Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
89 registered (AndrewJCW, ando, aric, Anticlock, 25 invisible), 997 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#2007040 - 12/31/12 12:16 PM Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice
Phillip Kwan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 10
Hi all,

I've recently become the owner of a 1974 Kawai model 600 grand. The strings have been replaced, new pin block and tuning pins. The hammers look to be in good shape, without too much wear on the felts. Hammer knuckles show some very minor wear, mostly discolouration from the jack.

I have a basic understanding of the parts and action of the piano, and have been tinkering with it carefully over the last few days. I suppose what I'm lacking the most are the "rules of thumb" for the correction positions and alignments of the action at rest, and at different stages of the hammer strike.

Maybe I'll start off with a few very basic questions:

1. I read somewhere that the wippen should be such that the hammer head does not rest on the felt, and is suspended slightly above it in the stationary position. Is there a general rule for how much above the felt hammer rest it should be?

2. Where the top of the repetition lever butts up to the underside of the hammer joint (on my Kawai, the top of the repetition lever has a small pad that pushes up against the screw head at the hammer joint), should this be at the same height on all pianos. I've discovered that there are quite a few things that affect the total height extension of the wippen assembly, but I'll keep this question generic for now.

3. Similarly, I've also read that in the stationary position, the jack should be just ever-so slightly below the edges of the repetition lever at the opening. Should I use the jack regulating screw to position the jack directly square below the hammer knuckle? If the hammer knuckles are not perfectly aligned key-to-key, should the jack be adjusted to achieve the above?

4. Should the position of the let-off button be aligned for all keys? IE. should I level all the let-off buttons so that they're at the same height off the base of the action? Or do the specific adjustments to independent wippens demand that the let-off button be different in order to accommodate?

5. The height of the hammer rest, from what I can infer, determines to a certain extent the volume of the piano. My Kawai is currently quite loud, which is probably in part due to the empty room that it's located in (at the moment devoid of furniture and area rugs). I'm thinking of raising the hammer rest, but I don't want to compromise the key dip. Is there a way to adjust this without making the key dip too shallow?

6. Could someone describe the optimal position of the hammer and wippen when the key is slowly depressed all the way? Where the jack slightly kicks out from underneath the hammer knuckle and does a little wobble? I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to. This "action" isn't consistent across all the keys, so I'd like to make them all consistent, but need to know what it's supposed to be like.

7. Similar to point 2, should the capstans all be at the same height as well? Or do these sometimes need to be different to accommodate the rest of the action?

Thanks in advance for any help! I apologize if I'm asking very basic and obvious questions. And Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all! smile

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention 2015 Denver
PTG Convention July 15 to 18 Denver
#2007052 - 12/31/12 12:53 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: Phillip Kwan]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2712
Loc: Olympia, WA
Don't expect adjustment screws to perfectly line up. There will be quite a bit of variation even on a well-regulated action. I recommend getting a copy of Reblitz book and studying the chapter on regulation. That will answer most of your questions.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2007067 - 12/31/12 01:39 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: Phillip Kwan]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2270
Loc: Suffolk, England
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#2007080 - 12/31/12 02:20 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: Phillip Kwan]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3461
IMO, the Kawai 600 can be a high performance instrument. Regulation is not for the novice; call a tech.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#2007106 - 12/31/12 03:15 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: Phillip Kwan]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8021
Loc: France
Even with the very well described Kawai manual, you need to be atechnician to make the operations with some understanding AND a decent result.

Lining the hammers and shanks can be done by the pianist, but it will modify the aftertouch, so i consider that to be done only on a precedently perfectly regulated instrument that compressed a little for some reason.

Playing with regulation on a good grand can only provide you minimal service, even if most of the time the owners that want to regulate their piano are very happy of the result (I stopped trying to show them their mistakes)

ALl depends of what you are lookingf for, as it is your piano, you can do whatever you want. I would suggest to locate a concert technician, and organise something so you can have your instrument regulated at its best some day.

In the meantime there is plenty of documentation, rarely explaining everything even if it shows the good synopsis or the differnt parts of the regulation.

DIffernt pianos actions also ask for differnt types of regulation, while all pianos are "playeable" with a minimal job (and much more tolerant than they should in my opinion, if pianos where out of order more easily more regulation and maintenance would be done.) , to get the best of agiven piano mean putting it in the hands of a high knowledge technician preferntly good pianist himself...

Basics of regulation are now more or less easy to find, and most parts are known, but once in front of the instrument it is another story.

I have seen enough seosoned tehcnicians just missing apoint on a grand piano and leaving it in a depreciated condition without finding where the problem was (often in keyframe to keybed adjustment).

You probably can obtain a "better than none" regulation, but you also could mess with the action and have the piano in less good condition than originally in the end without being able to see where is the glitch..


P.S the regulation manual from Kawai is explianing way more than the RTeblitz hopw to regulate a modern grand piano. Probably Reblitz may help to see the tools used, and other basics, but I have find that book useless when it come sto regulation, be it on verticals or grand pianos.

Written at a time where knowledge was not spread enough or with enough analysis probably. (also the writer was not a "piano technician", I know a few persons non professionals that are abolutely capable to repair a piano, action and strings/soundboard, and player action as well eventually, but dont understand how an optimal regulation enghance the tone, or how the voicing is constructed.

They simply do not have the good reflexes in front of a given situation, rgeulation wise. THose that the experienced technician learn slowly and from experience, and that makes him able to "read " a piano condition, hen,ce know what is the first point he will begin with.

Good luck, and sorry to be so abrupt.



Edited by Kamin (12/31/12 03:24 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2007110 - 12/31/12 03:29 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: beethoven986]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8021
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
IMO, the Kawai 600 can be a high performance instrument. Regulation is not for the novice; call a tech.


IMHO Do not call "a tech" but first find who to call, grand regulation is for experienced techs.

And before regulation, very possibly 50% or more of the hammer centers have to be replaced compressed cloths and felts could be changed or repaired, contaminated leather (knuckles) could be cleaned, everything dusted with compressed air if possible, keys pins cleaned/lubed, etc etc.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2007113 - 12/31/12 03:47 PM Re: Basic Piano Regulation Tips for a Novice [Re: Olek]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3461
Originally Posted By: Kamin
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
IMO, the Kawai 600 can be a high performance instrument. Regulation is not for the novice; call a tech.


IMHO Do not call "a tech" but first find who to call, grand regulation is for experienced techs.


This goes without saying.

Originally Posted By: Kamin
And before regulation, very possibly 50% or more of the hammer centers have to be replaced compressed cloths and felts could be changed or repaired, contaminated leather (knuckles) could be cleaned, everything dusted with compressed air if possible, keys pins cleaned/lubed, etc etc.


I consider these procedures to be a part of the regulation process. Some technicians certainly do skip these refinements. I don't.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
(ad) Teaching Music To Children
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
PianoDisc
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yet pulled in another direction again!
by Isabelle1949
07/04/15 01:25 AM
YAMAHA DISCLAVIER MODEL MX100B
by JJC
07/03/15 10:29 PM
Buying new Dp Help - Yamaha ydp s52
by TigerPaws
07/03/15 06:29 PM
Why do high-end Casio pianos have less tones than low end?
by FrankCox
07/03/15 05:53 PM
beware of what before buying an antique Lindeman baby grand?
by Lucylu
07/03/15 05:28 PM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
79,877 Registered Members
44 Forums
165,279 Topics
2,423,783 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission