better than school upright). My wife says she can hear it from the next room, but...who cares? 3hearts

And last, my piano firmwear (purchased on December) was updated to 1.10 version, and I haven't had (proper) sound or key issues, so I asume it's not from "first generation".
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2011555 - 01/09/13 05:10 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
FYI

I bought the Kawai ES7 last month and have a some very positive posts about it. However, I never mentioned that when I bought my ES7 and brought it home that night that the E4 key was dead - no sound. I immediately brought back to the dealer that night and he swamped it out for another new one without hesitation. Dealer said it's not uncommon that some of keyboards get damaged on delivery from manufacturer. The good news is Kawai (and my dealer) will resolve any issue in their power to make sure customer is satisfied. (... and no, i do not work for Kawai or any piano dealer.) or just simply run any Kawai issue by Kawai James first. He always has a quick response that puts you in the right direction.

note: After a month of playing the ES7 for hours each day, I like more than the day I got, especially because I learned most features that make the overall experience so enjoyable. Let me know if you have any questions.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2011574 - 01/09/13 06:27 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Radion Romanovich]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1863
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Radion Romanovich
dmd:

My problem is mechanical and happens when the key is returning to its natural position. It sounds like the typical spring sound used in old cartoons, and I think it is the weight attached to the opposite side of the key (weighted hammer) bouncing onto something as it stabilizes to its resting position.



Have you experienced this? How old is your ES7?


No, I can't say that I have ... thankfully. I purchased my ES7 a little over a month ago. I have to say that other than what I described on those few keys, the sound has been excellent. I really enjoy playing it. I go back to the CA63 from time to time and run the sound through the same process as I have the ES7 attached to ... just to see if there is a real difference and I have to return quickly to the ES7. The sound (my opinion, of course) is definitely better on the ES7 than on the CA63. I am very pleased with this purchase.


Edited by dmd (01/09/13 06:29 AM)
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2012615 - 01/11/13 05:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Yesterday I made some changes on the GC 1 sound: set touch to heavy, added some bass/mid bass (+3 db) and less trebble (-1db), choosed dynamic voicing...and I liked it more (through headphones).


Here are some things I intend to do this weekend:

-Piano sound layering. I've read a CA93 thread where they share custom settings, and think it would be fine to do the same here.
-Tests for some different Bass/mid bass/mid/trebble balances.
-Then I'll try to record them all, and upload/link here. I'm specially interested in you to hear the Mellow sound, that I find strange sometimes.
-Play more through speakers. I'm getting tired of headphones, where I honestly can't hear a better sound, despite everyone here says so. It's strange that I can listen to HI-FI recordings with both my headphones without saturation problems and I'm not being able to get a good experience on ES7. Wish I could record that sound, in order to show it's not a matter of ears.
Time to go to boxes!!

Please put all my comments in perspective: I'm a beginner, so what I feel or hear could be related to my short experience,not to the piano.

P.S.: I need to check one more thing. I've just recalled that, when listening to Mp3 piano sound recorded via usb, and then listening through headphones, the sound is better (not annoying) than when I just play. Could it be possible, or am I dreaming?



Edited by mabraman (01/11/13 06:41 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2012648 - 01/11/13 08:16 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I PM-ed you some tests you could perform to find out what could be the cause of your bad headphone experience. I personally have no problem with the ES7 headphone output whatsoever..., but as always there could be something that has to do with your particular unit.

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#2012681 - 01/11/13 09:38 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
mabraman - I think I experience (on my CA95, very similar technology no doubt) the same phenomenon which you describe as "jingling". When listening though headphones, no matter how low the master volume it always feels too much, I hear the pitched jingling or ringing or saturation artifacts which are usually present when the volume is too high. I remeber the same thing when I playtested other Kawai pianos at store (CA65 + others). When I used different headphones (borrowed from the store), it vanished. I know I have some hearing problems and it may be related but I believe it is caused by the headphones or the piano-headphones combination. I plan to buy different headphones for this reason (now I have some mid/low level closed Sennheisers). Nevertheless, I enjoy the sound in headphones more than the speakers.

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#2012942 - 01/11/13 04:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Thanks for your answers. This afternoon I've been trying some new combinations, then playing and recording in WAV for more than an hour in order to get the most of it.
Sound through onboard speakers is not as clear and detailed as through headphones (I could say it's bad but don't want to be unfair), anyway artifacts that Hookxs mentioned above are still obvious. Therefore I'll play more this way from now on, or with headphones at a very low level. I'm fed up with it.
A last try would be to test some open-bach headphones, or running the sound through some external amp. and then to monitors or even back to DP, as someone suggested.
Increasing the recording level on 4db has worked fine. No clicks so far, and sounds REALLY well (despite me) trough some Onkyo amp. and B&W speakers (even using a laptop to read the files). Half blast required. So my guess is, that some annoying sound could be due to the quality (ok, let's say personality) of DP's amp. combined with the quality of my own ears.
Next monday I'll upload some recordings.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013008 - 01/11/13 06:21 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi,

I don't fully get all the different configurations you tried, but :

1) When you connect the output of the DP to your external receiver/amplifier and then listen to the headphone output of this amplifier , is then everything OK without any of the ringing / distortion you experience ? Using the same headphones of course.

2) when you record directly to USB stick in WAV format and play back this file on good external equipment over the same headphones , is then everything OK too ??

When both is a YES, the fault could be a bad headphone output on your ES7 unit.

When there is NO difference, then it's possible we're talking about the sound character of the AP sound of the ES7. So I also wonder if OTHER sounds then AP give the same bad experience over the ES headphone output, or even a reference recording you play back directly from USB stick on the ES ? If it is ONLY with the AP sound , chances are its the sound itself you may dislike....

These few tests will tell a lot about what's happening. By the way don't expect studio monitor quality sound from the internal speakers. They serve a different purpose and are in no way in the same perfect speaker body, shape, position and have a linear frequency curve. They are "build-in speakers"...they should be enjoyable and loud enough to play, not serve as a reverence.

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#2013208 - 01/12/13 04:28 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Thanks again, JFP for such clever advice!!
I did what you suggested me to try, in order to determine if its my ears, or headphones, or amp...:

Clarification: just for solo piano sounds playing easy smooth pieces. Mechanical noises off. The rest set to default.

1.-Testing both headphone inputs: I'd swear that right side sounds slightly better than left, but honestly I was too tired, or influenced, to distinguish at that level of details. They both work fine, at least. Neither clicks nor scratches, or background noises.

2.-Recording some tunes (+4db gain;WAV format).

3.-Listening to them trough different headphones (sennheiser HD250; Vic Firth SI H1)on the ES7: sounds better to me with Vic Firth's. I don't know why. They have both the same impedance (32 ohm.)and almost the same sound pressure level, but Vic Firth's smooths the sound and lowers it. I guess, as they are designed for drummers, there must be some healthy filtering going on. Sennheiser sounds more clear and loud, therefore more noisy. Harsh might be the word. Saturation is obvious on both headphones, but defining it as "too much power for a certain membrane to bear"...it could be my eardrums and not the piano amp.

4.-Listening to them trough piano speakers: saturation (but hardly distortion) at max. volume is obvious, it sounds better from 3/4 down. Board is all plastic and metal and speakers are small and cheap, so no surprise (though it's not a cheap DP!!). Sounds less annoying than headphones, but there is something going wrong with it. I think that these piano sounds are very powerful, "realistic" and clear in some way (thats why we choosed Kawai)and the amp. inside just can't manage them properly. I'll work more in reducing high-pitched to see what I can do to make my daily practice more comfortable. But now I understand those saying Kawais sound harsh. It's not the sound engine, but the final product.

5.-Listening to them trough a laptop--->headphone input---->Onkyo Hi-Fi amplifier external input----->Bower & Wilkins speakers: you need half its power to reach a decent volume, and IT SOUNDS VERY WELL INDEED. Did my ears suddenly change?

6.-Listening through Onkyo amp. with headphones: rattly sounds when listening to +4db recordings, but it could be the headphone input of my amp. Despite of it, the sound was cleaner to my ears, I mean that excessive briliance vanished to bearable levels.

Don't bother, this boring/hilarious syntax post is about to end.

Conclusions:

a) The more headphones/external amp. strains it, the better (in terms of high-pitch) the sound is.
b) Maybe closed back headphones are not the best option, because some pitches need more room.
c)The internal amp. could be better to match its own piano samples. I realize it happens to almost every DP (cheap components), so much people ends using external amps or mixers, and VSTs.
d)This happens mostly with AP sounds (what a paradox!) and not with EP (which you expect to sound electronic),strings, choir or even vibs (this one sounds almost perfect, and it's strange in such a hard instrument to equalize due to hi-pitch). This also happens when you add reverb, exept with room. Strange again, when default sounds include small hall!
e)The accoustic piano sounds, therefore, are balanced in a way that can't satisfy certain ears. You'll need some extras to get the most out of it (like in most other DP's)if you are the kind.
f)what you hear in youtube official demos is not what you'll hear out of the box. Try some other videos and you'll hear some not so slight differences.
e)you need to join this kind of forums so as to learn the basics, because some DP's are setup to be bought, not to play music.

As music and sounds (and everything that regards to perception) can't be objectively judged, please put above words in perspective.
ES7 works very well, the only point it could be clearly better is just whistle the sound balance.



Edited by mabraman (01/12/13 06:07 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013235 - 01/12/13 05:58 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
mabraman, I agree that sound cannot be judged objectively.

Originally Posted By: mabraman
Board is all plastic and metal


Which parts are plastic?

Originally Posted By: mabraman
f)what you hear in youtube official demos is not what you'll hear out of the box.


To my knowledge, the sound heard in the videos is recorded directly from the instrument - there is no additional processing.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2013245 - 01/12/13 06:28 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
James, the whole case and a good part of the speakers are plastic made. I supposed that could give some colour to the sound trough speakers, but maybe I'm wrong, since I've always lived in a cave and never listened to music before (ironic mode off). Even headphones are plastic made. What a question!!
I'm not talking bad about ES7, I'm just a customer whose money was perfect "out of the purse". I come here to beg for some help in order to get the better sound, as I admit(from the very beggining of each post) that I know almost nothing.
But I'm not stupid. When I listen to official videos USING THE SAME HEADPHONES TROUGH A LAPTOP OR PC it sounds waaayyy better than my piano.It's not how they play, but how it sounds!! When I listen to any music it sounds well, too, I just need to adjust the power to suit my taste, either in my computers or hifi system or pc at work.
When I record what I play (wich sounded harsh and, I thought, was my fault as I'm a begginer player) and listen to it on other systems it sounds better ALWAYS, wether you and me like it, or not.
Believe me, as a player I'm a crap, but as a listener I'm 45 years experienced.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013248 - 01/12/13 06:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I'll have to double check this with the designer, but I'm pretty sure the ES7 chassis is constructed from metal (aluminium and steel) and wood.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2013253 - 01/12/13 07:01 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
My fault. It's DM made perhaps (knocking on it sounds woody) along with some plastic and metal. I lost breaks when I said it was plastic made.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013254 - 01/12/13 07:03 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Mabraman, I know this sounds like a joke, but I have several pairs of good headphones(ie Sennheiser HD380 and Ultrasone HFI-780) But I choose to simply use the Bose MIE2i Mobile Headset with my ES7. Yes, the same buds I use with my ipod. The sound is fantastic especially on the low notes. Almost seems like my real good headphone are too good for any DP and the cheap Bose is a perfect match. Go get a pair asap. I know it seems ridiculous for a DP but trust me on this one. Only $119 but well worth it (MIE2 under $100 just lacks controller on cord which you don't need for DPs). Worst case, you will have a nice set of headphones for your iPhone,ipda.ipod,droid, tab, mobile anything ;-)

update: dont forget to pick up a 1/4 adapter if you dont already have one. $3 radioshack
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2013256 - 01/12/13 07:13 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Thanks Marko, you gave that same advice to me some time ago, I googled it and found those headphones are to be plugged inside ears. Am I wrong? I prefer not to use that kind, it hurts me (and is not recommended from a healthy point of view). Ears didn't evolve to listen to such a direct sound source(yes, neither to circumaural type).


