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#2005012 - 12/27/12 03:22 PM USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
All PianoWorld members: You're Invited!
Renowned Swiss Piano Expert Stephan Mohler to debut Kayserburg pianos


Swiss piano expert, and Guangzhou Pearl River piano production director Stephan Mohler will present the new Kayserburg Artist piano line in its USA debut at R.KASSMAN piano in Berkeley, California on Sunday, January 20th.
Mohler, the former Chief of production for C. Bechstein pianos of Berlin, Germany, will present the product details of the recently designed pianos by famed piano designer Lothar Thomma at a performance, presentation and reception featuring the new instrument. To build this instrument, Mohler created a "factory within a factory" at the Guangzhou facility, personally selecting the craftsman to work with him to build the pianos in the European guild system. This means that each instrument is built by a team of individuals from raw product to finished instrument. The pianos, being introduced to the American market at the 2013 National Association of Music Merchants convention in Los Angeles in January, are each hand-crafted and feature solid spruce soundboards, Renner (Stuttgart, Germany) action components, genuine Ebony sharps and patented keytops of mineral components nicknamed "Ecory" (Eco-Ivory). R.KASSMAN was selected as the first Kayserburg dealer in the United States by Pearl River America president Evelyn Luo in a "test market" of how the instruments would be received. Based on response, the instruments will be distributed nationwide beginning in January of 2013.



Edited by master88er (12/27/12 03:23 PM)
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#2005145 - 12/27/12 07:53 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
I would never consider a Chinese piano with a German sounding name.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

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#2005151 - 12/27/12 08:06 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I would never consider a Chinese piano with a German sounding name.


That's fine.

Chances are the new 126 upright show at next NAMM will blow people's mind. The piano apparently became 'talk of show' during last Shanghai piano fair and since appears near impossible to obtain.

[This from a non-dealer telling other non-dealers...]

At least these are genuinely German designed pianos [Lothar Thomma] with many genuine [and clearly identified..] German parts.

AS opposed to some other "German named pianos" cleverly made some place in Europe with Chinese made parts inside them [not clearly identified..]

Staying slightly behind the times may pay for some - for others it ain't.

To each his own.

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (12/27/12 09:14 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005155 - 12/27/12 08:23 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19329
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Norbert

At least these are genuinely German designed pianos [Lothar Thomma] with many genuine [and clearly identified..] German parts.

AS opposed to some other "German named pianos" from somewhere in Europe with Chinese made parts [not clearly identified..]
Speaking in a derogatory fashion about other piano makes is a turn off to most customers. Not specifically naming the piano(s) does not change this tactic. It's still bad mouthing the competition.


Edited by pianoloverus (12/27/12 08:29 PM)

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#2005161 - 12/27/12 08:34 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
There's nothing "derogatary" about this claim.

No names are mentioned, no fingers pointed.

It's not my job to identify specifics or specific names.

For those who like to find out more, reading specs and asking appropriate questions from manufacturers is a good start.

I did - years ago when I visited several factories. Nobody there mentioned the typical "made to our specifications" - all [well, most..] were clear an direct in their answers. For which I respect them.

Here it's somewhat different.

Just mentioning the earth is round gets you quickly into trouble with the favorite crowd.

As if my observation and resulting opinion would make the slightest difference, let alone be of any benefit to me...

Norbert cry


Edited by Norbert (12/27/12 08:47 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005167 - 12/27/12 08:44 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19329
Loc: New York City
I know a dealer who had derogatory claims about a Japanese piano maker("plastic") on his website although he knew they were unfounded and who did not mention his industry affiliation on PW until after it became a rule for dealers.

"There's nothing "derogatory" about this claim.

No names are mentioned, no fingers pointed."