Edited by mabraman (01/12/13 07:14 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013260 - 01/12/13 07:32 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: mabraman
It's DM made...


I'm afraid I don't know what that means.
Nothing to do with the chunky footwear, presumably.

Originally Posted By: mabraman
I lost breaks when I said it was plastic made.


Sorry, 'lost breaks'? I'm afraid I don't understand that either.

Again, I'll have to clarify this with the designer, however I'm pretty sure the ES7 cabinet is made from metal and wood. The volume slider and buttons are plastic.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2013284 - 01/12/13 08:34 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
DM (medium density) means bind (glued) toghether sawdust or wooden fibers without lignin. Ikea-like furnitures, if you prefer. I thought they were common initials for this material, but the english order of adjectives is different, sorry. Whats the english name for it? Guess MD.
Saying "I lost breaks" I meant "cool it, mabraman".

By the way, I've just been playing for a while and found mellow1 more pleasant. I'll play low level (a bit less than half the power) and figure it's ok.
How do you like that?
Thanks for your patience.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013320 - 01/12/13 09:50 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: mabraman
How do you like that?




Originally Posted By: mabraman
Thanks for your patience.


No problem. wink
I'm waiting for the football to kick-off in the UK...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2013549 - 01/12/13 04:33 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@Mabramam,

My thoughts on your story (and Kawai may hate me about this, or not…;-)

At first , the ES7 is a decent product in it's price range offering a nice package in a nice format that does most things pretty well. My remarks are made in context that I originally come from a studio engineering background and am quite perceptive to anomalities in sound quality. This is my first DP with build-in speakers and amp. Before that I always used external HQ audio equipment and studio monitors. Not a fair comparison; that is something to keep in mind ! I also know my ears and mind can play tricks with me , therefore some findings may be subjective and not be an issue with other people.

I too struggled a lot in the beginning with my ES7 because I thought there was some sort of distortion / ringing introduced in the AP piano sound. After many many tests and a lot of email exchanges between myself and several Kawai employees my conclusion was :

1) There is a certain buildup of resonances that is part of the PHI processing and algorithms . It's a matter of taste if you like and not a system fault. I decided to ignore it, once I knew what was going on. Knowing may ears weren't tricking me and nothing was wrong with the ES in this respect was a satisfactory answer to me.

2) There is a certain 'stress' and ringing of the sound when playing loud over the speakers. This happens from roughly 80 ~ 100% volume setting and with forceful playing. If you hit key combinations where the mentioned PHI processing will have peak resonances, the ringing effect will be most audible. Together with some Kawai Technicians we concluded that a piano cabinet like this will always have a slight resonance somewhere when going full-throttle , be it the speakers, the cabinet or both. The 'stress' however may indeed be introduced by the amp/speaker system that falls just slightly short of the ideal power and quality it may need for this kind of purpose (playing very loud). It's good and the loudness is sufficient , but it is not as clean and with same headroom as some 3rd party solutions. Note that the stress/ ringing effects are audible , but only very slightly and most people might not be bothered at all !

3) The headphone output is actually very good with my headphones (Grado / Sennheiser HD250 Linear MKII - both open types). Only at 100% with FFF playing some stress is introduced by the amp, but I normally never play that loud. I'd suggest nobody does , if you want to keep healthy ears for much longer.

4) The audio input signal path is usable , but lacks a correcting EQ for playback over the speakers and the input has no level control. You can overcome most of these shortcomings by keeping the signal path before the input as short as possible , use HQ gear and add a decent volume level controller. Still, there is a little coloring and stress on the sound, but it is within margin when you take the mentioned precautions.

5) The keybed is good. Some units have slight uneven spacing - like mine. But it does not have an effect on the playability - so it's purely cosmetic. E.g. the space between right side of G# and A is slightly bigger on several units I've seen and that I've heard of in another way (PM's etc).

6) Key travel is a little shorter than on previous RH. We measured it together and it's roughly 10 vs 11 mm. Some may find this more convenient , others may have to get used to it. No big deal, just a fact if you wonder that you feel a difference there ; yes you do ;-)

In many cases you may not notice any of these findings on your unit at all, or simply don't bother. This is basically the list of 'things' you 'might' encounter on an ES7. At least knowing these facts, you will not be puzzled by it and can enjoy the ES7 for what it is - instead of waste time looking for answers. It is a very nice piano for a decent price (in most countries) and the things I describe here are all minor details on this overall very wel functioning DP. Some people, like me and Mabramam and a few others may have some thoughts about the AMP/audio signal quality , but it's all within a certain margin and I don't think other DP's on the market with build in speakers will do better in this price range. I never play 100% Volume , so I decided not to be bothered by it either. I think in the cases where you DO need to go very loud, the little stress and ring it introduces are negligible in the surrounding where you are performing, which is I assume a live situation (gig / choir accompanist / playing outside / restaurant,…) However for future updates this could be a component where Kawai techies might make some improvement; it is good, it can be better.

I'm done with fine-tuning and examining my ES7 and prefer to play and enjoy it and take some things for granted. It's a good machine, not 100% perfect, but which DP is ?! Especially considering price. But I also hope Kawai takes notes and can improve their product even further by looking at customer feedback and take into consideration some of us may be overly critical and annoying , but also not crazy and some points pop up too often to be served off as total nonsense.

Kawai , keep up the good work and for all ES7 owners ; enjoy your DP !


Edited by JFP (01/12/13 04:57 PM)

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#2013671 - 01/12/13 09:36 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
6) Key travel is a little shorter than on previous RH. We measured it together and it's roughly 10 vs 11 mm. Some may find this more convenient , others may have to get used to it. No big deal, just a fact if you wonder that you feel a difference there ; yes you do ;-)


JFP, may I ask who is 'we' in this context?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2013806 - 01/13/13 07:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
You are right, JFP, and I've learnt a lot of lessons from your speech. Main is to enjoy more and be more positive (but never unreasonably positive in the way some people tend to justify a purchase). I'm glad, too, now that I know my ears are not the main problem, and that my concerns had at least some objective basement. I can't say anything is going definitely wrong with ES7, but I understand that technicians reached some compromise solutions between sound engine/speakers/amp. It works, and fine by the way for most people, but if your ear is picky or just very sensitive you'd better go and use external improvement. ES7 can't match hifi quality. Again, this is nothing new, as we all read same comments in regards to other brands and models.
Here is interesting to know where you come from and what kind of sound you are expecting to hear.
JFP comes from a pro environment which gave him a high sound quality (and maybe unfair)point of comparison. My point of view is more common, I'm the tipycal grown-picky-listener-used-to-hifi quality who still can't happily accept that a 1240€ device need some extra expense (or even firmware updates) so as to sound properly. Perhaps I'm off-topic, so I'll stop it.
But I wonder (and it's no moan) how can I enjoy more some cheaper general devices such as laptops with average headphones where I listen to mp3 streaming sites? The same ES7 sounds better this way to my ears, therefore I asume I need to strain the sound. Done!
If anybody is in a similar situation, do as others adviced before: set the touch to heavy (so the sound is easier to control), voicings to dynamic (same reason), try different EQ balance and explore the "mellow zone".
ES7 has enough improvement margin (via Virtual Technician) so as to fight again its own weaknesses. I hope.
Now I'm going to play!
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2013828 - 01/13/13 09:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Dorset, UK
Yes, the ES7 isn't perfect - it's not even claiming to be top of the range. It's just amazingly good value for money. I didn't expect the built-in amp/speaker system to be hi-fi standard, but when I was trying it in the showroom I hardly used my headphones, only to check that, as expected, the sound was better through them. Having now played mine for a few weeks - with large gaps because of Christmas/travelling etc, I am now settling in to enjoy playing it with settings that are stabilising. (I am an inveterate tinkerer)

Today for the first time I went back to my RX2......... Well, it's easier to play! I have spent quite some time adjusting to the touch/feel of a DP. Strengths and weaknesses? ES7 strengths: clarity, easy (and satisfying) to record from), facility to have different instruments for different composers; weaknesses: less authentic sound, poor touch more unforgiving than the RX2, eg a quick dab with the little finger on an isolated bass note octaves down the keyboard can come out too loud. RX2 strengths: the sound, the action; weaknesses: at the mercy of room acoustics, tuning and, some may be surprised to hear, a less solid bass than the ES7 - but the bass sound is still more authentic.

As I originally thought and wrote, they are just different beasts.

Just two (so far) concerns/requests for James when he wanders onto this thread. Why can you only reduce the pitch from 440 to 427? A full semitone to A = 415 would get us into genuine baroque pitch territory. Secondly, I have been trying out Pianoteq. Both line in to the ES7 cables I have used have produced a whistling tone, not loud, but clearly audible through speakers and headphones. Maybe there are technical requirements here I am not aware of.

Re Pianoteq. I have only tried it briefly but apart from the Bluethner there isn't a huge difference in sound, ie piano-like quality, compared to the native ES7 sounds. Certainly not worth my time to try and improve on them, except the Bluethner. I quite liked that sound.

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#2013868 - 01/13/13 10:54 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi , I layer the ES7 with pianoteq from time to time. Works very well if you carefully balance the internal a d externl sound. Kawai has a better attack phase, pianoteq rules in the sustain phase.

The audio-in will produce a distorted tone when simultaneously used with a USB midi connection. Therefore the audio has to be decoupled / ground lifted. There are plenty of ground loop isolator extension cables on the marked. Perhaps that's what you re hearing ?

Also using very good cabling changes a lot. Well shielded and with decent (gold?) contacts.

Third thing is that most laptops / computers / mp3 players have a standard audio out on mini jack that has a changing impedance , depending on what you connect to it and the volume setting. This doesn't go we'll with the ES7 input. Use a decent audio interface with fixed line out levels and impedance. Or , like me, go digital out on your laptop, use an external DA converter and go line level from there into the ES7.

Hope this helps.

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#2014369 - 01/14/13 11:24 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
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Many thanks JFP. Some more work to do at some time - it will be a while before I seriously bolt on Pianoteq, or any other software piano but it's good to know there's a solution.

Now, where's James when you want him. A = 415???

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#2014375 - 01/14/13 11:31 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
maurus Offline
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A=415?

Does the ES7 have a transpose function where you can transpose all keys by a given interval? If yes, just use this function to transpose down by a semitone, and then adjust pitch as needed.

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#2015285 - 01/16/13 05:32 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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New short Kawai ES7 video. You think the sound is straight thru the on-board speakers? I see a lot of wires connected in the back. Just wondering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ggXx9pArmo



Edited by Marko in Boston (01/16/13 05:33 AM)
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#2015327 - 01/16/13 08:02 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
New short Kawai ES7 video. You think the sound is straight thru the on-board speakers? I see a lot of wires connected in the back. Just wondering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ggXx9pArmo



That looks like the 2 lineouts and the damper hookups.

He is running the sound through external speakers and he does not have the 3-pedal attachment.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2015346 - 01/16/13 08:38 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: maurus]
sandalholme Online   content
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Thanks maurus. Yes,it does, I found it eventually!

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#2016424 - 01/17/13 11:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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Can someone explain what WALL EQ actually does ?

My ES7 is positioned with its' back about 1.5 feet from a wall.

I have tried WALL EQ Off and on and do not really notice anything different.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2016510 - 01/18/13 03:55 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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I also don't know how it works. Mine is closer than yours to a wall, just a ¿palm?¿handspan? from a bare wall.The rest of the room is well dressed in wood and books. When I turn Wall EQ on it seems to have a slight effect on the sound which I couldn't describe with words, perhaps less reverberation and more warmth. Honestly, built-in speakers are not very precise so it's hard to tell.
But there are so many ways to modify sound signals that I don't know what is it working on.
As far as I've read, the most typical effect related to rooms is the echo. Sound waves, rebounding and then coming from walls, give some spaciality to the sound, which is desirable within a given margin. If the wave reaches you ear in 50ms. or less it won't be perceived as "negative" or "delayed". Our brain will fit it into the overall sound and this echo will make sense.
If you room is well dressed with furnitures or bookshells and carpets, you probably won't hear the difference (I'm asuming that you test it trough speakers).The echo will be absorbed.
But with regards to which frequency range is being modified by this EQ...I just don´t know.
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#2016574 - 01/18/13 08:36 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
JFP Offline
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Wall-EQ; haven't played a lot with it. Might be some adjustments in the low range specifically I guess, because of wall reflections. Reflections can also cause phase reversal , but I doubt the Wall-EQ will do some phase tricks as well , but again ; you never know.

I'm afraid it'll be trial and error to see if the Wall-EQ brings anything good for you when positioned at a wall. A little more info from Kawai wouldn't hurt...(assumed wall distance, what the EQ does, etc)

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#2021189 - 01/25/13 03:43 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Ok, this is goofy but fun to play and sounds pretty darn good on the ES7:

I was cleaning out some stuff (mostly Christmas) and came across Vince Guaraldi Trio Charlie Brown Christmas. So I was semi-inspired to procrastinate and play some of it the piano one last time until next year.

This is what I did that was a little different and fun: I played "Christmas is Coming" with these settings:

- layer Concert Grand (at 6) with W.Base & Ride (at 4)
- EQ=OFF
- Touch Curve=Heavy

Try it! (ok, so I had a lot of idle time today on my day off. Just roll with it and humor me.)



Edited by Marko in Boston (01/25/13 03:45 PM)
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#2024104 - 01/30/13 03:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Here you are, a couple of songs recorded via USB in wav.
I think I put some 4db gain on one of them, not sure though.
¿How do you find the sound? (and I mean THE SOUND, lol).

https://soundcloud.com/mabraman
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#2025547 - 02/01/13 07:35 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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I am wondering if any of these ES7 Users have been working with the Rhythm section and if so ....

Do you have a specific rhythm suggestion for a nice slow jazz tune in 4/4 time. For example, MISTY.

I have been through all of those rhythms and none of them stand out to me as appropriate.

That probably is my biggest disappointment with this instrument. However, that might be partially dependent upon my lack of experience with that type of background stuff.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2025729 - 02/02/13 04:19 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
dire tonic Offline
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A song like misty would need something unintrusive from the drums, maybe just brushes on a snare drum or a simple ride cymbal pattern - e.g. struck once on every quarter note - would work. Anything tricksy or dancy is going to sound weird and even simple patterns with bass drum and snare are going to sound too driving. Pre-programmed patterns don't usually offer anything basic enough.

I don't have the ES7 and I've not laid hands on one but I downloaded the manual a few weeks ago when the piano was on my contenders list (I bought the casio px-150 instead on impulse and to save some money - I'm beginning to regret that). From what I see, there are no brushes available but you have a collection of different ride cymbals on the notes D#2 and B2, the best would probably be from the analog set. I haven't looked at the record feature so I don't know how it works. Can you record a simple 4 to the bar ride cymbal and set it up as a song? If you've got a loop feature that would make short work of it otherwise you're going to have to spend 3 or 4 minutes robotically tapping it in.

If that's possible you could also try, in later choruses, adding a closed hi-hat (F#1) on beats 2 and 4. You'd need to experiment with the level.

The pattern may seem a bit dull almost pointless but it should provide a kind of ether to support the piano. A real drummer would punctuate with fills here and there. You could improve the cymbal motif by adding an occasional quieter tap on the 1/8 note triplet immediately preceding the quarter note strike on beats 1 or 3. A string bass would help as well - I guess you could layer that?




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#2025764 - 02/02/13 08:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dire tonic]
dmd Online   content
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Thank you for the suggestions.

I was hoping for a little more "plug n play" type of thing.

This machine has dozens of rhythms and not one for something as basic as Misty. That seems ridiculous to me.

But what do I know ...
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2025772 - 02/02/13 08:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: dmd
I was hoping for a little more "plug n play" type of thing.


That's understandable. A suitable drum groove for misty or any jazz/standard ballad is of its nature going to be fairly skeletal. I suppose when these drum patterns are being programmed they don't want to give the impression they've been slacking on the job so value for money means throwing in the kitchen sink (I don't think you've got a midi note for that).

OTOH one of the other owners may know of something tucked away in the presets.

If not, on the upside, if you can program this in for yourself, you've got a groove that will work with almost any slow or medium tempo jazz tunes or standards.

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#2025807 - 02/02/13 09:55 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dire tonic]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: dire tonic
you have a collection of different ride cymbals on the notes D#2 and B2, the best would probably be from the analog set.


Well, you apparently know more about my instrument than I do.

I have gone through the entire manual and I see no mention of anything like that.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2025828 - 02/02/13 10:37 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
dire tonic Offline
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- drum sound mapping list, p124 of the online pdf - I don't know if it's the definitive pdf or if there are inconsistencies.

I prefer to use the pdf version always to do a rapid search for keywords, in this case 'ride' and 'hhc' (closed hi-hat)

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#2025895 - 02/02/13 12:43 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
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dmd, Im not around my es7 at the moment but I have used the rhythm section on the es7 while playing Misty and it sounded nice to me.I can,t remember which rhytym I used but Im sure that there are a few different one,s that will work. Sometimes I take a faster rhythm and cut the speed in half. I think I played Misty around tempo 68 or 70. When I play using the rhythm section I use the base and drums and put in my own left hand piano parts. I have a roland gx piano with the nx piano card and also the nord ex stage and I like the kawai better than both of thoes. Its a great sounding piano at a lower price.

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#2025925 - 02/02/13 02:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: pianomike]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: pianomike
dmd, Im not around my es7 at the moment but I have used the rhythm section on the es7 while playing Misty and it sounded nice to me.I can,t remember which rhytym I used but Im sure that there are a few different one,s that will work. Sometimes I take a faster rhythm and cut the speed in half. I think I played Misty around tempo 68 or 70. When I play using the rhythm section I use the base and drums and put in my own left hand piano parts. I have a roland gx piano with the nx piano card and also the nord ex stage and I like the kawai better than both of thoes. Its a great sounding piano at a lower price.


I probably am just not experienced enough at playing with those accompaniments. I have been trying some of them now and I have found one that would seem to work (Fast4beat). I dialed it down a bit.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2025964 - 02/02/13 04:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
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dmd, I was just playing Misty with the es7 rhythm sections , I used ride beat #58 at tempo 64 and then jazz rock , 8 beat 3 , ballad 2 and 3 they all work just decide which rhythym you like the best, there are probably alot more that will work I just didn,t go through all the rhythms. I see you Live in Pa. , I live in Cecil county Maryland.

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#2025978 - 02/02/13 05:16 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: pianomike]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: pianomike
dmd, I was just playing Misty with the es7 rhythm sections , I used ride beat #58 at tempo 64 and then jazz rock , 8 beat 3 , ballad 2 and 3 they all work just decide which rhythym you like the best, there are probably alot more that will work I just didn,t go through all the rhythms. I see you Live in Pa. , I live in Cecil county Maryland.


Thanks, Mike. I will check those out.

Just knowing that someone else thinks they work will help me work with them.
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2026873 - 02/04/13 12:18 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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#2031226 - 02/11/13 03:12 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Hi mates, today I tried to test some new sounds and uploaded four songs: https://soundcloud.com/mabraman

Settings:
-Concert Grand1/Mellow Grand1 layered 2:8.
-String res. 10.
-Mech. noises off.
-Touch normal.
-Voicing Mellow2.
-Layer dinamics 7.
-Reverb room D2/T2.
-Rec. gain +5db and then +13db via Audacity.
-EQ: honestly, I think it was off but won't bet one of my arms on it wink. I've been playing with midcut for a while (and the hiss has almost gone!!) and then with some bass gain.Who knows wich one I recorded. blush

I think this layering is a little strange, but interesting. The bass is sometimes muddy, isn't it? And maybe the mids sound metallic. The recorded sound is not exactly what you hear when playing, it lacks some brilliance and I'm not sure the decay is well captured, too.
Please try to ignore my faults (it's been a loooooong afternoon playing and tweaking) and just listen to the sound, any comments will be appreciated.
By the way, the recording of the Bach's one failed and I uploaded on purpose for you to listen to it. It´s the second time it happens. I guess it's normal, just a corrupted file. Has anyone ever experienced the same issue?
And another question: what is Layer Dinamics for? I can't hear any difference when I change the settings.

Thank you in advance,

Isra.


Edited by mabraman (02/11/13 03:15 PM)
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#2031233 - 02/11/13 03:22 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Temperament Offline
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South "yugoslawic" dance is a piano piece from Microcosmos Book 2 by Bela Bartok (not Dvorak).

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#2031263 - 02/11/13 04:04 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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True! I'll edit it. Thanks.
...and about the sound?
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#2033060 - 02/14/13 01:56 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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#2035654 - 02/19/13 04:13 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
mabraman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Very enthusiastic.Talks like a salesman.

Last night I played with some sounds and made comparisons between them, in order to determine which one is more useful for different kinds of music. I like the layered sounds of CG1/MG1 and CG2/MG2 more each time, though I still haven't been able to get a perfect setting.I tend to charge the weight on the mellow side (8 to 2). Everything that you touch has pros and cons. At least, I realized that some -1/-2b in the mid range, along with a little more bass,works fine for me. Layer Dynamics set to low value.
What I don't know, and here I'm asking for some help, is what to do with:
- Studio Grands. I find them very strange, whining to say something. Has anybody found a good setting for them?
-And Rock piano...I just don't understand that sound, though I figure it must be useful cutting throug a pop mix or something. By itself, it sounds like a toy to me.
What I do with these two sounds is: when I get tired of Concert Grand or whatever, I play with Rock or Studio for a while and then go back to the main AP sound, and...wow! I love it! laugh


-Mellow Grands : If I was able to make them sound a little clearer and less boomy, these would be my favourite APs (here it is why I layer them with CG). They are so warm! And choosing bright2 voicing you can hear those nice strings.

And finally, reverb. Yesterday something strange happened: I liked small hall along with bright voicing and a confident touch. Perhaps I'm understanding something, after two months of work.

...out of the box, they say... crazy




Edited by mabraman (02/19/13 04:16 AM)
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#2035724 - 02/19/13 08:59 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mabraman
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Very enthusiastic.Talks like a salesman.