Edited by pianoloverus (12/27/12 08:48 PM)

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#2005170 - 12/27/12 08:52 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7402
Loc: Rochester MN
Norbert said nothing derogatory about the piano or of the dealership. PLU, you misread his post.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2005172 - 12/27/12 08:55 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8526
Loc: Georgia, USA
Come on, gents, let Mater88er (Mr. Kassman) make his announcement/invitation in peace. Other dealer members here have done it... smile

Thanks,

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2005173 - 12/27/12 09:00 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Not buying a "Chinese piano with German name" is perfectly fine by me. It's a free world out there, buyers can [and should..] do as they see fit. No offence to Guapo - a friend!

[Hey, that's why we like to sell Estonias & Sauters!! thumb]

Buying something however, which is clearly not what it claims to be is a somewhat different matter.

Unfortunately a not too infrequent episode involving many of today's "American", "German" and "Canadian" named pianos - from seemingly everywhere and anywhere...

In this regard Kayserburg or Ritmüller [ sister brand] are hardly main villains as there is nothing secret about the details of their pianos, point of origin INCLUDING all parts and components.

By the way: "in detail"

In fact: "proudly and respectfully" made in China.
[ o.k with a little help: http://www.kayserburgpianos.com.au/aboutus.php

In fact the pianos seem to be getting interesting bed partners in the very heart of German piano making:

http://www.dieklaviermachermeister.at/herstellerberichte_nov10.php?lang=en

Time to wake up to a slightly different world out there....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (12/27/12 09:22 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005189 - 12/27/12 09:21 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1968
Loc: Philadelphia area
Thanks for the invitation. Can you tell us more about the piano line? Or post a link?

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#2005211 - 12/27/12 10:13 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
I wasn't knocking Chinese pianos, just those hiding behind a fake name. I think Hailun is a good example of the Chinese doing their thing and developing their name and would not hesitate to again consider them.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

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#2005225 - 12/27/12 10:29 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
Only Norbert could get in trouble for plugging his pianos in a thread started by another dealer to plug his pianos!
_________________________
Gary

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#2005249 - 12/27/12 11:49 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Plowboy]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Geez,

It was simply an invitation! You're not obligated to attend,or have any interest, but i don't recall such vitriol when others have recently invited members to Bosie events, haliun events, Cunningham events or Yamaha events.

And, anyone who thinks the name Kayserburg, as spelled, is an attempt at German lineage obviously hasn't traveled beyond the Rio Grande. I guess we'll just have to suffer without a purchase from Groucho..... Oops, Guadalupe....... dang spellcheck.
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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#2005286 - 12/28/12 02:01 AM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Only Norbert could get in trouble for plugging his pianos in a thread started by another dealer to plug his pianos!


Funny, we're not even a dealers... grin

Quote:
but i don't recall such vitriol when others have recently invited members to Bosie events, haliun events, Cunningham events or Yamaha events.


Of course not. None of the others seem to pose such threat to what is perceived by some as the currently established order of things.

Meaning unfortunately also "opportunity of a lifetime to buyers"

And therein lies the problem.

Everybody make sure never to find let alone try any of these pianos.

Even more dissent expected to break out after....

Let's have 2013 become a year of order and peace!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (12/28/12 02:50 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005360 - 12/28/12 08:20 AM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Kayserburg sounds so Asian, no doubt it was made in Guangzhou, China since the Dim Sum dynasty.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

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#2005476 - 12/28/12 11:37 AM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7182
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: master88er
Geez,

It was simply an invitation! You're not obligated to attend,or have any interest, but i don't recall such vitriol when others have recently invited members to Bosie events, haliun events, Cunningham events or Yamaha events.


Master,

Maybe it's just bad dumb luck, or maybe you need to cultivate some enablers. To make it work, you simply cannot have a first responsee that dumps a bowl of stone-cold gazpacho on your head, followed by Norbert and his nemesis buzzing all around your topic doing a Tom and Jerry retro animation piece.