Last night I played with some sounds and made comparisons between them, in order to determine which one is more useful for different kinds of music. I like the layered sounds of CG1/MG1 and CG2/MG2 more each time, though I still haven't been able to get a perfect setting.I tend to charge the weight on the mellow side (8 to 2). Everything that you touch has pros and cons. At least, I realized that some -1/-2b in the mid range, along with a little more bass,works fine for me. Layer Dynamics set to low value.
What I don't know, and here I'm asking for some help, is what to do with:
- Studio Grands. I find them very strange, whining to say something. Has anybody found a good setting for them?
-And Rock piano...I just don't understand that sound, though I figure it must be useful cutting throug a pop mix or something. By itself, it sounds like a toy to me.
What I do with these two sounds is: when I get tired of Concert Grand or whatever, I play with Rock or Studio for a while and then go back to the main AP sound, and...wow! I love it! laugh


-Mellow Grands : If I was able to make them sound a little clearer and less boomy, these would be my favourite APs (here it is why I layer them with CG). They are so warm! And choosing bright2 voicing you can hear those nice strings.

And finally, reverb. Yesterday something strange happened: I liked small hall along with bright voicing and a confident touch. Perhaps I'm understanding something, after two months of work.

...out of the box, they say... crazy




I usually just use Concert Grand all of the time but your posting has me looking into some of these options. Thank You for bring this topic up.

BTW ... I am unfamiliar with the phrase
Quote:
some -1/-2b in the mid range
. Could you explain please ?
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2036037 - 02/19/13 06:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Yes, I wrote it bad. I meant lowering mid low/mid high at -2db. I do it with every AP sound, 'cause my ears can't stand the default settings and they start ringing as soon as I play forte.
But every little change in a frequency, though producing a better or more pleasant overall feeling, affects to individual notes that begin to sound weird.I'm closer to my sound, but damm, still can't get it!
About layering: I find that equally layered pianos don't work (weird, not reallistic sound), so I set them at 7:3 or 8:2. Do you think the same?

Cheers.
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#2036046 - 02/19/13 06:36 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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I have been working with sound options (blending, layering, EQing, etc ...) for a few years, now, and have found that there may not be anything that qualifies as a "perfect" sound. They are all just different. Even the ones I think are great begin to fade from favor after awhile. Other forum members have found the same thing. That is why you will see various posters indicating they would like to hear how someone feels about their "perfect sound" after another month or more. The way we feel about sounds seem to vary with time.

Right now, I am very pleased with almost any sound I get with most of my blendings or just straight ES7 Concert Grand sound. That may be a testament to my sound equipment and/or the sound generated by the ES7. That may not last, but for now it is very enjoyable.


Edited by dmd (02/21/13 06:06 PM)
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Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2037358 - 02/22/13 07:02 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Check out this clip of the ES7 in a live audience performance at some club. You cant really see the piano but clearly hear it. Not bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-iXI2nZcgc
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#2037370 - 02/22/13 07:53 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Offline
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Blimey Mark, is that you? Playing the piano I mean . . . Sounds good, man. And the lady kept her kit on . . ! What can ya say? A good time was had by all . . .
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#2041162 - 03/01/13 03:50 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
I've noticed that, when recording via USB stick and then using Audacity to amplify the track, there is only one waveform displayed (mono?)when I record in wav. format, but two (stereo) when I do it in MP3.

Does it mean that WAV recordings are mono (in order to reduce the file size?), or is there anything I've missed?

Thanks.


Edited by mabraman (03/01/13 03:56 AM)
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#2041163 - 03/01/13 04:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
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Hmmm...that dooesn't sound right. The USB audio recorder should create stereo files for both WAV and MP3 formats.

How are you opening the WAV file in Audacity?
What happens if you open the file properties for the file (using Windows Explorer or Finder on a Mac)?

Cheers,
James
x
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#2041165 - 03/01/13 04:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Loc: Valencia, Spain
Hi James, I just create a new project. Though there's only one waveform displayed on the screen, I can see two channels going at different sound levels on the soundbar. File properties indicate it's stereo, thanks. (some of these days I won't be a technodonkey anymore).
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#2051194 - 03/20/13 05:26 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
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Re experimenting with different sounds: I too have tried all sorts of combinations. FWIW, I have settled (for now at least) with EQ Low -1, Mid low 0, Mid high +1, High +2; Mellow1, normal touch curve, damper res 10, damper noise 5, string res 10, key off effect 5, fallback noise 5, hammer delay 3, equal (piano) temp, wide stretch. Works well in a room about 12 feet by 12 feet with composers between Bach and Brahms. When I come to Rachmaninov I need to wheel out the concert grand.

My experience with blending mellow and concert grand - to tone down the concert brightness and add a bit of bite to the mellow - was disappointing in that somehow I can hear the two voices and it ends up sounding artificial.

The ES7 is a great piano. Note the word "piano", not "digital piano". I'm still amazed that I can play Bach without the sustain and find it satisfying. Kawai are getting there with capturing the resonance of an acoustic piano.

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#2051213 - 03/20/13 07:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
mabraman Offline
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Originally Posted By: sandalholme


My experience with blending mellow and concert grand - to tone down the concert brightness and add a bit of bite to the mellow - was disappointing in that somehow I can hear the two voices and it ends up sounding artificial.

The ES7 is a great piano. Note the word "piano", not "digital piano". I'm still amazed that I can play Bach without the sustain and find it satisfying. Kawai are getting there with capturing the resonance of an acoustic piano.


When I blend two pianos I always have to make some changes on the Layer Dynamics (Key Settings menu) and Layer Volume.
The first is for avoiding what you pointed before (2 pianos sounding toghether) and getting just a little of the character from the layered one, but keeping the tone of the main one at the forefront.
And as a said some posts before, equal blends don't work. It has to be 2:8 or 3:7 maximum, other way it sounds awfully (unless I'm missing something, as usual smile ).

Now, a question for you, ES7 owners: anyone hearing middle E natural (Concert Grand 1) sounding waaay more metallic than the other notes, as it should be if the attack was forte?
Not a big problem, but sounds ugly enough to make me prefer Mellow Grand almost always. It doesn't happen there.
I was wondering if it's normal, or there is something that could be fixed via update. It's just one note.

Saludos.


Edited by mabraman (03/20/13 07:21 AM)
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Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
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#2051327 - 03/20/13 12:11 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mabraman
Now, a question for you, ES7 owners: anyone hearing middle E natural (Concert Grand 1) sounding waaay more metallic than the other notes, as it should be if the attack was forte?
Not a big problem, but sounds ugly enough to make me prefer Mellow Grand almost always. It doesn't happen there.
I was wondering if it's normal, or there is something that could be fixed via update. It's just one note.



Yes, I hear the same exact thing.

Actually, I do not seem to notice it all of the time but most of the time.

Like you said, it is not a biggie but it definitely is there.
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Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2051745 - 03/21/13 04:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Yep, and in the Studio Grand voice, this happens on middle F, but it's less noticeable due to the overall twangy sound, which disguises it.
This is the reason why I blend mellow with concert grand, keeping mellow at the forefront. Central scale sounds pretty better on the mellows. But who cares, it's just the one you play the most!
IMO, there are three possible explanations for that:
-A deaf person is checking the sound, or
-A deaf person was tunning the Grand, or
-It's all about realism, to avoid a sterile sound wink
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#2052274 - 03/22/13 05:17 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Last night I played until 1:30 and made some (unconclusive) comparissons between different AP EQ and blends I had already done: Concert "the twangy E" Grand 1; CG1/MellowG1 (layered 8:2 and then 2:8, and changing layer dynamics while moving from one to the other); CG2/MG2; MG1 alone.
Headphones on. String ress. up to 9, damper ress. up to 7.

Obviously, the clearest sound is CG1, but it lacks some sweetness in the central octave, no matter the voicing you choose. And, Jesus, that middle E kills me!
There goes the first blend, which I like a lot (CG1/MG1) but is a little confusing when the sustain is pressed or at forte passages (some weird rings and overtones that were already mentioned long before on this thread). Perhaps less string and damper ressonance would do the job, here. Playing without the pedal, highest string values are almost perfect, though.
MG1: the later into the night, the better it sounds. Just some less bass and bright1 voicing to avoid muddy chords.
CG2/MG2: mmmmmmmmm...Sweet and warm and dirty as can be, but again confusing. I'd swear it's from the previous sound generation (based in my ears). Dynamics are not that good, or detailed, overall volume is lower. I need to work more on this one!
If I have some time to kill this weekend, I threaten to perpetrate some recordings of the same piece on these different sounds.
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#2052293 - 03/22/13 06:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Hi dmd and mabraman, Ive been reading your past few posts. I don't believe I am experiencing any metallic or twangy sound from middle E or F on my ES7. In fact it's very pleasing and seems right on especially in GC1. I am listening with my Sennheiser HD380PRO through Mackie 402VLZ3 Mixer.

However, Not sure if any of this is related: Im on my third ES7. Yes third, please read:
The first ES7 I bought had to be returned immediately because middle E was dead. The key mechanics worked fine just no sound. Dealer swapped it out instantly. My second ES7 had several sound issues that seemed in line with what you are discussing. Seemed like it sounded great with headphones I and was enjoying it immensely, however I ended up returning it again for three reasons; metallic "tinny" sounds on some keys via on board speakers - not too bad but noticable, distortion from left speaker area even at mid volume - drove me crazy, and eventually sustain stopped working even with a second new pedal - that's when i figured I had another lemon. So, brought it back again. Dealer was amazingly accommodating and gave me a THIRD ES7 in the box without hesitation - great dealer! This last ES7 I had for a month and it seems flawless and quite different from the past two. The on board speakers seem much better than the past two; very clear, better tone, handles low end nicely even near full volume - almost can keep up with a CP300... I said almost. But like a CP300 you can feel the vibration/resonance in your fingers when playing. The sound via headphones even seems much clearer and powerful pushing the headphones even without the Mackie. So, maybe this last ES7 was off a different production run than the other two, a question for Kawai James perhaps.

Nevertheless, maybe my middle E and F might sound the same as yours and my ears are not picking up on it. So, if you want me to post some sounds to compare let me know and I can try to tap a few keys that you have in question. Im new at this (recording/posting) so please be patient if needed.


Edited by Marko in Boston (03/22/13 07:10 AM)
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#2052301 - 03/22/13 06:55 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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Thanks for the info, Marco, and good luck with your third one (wow).
Mine works well so far, though not perfectly if I think of some sounds. Speakers, as I said, seem like a good radio-casette from the 80s' to me. And there are some weird ressonances via speakers (I guess they are phasey sounds coming from the board), but this will be another chapter to write, at the risk of James calling me Mabra-moan wink .
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#2052303 - 03/22/13 06:59 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Ha! I think James has earned the right to goof on all of us for all the whining we do.
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#2052312 - 03/22/13 07:29 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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True, but we (specially you!) have all the right to complain. Our money is never deffective, is it?

By the way, what I hear is:

-CG1 : middle E natural (central scale) sounds more metallic than expected when playing mezzoforte, it has a twangy tone that might be desirable if ff played, but this is not the case. Adjacent notes sound fine, and so the other 87 as far as I know.
-Studio Grand 1: same, but for the central F and F#, now. As the whole tone of it is quite twangy (at default values) it isn't so evident, but it's there.
-Mellows: it doesn't happen, here, I can't recall any key sounding unbalanced in tone or volume all across the keybed.

And finally, as other mentioned earlier in this thread, there's an overall ringy feeling when you go at it full swing. My guess is, blame it on PHI sympathetic ressonance algorithms (so turning ressonances down should work).
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#2052316 - 03/22/13 07:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Have you messed around with temperament key setting for E and F just to see if tweaking it makes any difference.

Speaking of temperament, I actually like the Werkmeister preset. Has an honest genuine sound about it. I go to it often.
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#2052332 - 03/22/13 08:23 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
mabraman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Have you messed around with temperament key setting for E and F just to see if tweaking it makes any difference.

Speaking of temperament, I actually like the Werkmeister preset. Has an honest genuine sound about it. I go to it often.


I entered the menu once, just to see if it worked smile
But thanks for your advice, I'll give it a try tonight.

With regards to wide stretch, mentioned some posts above, I find it interesting, perhaps a little too cold, but haven't played very much with it.
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#2052404 - 03/22/13 11:13 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
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Hi marbraman, The E and F on my es7 sound fine,I know the note,s seemed more ringy and muddier befor I did the up grade on my foot pedal. I forget wat its called but is updated fom a 10 to a 12. Now all the notes on my piano are nice and clean sounding.

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#2052417 - 03/22/13 11:46 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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#2052527 - 03/22/13 02:49 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
pianomike Offline
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Thanks Marko, I updated to v1.13 , I made a mistake and said 12,actually I had some one else update it for me since Im a little slow with computers. I still think this is one of the most natural sounding piano,s out there.

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#2052535 - 03/22/13 03:05 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
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It's not about an update, as I had already done so months ago. But thanks anyway.
And yes, it sounds well. I have just come from my music school, where I have practiced for an hour on an upright (guess the make?) which sounds way worse than ES7 and has sticky keys. Now, mine seems a Bossendorfer.
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#2053083 - 03/23/13 06:20 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Offline
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Do Yamaha do upgrades for their digitals?
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#2053106 - 03/23/13 07:07 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: peterws]
spanishbuddha Online   content
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Originally Posted By: peterws
Do Yamaha do upgrades for their digitals?

It's OT, but yes.

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#2053354 - 03/24/13 09:14 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
cotte Offline
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So, it seems that most of us agree on going with the mellow piano and a bright voicing other than using the concert grand with a mellow voice...

I used the CG sound for a couple months now and started toying with the mellow piano a week ago... now whenever I go to the CG patch sounds really cold to me.

I have tried layering 2 pianos but did not like the output.

Regarding some sound "unevenness" on certain keys... I feel that the whole octave or so around F2 to F3 sounds a bit dry compared to the rest of the "zones" especially on concert grand. I take it as part of the "character" of this particular Digital.

I love this piano.
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#2082572 - 05/14/13 05:23 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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#2084102 - 05/17/13 10:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
EtwasBewegter Offline
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Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Hi, Kawai users! Excuse me for being a little bit off topic. I am in search of a good digital piano mostly for playing classical piano music and Kawai ES7 is at the top of my preference list. Additional pedals, solid piano stand and music stand for ES7 are also needed. So the total price here will be close to the price of Kawai CN 34. My question - how Es7 is compared to CN 34 in terms of piano sound and touch and is it really worth going for a portable es 7 at a price of full CN 34? Thank you!

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#2084131 - 05/17/13 11:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: EtwasBewegter]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Originally Posted By: EtwasBewegter
Hi, Kawai users! Excuse me for being a little bit off topic. I am in search of a good digital piano mostly for playing classical piano music and Kawai ES7 is at the top of my preference list. Additional pedals, solid piano stand and music stand for ES7 are also needed. So the total price here will be close to the price of Kawai CN 34. My question - how Es7 is compared to CN 34 in terms of piano sound and touch and is it really worth going for a portable es 7 at a price of full CN 34? Thank you!


Hi EtwasBewegter, Clink the link below. This thread might you decide which is best for you.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2009953/Kawai%20CN34%20versus%20ES7.html
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#2084693 - 05/18/13 11:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Nice EP demo on the ES7

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#2112241 - 07/03/13 02:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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ES7 Review by Keyboard magazine's editor Stephen Fortner:

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#2112244 - 07/03/13 03:00 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
justpin Offline
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Its an oddity that video...

Some as some places advertise the ES7 as haveing a wire type music stand, while others show it has a see through plastic music sheet stand

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#2112269 - 07/03/13 03:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
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My ES7 came with the wire type music stand, the see through music stand came with the 2 pedal instrument stand.

Edit: the 3 pedal instrument stand


Edited by sandalholme (07/03/13 03:52 PM)

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#2114754 - 07/08/13 04:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
EtwasBewegter Offline
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Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Hi! I have followed a good advice from this forum and now I am a happy owner of ES 7 ! My question is about sustain pedal. When leaving sound with pedal pressed ,it loses volume and decays unnaturally fast- 9-10 seconds and absolute silence. The same effect on AP lasts twice as long. So the question- аre there any settings to improve this. I can`t find them in the manual and it is rather strange as there are so many other precise settings for different effects. Thank you!

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#2128894 - 08/06/13 11:14 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: EtwasBewegter]
sandalholme Online   content
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Rather than open a separate thread I thought I could use the ES7 thread. I think I know the answer, but just in case ....... Is it possible to have a default touch on the ES7 to say, Heavy? I know it can be adjusted within a particular piano configuration, but I would like to be able to set it to Heavy for use with a software piano without having to have Local Control On and using a particular ES7 piano - although I suppose turning the ES7's volume control right down is a work around.

Conversely, I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano. Playing is no problem but how to record? To explain: the heavy touch and the weighting which is right for me (reduced bass volume, heightened treble volume) complements the software piano very well.

If I could always have a heavy touch and have the options of just the software piano or the blend, plus recording both these configurations, I would be happy. At least this week!

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#2128896 - 08/06/13 11:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
gvfarns Offline
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Can you clarify a few things?

When you say you don't want local control on, am I to understand that you don't want to use the built-in functionality to modify velocity curves in your software piano, which is almost certainly significantly more flexible and powerful than the settings in the hardware? Is there a particular reason for that?

I would think that the ES7's settings for touch sensitivity apply to the MIDI as well, but I don't know from personal experience. Perhaps someone who owns one can chime in.

As for recording a blend of the ES7 tone and that of a software piano, I can think of a few possibilities but none are particularly convenient. One thing you could do is play the piece, saving the MIDI using the onboard USB functionality and record the audio of the ES7 using your line-in or whatever. Then you could render the MIDI offline using your software piano. Finally you could mix the two. Sounds like a hassle, but it's the first thing that comes to mind.

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#2128911 - 08/06/13 11:53 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
peterws Offline
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"Conversely, I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano. Playing is no problem but how to record?"

Your Piano voice and software voice will come out of different headphone sockets if you use headphones. One will exit the computer, the other will exit the piano. Get thee a "y" adapter to link `em. Audacity will do the rest, when the combined connection is fed into another computer . . . which you may or may not have.

I never thought o` that last bit. Sorry . . . crazy


Edited by peterws (08/06/13 11:54 AM)
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#2129004 - 08/06/13 03:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: gvfarns]
sandalholme Online   content
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Thanks for the responses. To clarify the local control point: the velocity curve in the s/w piano (True Keys, Italian Grand) isn't especially precise, in that it's a single curve that can be raised/lowered from the centre, so it primarily affects tone. The ES7, with its range from very light, light, normal, heavy, heavy+, offers a good range of alternative weights of touch. Using the ES7 alone, I prefer the normal setting, but with the Italian Grand - with or without blending the ES7 voice - a heavier touch feels better. It may be that changing the curve, sensitivity and dynamics in the Italian settings would produce the touch and sound I want, but it's a bit hit and miss. Maybe I need to experiment more. However, having adjusted the volume settings of the ES7 by knocking down the bass and upping the treble it improves the sound through the ES7 speakers - and it's still good through the domestic, relatively high end, system - and it also adds to the solidity of the Italian Grand sound, which is a bit thin to my ears. So blending the two does add quite a bit to the sound/my enjoyment. However, I would still like the option to have a heavier touch with local control off, as I should be able to record that via the usb in the ES7. (Currently a problem with usb recording which Kawai are looking into) Audacity could tidy up any shortcomings (to my ears) afterwards, but playing live, I prefer the mix.
Re recording: I have a 2nd pc in fact, but it's more than a bit dodgy. I am hoping that something clever can be done with a DAW. I have no experience of DAWS.

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#2129010 - 08/06/13 03:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
peterws Offline
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If I might be so bold - My software D4 (Pianoteq) sounds great, but feels different to playing my digital piano voice.

But so does an acoustic piano. . .a lot different, if the truth`s known. It feels like what I used to play before digitals were around; It may well be a good training ground for playing an actual piano . . .so you get the best o` both worlds.

One way of looking at it . .
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#2129026 - 08/06/13 04:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
gvfarns Offline
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Originally Posted By: sandalholme
the velocity curve in the s/w piano (True Keys, Italian Grand) isn't especially precise, in that it's a single curve that can be raised/lowered from the centre, so it primarily affects tone.


Seems like I heard someone else complain about the TrueKeys velocity curve. It's hard for me to imagine what you are describing. Are you saying the line remains straight and you can only move it up and down, or that it bows in and out? Either way, it shouldn't affect tone except inasmuch as it also affects velocity. That is, the velocity curve takes the input MIDI and maps it to a different level, which is what is used to compute the velocity of the note. That in turn determines both the loudness and color. That's the same thing the hardware velocity curve should do as well. What I don't know is whether the hardware curve affects the MIDI levels that go out of the piano or whether those bypass the "touch curve."


Edited by gvfarns (08/06/13 04:14 PM)

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#2129039 - 08/06/13 04:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: sandalholme
I also want to play and record a blend of software piano and an ES7 piano.


I run my software piano sound and my ES7 sound into a mixer and that mixer is attached to my computer and Audacity.

Works fine.
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Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2129280 - 08/07/13 03:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: gvfarns]
sandalholme Online   content
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Re velocity curve: the curve bows up and down - up, more volume, brighter tone, downwards the reverse, but, and it may be psychological, the ES7 touch control seems to work differently. It feels like the difference between the weight of touch of different APs: yes, you have to hit the notes harder to get the same volume on a heavy touch AP vs a light touch AP, but, in theory at least, if each AP was constructed identically apart from the action weight, tone should be essentially the same. As I say, it may be a psychological effect - there are many discussions on other forums on this site re the interaction between the sound heard and the touch needed on APs. All I know is that normal ES7 touch feels good to me for ES7 sounds, heavy touch feels better for the Italian sound. The Italian velocity curve is quite small and really small shifts affect volume/tone, so I leave it at neutral and have set sensitivity and dynamics, plus the general tone control, to get the sound that suits me.

Don, interested in the mixer method. How does the mixer feed into the computer? I have no audio input so that's not an option, but a digital feed via usb could work.

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#2129302 - 08/07/13 06:34 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
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Loc: Dorset, UK
Apologies for misleading you all. The ES7 does in fact hold the individual piano settings even when local control is off, so I can keep the touch and bass light/treble heavy settings etc. However, it doesn't resolve the recording issue: at present the usb recording produces absolutely zero when using the s/w piano, whether local control is on or off. Not sure if this is an escalation of my usb problem, which Kawai are investigating. Briefly, pops and drop outs at random, having tried 3 different memory sticks, when recording the ES7 native sounds. I have in the past recorded from the Pianoteq demo to the ES7 usb, so recording from a s/w piano worked then. Anyone got any thoughts why the Italian sound doesn't get picked up via usb?

I have just been playing around more with the Italian and becoming more pleased with it, although adding some ES7 input improves matters. It is unfortunate that the difference between the sound from the ES7 speakers and headphones is so different for the Italian. (Less so with ES7 sounds) However, there is no reason why I should not have one version of the Italian for public use and another for use with headphones. Next performance is the end of September, so I've got time.