Let me try to clean this mess up.


originally posted by Gazpacho Brujo

I love the name Kayserberg. It reminds me of when I was employed as a sorcerer at a feudal castle.


originally posted by Northoftheborderberto

I would kill to get the Kayserberg lime, but I hope I don't have to. It's so disappointing. I've pumped up Rittmuller to the point it could be the lead balloon in the Macy's Parade, but what do I get in return? Nada!! Life just isn't fair.


originally posted by PianomoderatorNYC

Simply amazing! I'm sure it will be boffo in the next Pianobuyer. In the meantime, could you post something played by Hamburg on a Hamelin and identify the piece?


originally posted by Ricardo Gasolini

Russell, what am I... chopped liver? I want that line. I'll trade you a Cunningham Composer for a Kayserberg Artist to get the ball rolling, What say you?


orignally posted by Mike's Carr Wash

It sounds like a name for hand-cut pastrami on a bulkie. I'm going to stop by for a sample.

_____________

Now to be serious....

Gazpacho,

Five years ago I felt the same as you do. I gave a point to Hailun for building under its own name. However, in the meantime Hailun has become the builder and/or major supplier to so many lines with so many names in so many different markets that five years from now, topics here may well come down to "My Hailun is better than your Hailun".

I don't see anything wrong with the Kayserberg name if the maker uses the name for the same pianos in all of its international markets and does not trade off whatever buzz the Artist line creates to push lesser products under the same name.

Maybe Master can comment on the current plans for worldwide distribution of these products and what markets are currently targeted.





_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2005503 - 12/28/12 12:11 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Tur:

1] grin

2] thumb

3] Nice to see everybody come to life thumb thumb

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (12/28/12 12:58 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005536 - 12/28/12 01:00 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
I miss Mike's Carr Wash. He made some legitimate points and wrote in an entertaining style. Did he get booted or something?
_________________________
Gary

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#2005648 - 12/28/12 03:41 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1114
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: master88er
And, anyone who thinks the name Kayserburg, as spelled, is an attempt at German lineage...


but perhaps it is, aka http://engrish.com/ smirk
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#2005661 - 12/28/12 04:22 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Kayserburg pianos

Not to be confused with the city of Kayserberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaysersberg

And not to be spelled as

Kaiserburg or
Kaiserberg or
Keiserburg or
Keiserberg

Consider the possibilites !!!! smile
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2005682 - 12/28/12 05:06 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
As a matter of routine I always ask my customers what they think about a piano after playing it first. It's a matter of courtesy, respect and of course helping to identify what they like.

As dealers we also learn from our customers' tastes: this can and often 'does' involve same instruments by same maker.

Waffling about a make and its presumably great or not so great features comes after. From my experience sound is the summary of everything happening in an instrument, be this part of its innate built quality or after-service.

If sound is not right, nothing else matters.

A lot of opinions and observations have been offered already about this newly introduced line of pianos but it would also be nice to hear from those having actually tried the pianos.

[ note emphasis on 'also'... wow ]

Time to sit back and listen to those hopefully a bit more in the know, serious...

Isn't it nice one doesn't have to "like" an instrument by simply trying it?

Smart dealers learn from this...

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (12/28/12 05:19 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2005706 - 12/28/12 06:00 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Entheo]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Entheo
Originally Posted By: master88er
And, anyone who thinks the name Kayserburg, as spelled, is an attempt at German lineage...


but perhaps it is, aka http://engrish.com/ smirk


All your Kayserburg are belong to us!
_________________________
Gary

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#2005714 - 12/28/12 06:09 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: turandot]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: turandot


I don't see anything wrong with the Kayserberg name if the maker uses the name for the same pianos in all of its international markets and does not trade off whatever buzz the Artist line creates to push lesser products under the same name.

Maybe Master can comment on the current plans for worldwide distribution of these products and what markets are currently targeted.



William:

As you know, the brand Kayserburg was created in 2008/2009 for the domestic Chinese market with no intent of export. Those instruments were essentially Ritmuller pianos with some variations and, in some specific model cases, more hands on- some even being finished in Germany.