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#2129365 - 08/07/13 10:58 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: sandalholme
Don, interested in the mixer method. How does the mixer feed into the computer?


My mixer has a USB audio output connector on it and I plug that into the computer via USB port. The cable for this came with the mixer, I think. When I bring up Audacity, I can set the input channel to that port. It is very intuitive and simple.



Edited by dmd (08/07/13 11:00 AM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2129565 - 08/07/13 08:08 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
I have in the past recorded from the Pianoteq demo to the ES7 usb, so recording from a s/w piano worked then. Anyone got any thoughts why the Italian sound doesn't get picked up via usb?


To clarify, the ES7 has two USB ports:

1) USB to Host: This is used to connect the instrument to a computer in order to send/receive MIDI data, offering a more convenient alternative to the traditional MIDI IN/OUT cables.

2) USB to Device: This is used to load/save song data, settings, etc. and to play/record MP3, WAV, and SMF files.

Please note that it is not possible for the sound produced by your computer to be recorded by the ES7's 'USB to Device' port - regardless of the software used.

Some Kawai models (MP10, CA95) allow audio connected to the instrument's LINE-IN jacks to be mixed with the internal sound and recorded to an MP3/WAV file using the USB audio recorder, however the ES7 does not offer this functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2129697 - 08/08/13 04:13 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sandalholme Online   content
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Thank you for clarifying that James. Yesterday I thought I had cracked it: recording to internal memory and then transferring the blended sound to usb. Re-testing today, using s/w piano and slow strings and transferring this to usb - to WAV format - only the slow strings sound was copied.

*!**@*%!!!!!!

Thanks also Don for the info re a mixer. I have also an alternative method, using my old minidisc deck which has near-cd recording capabilities, but the deck will not last for ever and there's another step in converting the audio to digital - another little box I have - before final editing in Audacity. I was hoping to avoid having anything other than keyboard and computer to record s/w piano or a blend of s/w piano and ES7.

Ah well, back to the learning curve.

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#2134253 - 08/17/13 09:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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AMAC 2013 Kawai ES7 - Greg Coffin

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#2134300 - 08/17/13 10:45 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
AMAC 2013 Kawai ES7 - Greg Coffin




Do you have to have an "odd" hair style to lend credibility to your review ?

Or ... did he just get out of bed ?
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2134550 - 08/17/13 09:33 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for posting the video Marko!

Originally Posted By: dmd
Do you have to have an "odd" hair style to lend credibility to your review ?

Or ... did he just get out of bed ?


"Different strokes for different folks", man.



James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2200667 - 12/20/13 01:22 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
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I am reviving this thread because I just found a sound that is particularly pleasing to me and thought others might benefit from the same concept.

Even though I have fairly high quality powered monitors, I have not been completely satisfied with the sound I get through them. Nothing I can really put my finger on but the sound always seems to need and little extra bite here and there that is missing. So, usually blend the sound of my ES7 built-in speakers with that sound.

Just lately, I thought I would try taking the sound I get through my mixer and run it back through my ES7 and ... VIOLA !!!! ... it sounds very good.

So, now I am running my ES7 into my mixer via my lineouts and then running it back into my ES7 via the stereo line-in port and I leave my volume completely off on my ES7 so I am getting no native ES7 sound at all through my ES7 speakers.

It sounds pretty good.

Will it last ? Who knows.

But, for now ... it is very nice.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2200677 - 12/20/13 01:55 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
KarelG Offline
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Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: dmd
I am reviving this thread because I just found a sound that is particularly pleasing to me and thought others might benefit from the same concept.

Even though I have fairly high quality powered monitors, I have not been completely satisfied with the sound I get through them. Nothing I can really put my finger on but the sound always seems to need and little extra bite here and there that is missing. So, usually blend the sound of my ES7 built-in speakers with that sound.

Just lately, I thought I would try taking the sound I get through my mixer and run it back through my ES7 and ... VIOLA !!!! ... it sounds very good.

So, now I am running my ES7 into my mixer via my lineouts and then running it back into my ES7 via the stereo line-in port and I leave my volume completely off on my ES7 so I am getting no native ES7 sound at all through my ES7 speakers.

It sounds pretty good.

Will it last ? Who knows.

But, for now ... it is very nice.


Hi Don,
your post looks very interesting but also very confusing for me. Could you be so kind and explain me a little bit more details? I just got that ES7 produces piano sound and you send it to your mixer using line-outs. I assume this is separate hardware box, does it also provide its own amplifier? Then you send signal from the mixer back into the ES7 line-in. Now major confusion starts, you set volume on ES7 off, which means probably it's own amplifier is off too and later you write that you don't get any "native" ES7 sound from ES7 speakers. So, do you get any sound from ES-built in speakers or not? If not, then why you do connect mixer into ES7 line-in at all? Also what exactly is producing the sound (what speakers exactly, ES7's or your monitors'). What amplifier exactly is used in the chain? (again ES7's or mixer's)
Sorry for asking, I'm just about to purchase ES7 next year when it becomes available here so I'm curious if you for example find ES7's pre-amplifier or even amplifier a little bit on the weak side hence my exact question what's connected to what...
Thanks!
Karel
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#2200681 - 12/20/13 02:11 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: KarelG]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: KarelG
Hi Don,
your post looks very interesting but also very confusing for me.


Sorry 'bout that.


Let me be more detailed ...


I hook into my mixer from the ES7 via lineouts (left and right).
The mixer has a volume control on it so I can raise or lower the volume of the signal that gets sent back out. The mixer also allows me to filter out portions (highs or lows) of the sound to my liking.

Then I run that sound back out of the mixer and into my ES7 via the audio In (Stereo) plug.

It then is heard through the speakers on the ES7. That is pretty much it.

I mentioned the part about lowering the volume control on the ES7 because that is what determines the volume of native ES7 sound that gets sent to the speaker system. I do not want any of that sound, so I set the volume to zero. That way, the only sound going out the ES7 speakers is the sound from the mixer.

Still probably a little confusing but after you get you ES7 it might make more sense to you.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2200815 - 12/21/13 04:27 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Hookxs Offline
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Registered: 01/02/13
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Let me see if I have this straight:

1) volume control on ES7 does not affect valume of line-in
2) amplifier/eq you have outside ES7 is somehow better than what is inside ES7
3) you don't use your monitors anymore

Is that correct?. 2) is interesting because people often say that whatever they plug to line-in of their DP sounds worse through DP's speakers (than headphones, other speakers), because it bypasses the internal EQ, which is fine-tuned to deal with the internal speakers' characteristics. What you observe is exactly the opposite.

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#2200871 - 12/21/13 07:33 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Hookxs]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Hookxs
Let me see if I have this straight:

1) volume control on ES7 does not affect valume of line-in
2) amplifier/eq you have outside ES7 is somehow better than what is inside ES7
3) you don't use your monitors anymore

Is that correct?. 2) is interesting because people often say that whatever they plug to line-in of their DP sounds worse through DP's speakers (than headphones, other speakers), because it bypasses the internal EQ, which is fine-tuned to deal with the internal speakers' characteristics. What you observe is exactly the opposite.


Right on all counts.

Weird isn't it ?

And more good news ... the sound I hear through my phones connected to the mixer is the same sound I hear through the air via my ES7 speakers. It doesn't get any better than that.

I also have the option of using a software piano sound (via midi connection) running back through my mixer and out through my ES7 speakers. Those sounds, however, are not as pristine as the natural ES7 Concert Grand sound I am getting now.

However, it has also been my experience that the sound I "love" today may not stay in that category forever. But for right now, it is my go-to setup.

Go figure ...
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2200886 - 12/21/13 08:32 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Marko in Boston Offline
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@Don

I just tried your setup this morning via my 802-VLZ3. Wow, sounds so good via internal speakers. Great suggestion! So easy too -not sure why I haven't tried this before. Just have to be a little careful with mixer - don't want to overload speakers. Also, agree with you 100% when you say "....it has also been my experience that the sound I "love" today may not stay in that category forever" Im always making adjustments with the near endless options on the ES7. Keeps it fun and interesting.

Thanks, Marko
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2200897 - 12/21/13 09:37 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Marko in Boston]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
@Don

I just tried your setup this morning via my 802-VLZ3. Wow, sounds so good via internal speakers. Great suggestion!


That is good to hear.

I sometimes get the sense that what I like is somehow not normal. LOL ...
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2200951 - 12/21/13 11:50 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: dmd

I sometimes get the sense that what I like is somehow not normal. LOL ...


Well, by looking at your current system it seems like you can easily step outside of normal! Nevertheless, I try to follow your posts and find you to be very insightful - whether posts are normal or not is to be determined wink
_________________________
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#2201015 - 12/21/13 03:12 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: dmd]
KarelG Offline
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Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: dmd

[...]
I mentioned the part about lowering the volume control on the ES7 because that is what determines the volume of native ES7 sound that gets sent to the speaker system. I do not want any of that sound, so I set the volume to zero. That way, the only sound going out the ES7 speakers is the sound from the mixer.
[...]

Ah! Now I got it, that means that ES7 does two things at once:
- it send signal both to linouts and to internal amplifier + speakers
- it receives signal from line-in and mix it with internal signal and sent it to either final amplifier and speakers or just to the speakers.
So basically by turning volume down you do exactly what you like, i.e. hearing sound produced by your external mixer/amplifier.
So good that you enjoy builtin sounds (concert grand) again!
Thanks for clarification!
Karel
_________________________
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#2201061 - 12/21/13 04:55 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Hookxs Offline
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So what would be the conclusion to draw from your findings - that ES7 has good speakers but less good amplifier/EQ?

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#2201071 - 12/21/13 05:29 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Hookxs]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Hookxs
So what would be the conclusion to draw from your findings - that ES7 has good speakers but less good amplifier/EQ?


I would say it says nothing about amplifier. The only reason amplifier was even mentioned was because I turned it down to eliminate the native ES7 sound being directed to the built-in speakers.

The mixer certainly has more possibilities for modifying the sound than does the ES7. At least, that has been my experience.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2201106 - 12/21/13 06:56 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Hookxs Offline
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Loc: Czech Republic
I thought that maybe since both you and Marko bypassed the internal amplifier and used an external one (both of you different), it might mean that the internal amp/eq combo is to blame. But you are right that this says nothing about the amp alone.

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#2201120 - 12/21/13 07:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Hookxs]
dmd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Hookxs
I thought that maybe since both you and Marko bypassed the internal amplifier and used an external one (both of you different), it might mean that the internal amp/eq combo is to blame. But you are right that this says nothing about the amp alone.


I might add, I think it says volumes (pun intended) about the speakers on the ES7. They are very good.

Of course, another element to all of this is the fact that the sound is coming out of the top of the digital piano instead of wherever one might set the external speakers. There is something more pleasing to having the sound coming right from the instrument you are playing. At least, that is how I feel.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2203905 - 12/28/13 08:39 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
TubularBills Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 9
Loc: France
Hi! Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the preset chords sequences in the rhythm section of the ES7? So as to get the exact chords progression of the tunes I'm working on. I cant find exactly what I need there. One could suggest I should play or record the chords with my left hand but I'd like to practice my right hand without being disturbed. And I'm not good enough to record it without making any mistake. So basically, is it possible to edit / create new chords progression by choosing them from a list, or even by having them recognized if played on the keyboard one after the other - like one would do in Band in a box for instance?
Thanks!