Because of their acceptance in the marketplace, Pearl River then decided (2011)to build an instrument to compete with the Yamaha CF and Shigeru Kawai instruments and to market them with the Kayserburg label. They created a "factory within a factory," lead by Stephan Mohler, to build these newly designed pianos (by L. Thomma of course) on a very limited basis.

Now that the guild teams (European traditional method of building pianos) are fully trained, and producing approximately 40 instruments a month, Pearl River has decided to add the US market and Europe for ONLY the Kayserburg Artist series uprights. These pianos are best distinguished from the Chinese domestic instruments by model. For example, the domestic Kayserburg 48" piano is the UH121 - exactly the same model designation as the Ritmuller 48" in the USA.

However, the Kayserburg Artist 48" piano is the model KA121. These have completely different components, soundboards, actions and production (completely hand-made by the Artist team and each finished product inspected by Mohler)and include the new mineral "Ecory" keys (mineral substance that is very Ivory-like).

At the moment, only the Kayserburg Artist uprights will be available in the USA (KA 121, KA 126 and KA 132 and MAYBE the KA 130 (my personal favorite)), with grands to follow later - perhaps next year. The grand designations are KR or KD - not GH as in the domestic Kayserburg/Ritmuller.

Since Ritmuller's have become somewhat established in the USA, the intent is to keep their identity the same and separate the Kayserburg Artist pianos completely - much like Shigeru Kawai.

If there are any other questions, I am happy to answer them through PM.
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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#2005776 - 12/28/12 08:54 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Guapo Gabacho]
KurtZ Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 892
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
I would never consider a Chinese piano with a German sounding name.


Said the gringo who uses a spanish screen name.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2005782 - 12/28/12 09:02 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
Master88er,

For those of us that can't attend Winter NAMM, some pictures, sound clips, and a video of the guild team building one of the new grands would be very cool.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#2005789 - 12/28/12 09:26 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
KurtZ Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 892
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Russell,

Congrats on the official roll-out. I can't stand NAMM after about 35 of them but eventually I have to get up to Berkley to visit a favorite cousin. So right after I've kissed their darling baby and had my heart attack on a pan at Gioia, I look forward to meeting you and seeing the Kayserburgs.
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2005877 - 12/29/12 03:44 AM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Gregor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 434
Loc: Münster, Germany
Originally Posted By: master88er
completely hand-made by the Artist team


Define hand-made. Are they using CNC machinery for making the bridges or do they make them with a chisel? Do they fit the thickness of the soundboard with a draw blade?

Gregor
_________________________
piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
www.weldert.de

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#2006073 - 12/29/12 03:19 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Gregor]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Hi Gregor:

After 30 years of traveling to Germany, and doing business there, I know how "literal" the German language and people tend to be. So with my Lebkuchen in one hand, and schnapps in the other , I'll choose to take your comment with a smile and respond that, as you know, the Guild system of building instruments is very much a hands-on approach rather than assembly line production, which is largely automated and impersonal.

For example, using your soundboard example: This does not mean that wood is cut with a sawhorse and mean-toothed blade, but rather with a precision laser which is more accurate. The soundboard material is specially selected by a trained technician from a large stockpile of spruce (Pearl River has a HUGE stockpile), and then guided through the production and installation process by that same individual(s). With production line instruments, that is not the case. This same process is applied to other component selection, and the instrument is built in a separate facility in the guild fashion - several teams, each building sister pianos from start to finish.

If you would like to see an example of this type of production, I am sure I can arrange a visit to Sauter or Steingraeber for you since they are closer to you than Pearl River. They employ this same method of production, even though they don't use a "chisel" or "a draw blade" - oh, wait, Steingraeber does! grin
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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#2006090 - 12/29/12 03:51 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: master88er]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted By: master88er
The soundboard material is specially selected by a trained technician...


A communist none the less.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

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#2006096 - 12/29/12 03:57 PM Re: USA Debut of Kayserburg Artist Pianos [Re: Guapo Gabacho]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1529
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
Originally Posted By: master88er
The soundboard material is specially selected by a trained technician...


A communist none the less.


No. A human being actually.

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