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#2204131 - 12/28/13 05:12 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: TubularBills]
slowtraveler Offline
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Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: TubularBills
...is it possible to edit / create new chords progression by choosing them from a list, or even by having them recognized if played on the keyboard one after the other - like one would do in Band in a box for instance?


I believe the preset chord sequences are fixed and cannot be edited, but you can record a full backing accompaniment (with chord sequences of your choice, recognized by the ES7 in a manner similar to Band-In-A-Box) into the song recorder. Then, you can play back the recorded accompaniment as a backing track while you practice.

The steps for this are pretty well explained in the ES7 manual. Check out the sections headed Rhythm Section Basic Operation and Song Recorder, especially pages 37 and 50 (of the English-language version, that is.)

Cheers,

B.

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#2204396 - 12/29/13 09:17 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, slowtraveler is correct.

The ES7's song recorder allows two tracks to be recorded separately, so record the first track with the rhythm section, changing chords and adding fill-ins etc. Then you play along with the left hand (or full keyboard) during playback.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2229964 - 02/11/14 08:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
MrWhipple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Near NYC, US
James,

I have a couple of questions and I'm unclear if they have been answered here. I am looking to use the ES7 as a controller (with another controller with Tonewheels, faders, etc). My questions are:

1) Is there a way to record the sounds of the ES7 directly into the computer via the USB, rather than switching over to analog and back again through the 1/4" cables? I understand I could use my onboard Piano samples if there also, but I would love to take advantage of the Kawai sound at it's best.

2)Do the triple sensors help the midi articulation on the DAW? I'm using Logic X, with Kontact, Omnisphere, and Trillian, if that adds any info for you.

I'm thinking that I can as a last resort import the sounds from the USB stick, and then fiddle around with sync settings, but I would like to avoid that if I could. Thanks in advance anyone if you've got any other workarounds.

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#2230007 - 02/11/14 11:01 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello MrWhippie,

To answer your queries:

1. No, I'm afraid it is not possible to record the ES7's audio directly into your computer via USB. However, as you note, it is possible to record to a USB memory device, then copy the WAV/MP3 file onto your computer.

2. The triple sensor keyboard action will definitely help with articulation, especially in passages that have fast repeating notes. This is because the keyboard is able to send consecutive note-on information independently of the note-off information.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x

ps. I was a big fan of your ice cream in my youth, by the way... wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2230021 - 02/11/14 11:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
pwl Online   content
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Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 198
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hello MrWhippie,
ps. I was a big fan of your ice cream in my youth, by the way... wink

James, he's MrWhipple - with an "L" - of toilet paper fame. Both Mr. Whipple and Mr. Whippie (Whippy) deal with soft, white stuff . . . and I hope I don't EVER confuse'em with each other!


Edited by pwl (02/11/14 11:42 PM)

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#2230041 - 02/12/14 12:02 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Lol, I need to get my eyes tested - I misread that last 'l' as an 'i'!

Or perhaps that was the sub-conscious mind of my inner child?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2230164 - 02/12/14 04:38 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
sandalholme Online   content
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My inner child also tends to see things that aren't there. Usually to do with food . My adult mind can run it a close second though.

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#2230308 - 02/12/14 11:58 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: sandalholme]
MrWhipple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Near NYC, US
Thanks James.

I'm about to purchase, and I suppose I can import. I've been away from some of the more tech aspects of time stretching in recent years, due to kids and the like, but I suppose it will come back to me. Your answers are much appreciated, and I was on the fence with the Roland FP-7F, but I can't get over the feeling of playing a real piano that I felt and heard when I was playing the Kawai. Upon reflection, it seems the articulation will be more crucial when playing to a software instrument, so I'm glad you straightened that out. I'm stoked to see what it does with some of the picked string sounds.

As for MrWhippie, I had to google that. I'm from the northeast U.S., and we have Mr. Softee, which to my adult eyes seems to infer some sort of erectile dysfunction, so you can imagine where I went with your Ice Cream Man. Never mind why I chose some curmudgeonly storekeeper who is closeted in his fetish for soft toilet tissue. I've never personally been closeted about comfort in my own life. In fact I'm wearing a Snuggie right now, at the office. Is that wrong? TMI?

Well, if you'll excuse me, I've a meeting in the conference room to get to...something about no more casual Wednesdays, I think.

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#2230871 - 02/13/14 09:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Wouter D'hoye Offline
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Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 42
Loc: Belgium
Hi,

i'm considering the purchase of a Bose L1 compact system to use as monitor and maybe some day for stage perfomance. Now the bose system is mono and I read here an there that misxing a stero signal to a mono signal can have undesirable side effects. Now the ES7 appears to also have a mono output. How well would that work with a mono system like a Bose L1? Anubody hare who has experiance in this regards or can give me good advice?

thanks,

Wouter;

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#2231196 - 02/13/14 09:20 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wouter D'hoye, according to the Bose L1 product page it accepts a stereo input.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2231306 - 02/14/14 04:03 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Wouter D'hoye Offline
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Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 42
Loc: Belgium
Hi,

true. One can use a stereo signal as input. But the output of the system is mono so it appears. At least that's what i've found so far on other forums...

Wouter.

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#2236795 - 02/24/14 01:18 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
MrWhipple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Near NYC, US
James,

Just an update. I decided to go with the Kawai VPC-1 controller. I have to say I have played the ES7 and really enjoyed the sound and feel of it, but was unable to find a local place to play the VPC. It's enroute, but this entire search has made me a fan of Kawai instruments in general. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I had begun with my mind set on the FP-7f, so the journey has been full of surprises. I haven't gigged very frequently in recent years, so I decided to favor the studio. For the times I'll need to haul it along, I can only blame myself. (VPC-1 65 lbs- ES7 49lbs).

Whipple

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#2236984 - 02/24/14 07:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for the update MrWhipple!

Perhaps you could return to post some shots of your VPC1 setup once you receive it?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2242295 - 03/06/14 05:00 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
MrWhipple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Near NYC, US
James,

Haven't picked new monitors yet, need something a little smaller than the old Yamaha NS10Ms in this setup. I use this room to pay the bills as well. I'm using Logic X with some Kontact Pianos as well as Pianoteq, which I can't say I love. I love a murky piano for songwriting. I used to use an old east west sample that doesn't live up to this keyboards potential. I've played some old mournful Wurlitzers, but haven't found a sampled version to match. The piano feel is great, and I've worn myself out playing it. I've used it on a number of other instruments, and I feel I can really play around with the articulation on the plucked sounds with confidence, due to the great response of the keys. I bought a yoga mat and trimmed off a strip and that holds everything in place nicely.

Cheers,
Whipple
Not sure if this is actually showing up, all I see is a link. [img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/25230413@N05/12977596065/[/img]


Edited by MrWhipple (03/06/14 05:12 PM)

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#2242333 - 03/06/14 06:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Looks like a cool setup - thanks for posting the pic!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2246207 - 03/13/14 09:37 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
kawainoob Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/14
Posts: 2
I'm new here and new to digital pianos, and the es7 is my first smile

Forgive me if this is a stupid question coming from someone who should probably be able to figure it out for himself, but how do you all listen to mp3s on the es7. Mp3s straight from your computer, on a USB drive? It's detecting the USB, but no matter what, it can't seem to detect any mp3s. It doesn't even detect mp3s I recorded through the es7! Please help e, because it sounds like you all have it working.

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#2246216 - 03/13/14 09:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
kawainonob, welcome to the forum.

I don't have an ES7 in front of me, however playing back MP3/WAV files from USB should be relatively straight forward. Please try the following:

1. Copy some MP3 files to a USB memory stick.
2. Plug the USB stick into the ES7.
3. Press the [PLAY/STOP] button on the right side of the ES7's panel.
[A list of the files stored on the USB should be shown in the display]
4. Press the VALUE UP/DOWN buttons to move the selection cursor over the MP3 file you wish to play.
5. Press the [PLAY/STOP] button.

The selected MP3 file should start to playback.

I hope this helps. For more information, please refer to page 54 of the ES7 owner's manual.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2253870 - 03/29/14 10:15 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
sukebe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 1
Hiya, just a quick note from a newbie to the forums smile Proud owner of ES-7, bought after much comparison with other DP's I could find to try, including the MP6 and 10. Actually preferred the feel of the ES-7, to play. Bought to replace a fatar studio 90 that I'd had from new, some 15 years ago, and a chalk-cheese upgrade. Internal sounds better than expected, although I also use it running kontakt berlin grand, with a softer response curve helping dynamics for the way I play. Win7 64 PC, works perfectly as MIDI controller, as far as it goes. VPC not out when I bought it, so may have considered that then, but find I actually like having the speakers, not having to boot everything up to just play for a bit. Triple pedal may be an option at some point, although not sure if I can use it without the stand - have keyboard on desk, not interested in HM stand as difficult to integrate with everything else :), but pedals on floor are useful.
General thoughts - very positive, lovely feel to keyboard, and on-board sounds decent. Can hear some ringing on resonances, maybe looping on higher frequencies?, but not bad sounding. Wish list - would be nice if the sequencer buttons gave out MMC, so I could control sequencer from it. Just my tuppence worth, and saying hello to the forum.

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#2256814 - 04/04/14 03:56 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
kawainoob Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/14
Posts: 2
Sorry for the massive delay in response. Yes! It worked! Thank you kawai James.

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#2256882 - 04/04/14 06:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good to hear - thanks for the update!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2261145 - 04/13/14 05:47 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Hi guys, let's see if we can help somebody in Chile. He's referring problems with several keys not sounding at all, when played at the same time.
Besides, he's been told to have just a 3 month guaratee, which seems very strange.
I've given the usual tips to him (contacting the dealer, reset, updates, etc.), here in a spanish forum, but perhaps someone in pw knows more than me.
Here you are a video: http://youtu.be/UB7Xe2bgzE8
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2261205 - 04/13/14 07:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, the customer should contact the dealer and ask for the issue to be resolved. This approach is usually more effective than posting a video to YouTube.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2261370 - 04/14/14 03:28 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Sure, James, but I think that most of the people posting videos has previously tried other ways to solve their problem. Sometimes is a kind of warning to other potential customers, like the message in a bottle.
In this case, it seems that some store there in Chile is selling deffective instruments and giving strangely short periods of guarantee. Three months...very strange, given the two years I have here in Spain. I've already seen two posts in just one week about this issue, in two different forums, both naming this model and referring different failures.
Of course it has nothing to do with Kawai, but perhaps Kawai would like to be aware of this, just in case...
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2261380 - 04/14/14 03:51 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: mabraman
I think that most of the people posting videos has previously tried other ways to solve their problem.


While this may indeed be the case in this particular instance, the majority of time I actually believe the opposite to be true - that users often take to the internet to complain about an issue or post a video of the problem before contacting the retailer/manufacturer.

Originally Posted By: mabraman
In this case, it seems that some store there in Chile is selling deffective instruments and giving strangely short periods of guarantee.


I believe it is rather unlikely that any store would purposely sell defective instruments to customers. However, I have passed on the YouTube URL and other relevant information to my colleagues responsible for the South American market.

Originally Posted By: mabraman
I've already seen two posts in just one week about this issue...


Are they both from customers based in Chile?

Perhaps you can provide links to the two forum posts in question? While I cannot help directly, the information may be useful to my sales colleagues responsible for this market.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2261389 - 04/14/14 04:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2261397 - 04/14/14 04:38 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for the additional info - I have forwarded it to my colleagues.

Am I correct in assuming that 'Christian' and 'luchorh' are the same person?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2261403 - 04/14/14 05:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Kawai James]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Thank you for the additional info - I have forwarded it to my colleagues.

Am I correct in assuming that 'Christian' and 'luchorh' are the same person?

Cheers,
James
x

Why do you assume such thing? smile
They posted different messages in different forums on different dates, talking about different issues. Lucho is the familiar short name for Luis, nothing to do with Christian, so no clue here, too.
The one in Hispasonic is what I linked here, the other one is complaining about random loud bangs (velocity problems)among other things.Both complain about 3 month guarantee periods.
If you want I might translate those messages into english, so that you understand them properly.
Thanks in advance for your kind efforts.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2261414 - 04/14/14 05:36 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay, I see. I assumed that two Chilean ES7 customers reporting similar keyboard issues and both having previously owned Casio instruments suggested they could indeed be the same person.

Thank you for your offer to translate their posts, however it is not necessary. As I say, I have forwarded this information to my sales colleagues and am confident that they will work with the Chilean distributor to resolve the customer(s) issues.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2275593 - 05/13/14 05:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
KarelG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Czech Republic
Folks,
I'm a new owner of ES7. I like to piano and probably will like it even more when HM-4 stand arrive. Current X-stand is unstable which makes playing harder. Anyway, I'm experiencing some sound trouble, resonance which is too much emphasized which is IMHO even bug in soft. Please try on your setup:
- hold g below the middle c
- hit in fff staccato d which is one tone above middle c
the result is excess resonance of hold g IMHO. It is high spike which is growing even when source d is already dumped.
The bug is probably in algorithm, energy for resonance of one string should be transferred based on time the source string vibrates, hence in firm staccato time is nearly 0 so energy transferred should be also nearly 0. I hope I'm clear with my description of what I mean.
Well, silly to start the post with complain. I must admit that I've chosen ES7 over FP7f and Yamaha's 255. Generally speaking visually it's nice piece of DP which even tries to inspire to play (plastic DP produced by Rolland and Yamaha in the same price category are of completely different league IMHO) so kudos to Kawai for choosing quality materials for it. Keyboard is great -- especially in comparison with direct competitors already noted. I like playing on it and hope will like it even more when HM-4 arrives to get to proper position.
Generally speaking about buttons UI, it looks very logically oriented except of one thing. I can't understand why option 2 is above option 1, option 3 above 2 etc. So when you are on (1) and would like to go to (2) you need to press arrow pointing up instead of (IMHO!) logically more correct arrow pointing down. Otherwise as I said, it's good and user-friendly IMHO. I also especially like its minimalistic design in comparison with competitors and even different Kawai's (over-buttoned MP7/11 for example). ES7 looks really decent.
From sounds I most like CG1/MG1. I also like organs and harpsichord. Unfortunately even I like CG1/MG1 there are still some issues with the sound I'm trying to resolve by Eq (lower bass) etc. and the issue above.
Otherwise very nice piano for very good price IMHO.
The last note, what I especially like, living in flat, having neighbours and small grand and small upright at my disposal is that ES7 frees me from playing only from 9:00 - 18:00, and now I can play whenever I like. Great to live such freedom. :-)
Karel
_________________________
November 2011: piano entered into my life.

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#2275630 - 05/13/14 06:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1863
Loc: Pennsylvania
I am unable to experience what you describe.

So, if it is obvious to you ... then there might be a problem.

The best would be to record it and let us hear it somehow.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2275634 - 05/13/14 06:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: KarelG]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: KarelG
...resonance which is too much emphasized which is IMHO even bug in soft. Please try on your setup:
- hold g below the middle c
- hit in fff staccato d which is one tone above middle c
the result is excess resonance of hold g IMHO. It is high spike which is growing even when source d is already dumped.


Hmm. I tried to replicate this on my ES7, and here's what I found.

Using the default Concert Grand voice with all Virtual Technician settings in factory default (and current software v1.14 loaded), I held down G3 and struck D4 fff staccato. While G3 was depressed, the string resonance function caused D5 (the second overtone of G3, I believe) to sound and decay over a period of about five seconds.

I didn't think the resonance was too loud. Since the majority of the acoustic energy that causes sympatheic resonance would be transferred immediately after the initial attack of a note (decay of sustained piano notes being pretty fast), I think this is a reasonably accurate model of actual string resonance on a piano, and is working as expected.

Kind regards,

Ben

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#2275834 - 05/14/14 04:27 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Karel, you are right. Some people hear those things and other don't. It rings too much, sometimes. Just get used to it and dont be obsessed about its flaws, unlike me.:)
Have you tried to lower string and damper resonance?
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2275841 - 05/14/14 05:46 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
KarelG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Czech Republic
Folks, I need to apologize! Kudos to ES7 engineering team. I've just tested my 80 years old August Forster baby grand (couldn't do that yesterday during night :-)) and honestly speaking it behaves in the same way! Well, ES7 a little bit more over do this (especially when hearing it in headphones -- not so much over speakers), but still AF behaves in the same way. So well, surprising at least to me! ES7 corrects my wrong physical/acoustical expectation.

2 mabraman: if you switch off all string resonance and dumper resonance and off reverb it'll go away indeed.

2 Ben: I tested on Senhaisser HD598 and it was quite loud and un-natural. When doing the same using speakers it is much more natural and more in line with how AF behaves.

So task for me, compare what I get using HD598 and what I get using builtin speakers...

Interesting! Karel
_________________________
November 2011: piano entered into my life.

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#2275879 - 05/14/14 08:59 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: KarelG]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: KarelG
..ES7 a little bit more over do this (especially when hearing it in headphones -- not so much over speakers), but still AF behaves in the same way.


I agree the right amount of string resonance is a matter of taste, and the effect is definitely more apparent through headphones. As mabraman points out, you can use the Virtual Technician settings to adjust this to your liking.

Cheers,

B.

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#2279981 - 05/23/14 05:11 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Here I link some recordings (there are 3) to show what I've called "twangy" Studio Grand 1 sound, so many times.It's a work in progress and has many mistakes, what I want you to hear is how F4 and F4# are louder, and have different timbre to adjacent notes, played equally strong. In CG1 happens the same, with E4, as you can hear in other track there, voiced as Bright2.
Piece is in D minor, first two notes are F and A.

I must say I'm getting used to it. Studio Grand with dynamic voicing is more playable to me. Bright 2 voicing for mellows brings out beautiful string sounds. I still think it's best balanced of all three, though CG1 is actually clearer and has better dynamic range.
Well here's the link (please forgive my mistakes smile )
https://soundcloud.com/mabraman/vals-kendall-studiogrand-dynamic

Edit: 001 track is Mellow1+bright2. It has a bump, guess it's the stick and not the recorder that fails.It happens now and then.
settings for them all: small hall, 2/5
noises off
string and damper resonance, 8/10 (on the edge)


Edited by mabraman (05/23/14 06:21 AM)
Edit Reason: grammar
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2279985 - 05/23/14 06:18 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3609
Loc: Northern England.
Nowt wrong with that, man. Sounds good to me . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2279991 - 05/23/14 06:33 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
...So, Peter, don't you hear the louder F?
First note, then at 0:57 (played it three times), again at 1:31, etc. It's clearly different to my ears. Perhaps this is absolutely natural, I thought it is usually a matter of having that single note properly voiced (some needling, you know).
It's really hard to control.
In the track CG1, it's in sec.7-8, for instance. Not as loud as before, being a pass note.
In the track named 001 it doesn't happen at all, just E4b is slightly twangy, in this case I'd agree it's an acceptable deviation.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2280016 - 05/23/14 08:18 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11927
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: mabraman
...So, Peter, don't you hear the louder F?
First note, then at 0:57 (played it three times), again at 1:31, etc. It's clearly different to my ears. Perhaps this is absolutely natural, I thought it is usually a matter of having that single note properly voiced (some needling, you know).
It's really hard to control.
In the track CG1, it's in sec.7-8, for instance. Not as loud as before, being a pass note.
In the track named 001 it doesn't happen at all, just E4b is slightly twangy, in this case I'd agree it's an acceptable deviation.


I don't hear anything either. Sometimes when pedaling on an acoustic piano and replaying the same note already resonating it can be louder. Perhaps that is what the ES7 is mimicking and you are hearing? Does this happen when you play without the pedal? It could be a matter of changing your pedal a bit more often to soften it.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2280019 - 05/23/14 08:27 AM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 321
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Though it's true that I was overpedalling it has nothing to do with it, it's in the sample I guess. I choosed dynamic voicing because it softens mf a little, making the twangy StudioGrand sound less evident.
So it must be me, then!
Thanks both of you for listening and replaying.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2286310 - 06/05/14 07:53 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: Wouter D'hoye]
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: Wouter D'hoye
Hi,

i'm considering the purchase of a Bose L1 compact system to use as monitor and maybe some day for stage perfomance. Now the bose system is mono and I read here an there that misxing a stero signal to a mono signal can have undesirable side effects. Now the ES7 appears to also have a mono output. How well would that work with a mono system like a Bose L1? Anubody hare who has experiance in this regards or can give me good advice?


I use a Bose L1 system (the full one, with one bass module, not the compact) with a Kawai ES4, and I find it works great. When I was looking, I was able to set up my keyboard between the Bose Compact and the full L1 at a Guitar Center, and toggle back and forth... and I really liked the sound of the larger one better, though the compact system was quite decent. You're going to hear stereo from the piano's speakers no matter what. I use one 1/4 cord from the L/Mono output to go to the Bose, and the Kawai combines the two channels for stereo. You can also run stereo to the Bose, and it will combine them there; but the Bose is a mono source (which is really more appropriate for any venue larger than a small room anyway).

The larger ones can often be found used for around $1000. And you have four channels (two line level, two with mic preamps), so I've often run vocals and a fiddle through the same unit as well for St Pat's Day gigs and square dances.

Good luck!

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#2288892 - 06/12/14 12:05 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 28
On page 26, under effects, the ES7 manual states "Pressing the ^ and v VALUE buttons simultaneously alternates the speed of the rotary simulation between "Slow" and "Fast" effect modes."

I found that doing that changes the sound from whatever you're playing to Concert Grand.

After experimenting, it turns out that to alternate the rotary effect speed, you need to press both ^ and v MENU buttons, not VALUE buttons.

Anyway, if anyone else runs into this problem, that may be the solution.

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#2289076 - 06/12/14 08:39 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: ColoRodney]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ColoRodney
On page 26, under effects, the ES7 manual states "Pressing the ^ and v VALUE buttons simultaneously alternates the speed of the rotary simulation between "Slow" and "Fast" effect modes."

I found that doing that changes the sound from whatever you're playing to Concert Grand.

After experimenting, it turns out that to alternate the rotary effect speed, you need to press both ^ and v MENU buttons, not VALUE buttons.

Anyway, if anyone else runs into this problem, that may be the solution.


Thank you ColoRodney.

This was an error in the original version of the ES7 owner's manual, but fixed in subsequent versions.



The latest version of the ES7 owner's manual PDF can be downloaded from the Kawai Japan support pages below:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/manuals.html

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2289352 - 06/13/14 02:00 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: mabraman]
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 28
Oh! Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, when I searched for "Kawai ES7 Manual" on Google, it took me to this manual, which has the same mistake:

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/ES7/OM/ES7_EN_20120308.pdf

Maybe the revised manual should be put on the kawaius.com site as well as the main Japan site.

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#2289491 - 06/13/14 11:25 PM Re: Kawai ES7 user thread [Re: ColoRodney]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ColoRodney
Maybe the revised manual should be put on the kawaius.com site as well as the main Japan site.


I agree. I'll send another request to the folks at Kawai America on Monday.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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