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#2007964 - 01/02/13 12:59 PM Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . .
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
. . .To the real deal?? Was thinking of putting this on the "Pianos" forum, but that could be a step tooooo far . . !
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2007977 - 01/02/13 01:27 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Well, in a sense you have already put it on the Piano forum in your "why haven't pianos moved on" thread. And look how well that went down!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2007984 - 01/02/13 01:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: EssBrace]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 283
i prefer a good digital to most pianos that I find in the average persons home. Now a good upright or grand - that is a different story. It all comes down to quality for me.

I think in the end I want both. A good digital and and a nice grand piano.
_________________________
Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

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#2007985 - 01/02/13 01:35 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: EssBrace]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
True . . but I did say "semi-serious"; I suppose the Light Brigade thought the same when they charged; Mind you, it was fun while it lasted..
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2007994 - 01/02/13 01:53 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Many, many acoustic pianos out there are in very poor regulation and tune and I hate that. Others were never designed to be nice (I was raised on a spinet and it was terrible). I prefer a decent digital to them, yes. In fact, I'd say I usually prefer digitals in the price range $900-$2000 to acoustic counterparts costing the same amount. Of course, a $2000 digital is a good one and a $2000 acoustic is often not good, so we aren't really comparing apples to apples. On the other hand, you can often get deals on great acoustics for less than $2000 on craigslist and so forth...

I definitely prefer the best acoustics to the best digitals, but an acoustic doesn't fit with my lifestyle at the moment (I'm always playing at night, for example). An acoustic is a great performance instrument, but it's not a great instrument to stick in a small place and play without disturbing anyone.


Edited by gvfarns (01/02/13 01:53 PM)

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#2008004 - 01/02/13 02:14 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 242
Loc: Virginia, USA
Quote:
I think in the end I want both. A good digital and a nice grand piano.


This! If you can afford the cost and space for the grand, the digital is a no brainer!
_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#2008012 - 01/02/13 02:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
voodooblues Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 25
I agree with previus posters. A digital piano, in my mind, easily beats most uprights I've played and poorly maintained grands.

If gigging I would'nt propably use a grand even if one was availeble. Digital piano is just so much easier and 99% of the audience won't know the difference, no matter how fine the grand would be. Classical and solo-jazzing is a different story ofcourse, but I don't do thatkind of stuff.

I started my playing with synth action kb's and from there moved to digi pianos. When I finally started practicing on grands and upright I developed a carpal tunnel syndrome that bothers me frequently. But even if my wrist would be fine the only thing I'd prefer over a digi piano would be a decent grand.

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#2008040 - 01/02/13 03:21 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
Acoustic is best. The digital is for portability and/or low-cost and/or low-maintenance and/or headphone privacy. When those criteria don't apply the acoustic wins by a country mile.

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#2008042 - 01/02/13 03:22 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
. . .To the real deal?? Was thinking of putting this on the "Pianos" forum, but that could be a step tooooo far . . !


Seriously? More of this, Pete?

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#2008048 - 01/02/13 03:35 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I think that below 5K digital is a better purchase.
Unless you are buying a very old instrument, acoustic will not be of a very good quality.
Too heavy action difficult to play thrills, not so nice tone - what I see on cheap acoustic instruments, including grands.
And as you can see from DPSDB thread - someone mentioned that his acoustic Yong Chang (budget brand) had dynamic range around 50dB that is not superior to a good digital piano smile
Wonder what is better then about budget acoustic pianos... (I like never touch nor sound of YC).

So comparing apples to apples (pianos at the same price range, not Clavinova vs. concert grand) digital is good.
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2008111 - 01/02/13 05:26 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Hideki Matsui Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
I don't even keep a digital for piano or electric piano in the house anymore. There's nothing like the real thing:



Edited by Hideki Matsui (01/02/13 06:01 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2008113 - 01/02/13 05:29 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hideki Matsui]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
@Hideki Matsui,

Question:

How much did that Shigeru Kawai SK5 cost you?

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#2008120 - 01/02/13 05:45 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: voodooblues]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
This topic has been beaten black and blue before being strung up and shot full of poisonous arrow holes. Anyone interested can find numerous past threads...

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#2008129 - 01/02/13 06:15 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
Rest content Ando! I will not darken the doors of that forum again. Well, for a week or so . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008131 - 01/02/13 06:18 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hideki Matsui]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
Hideki - I detect a Wurlitzer piano in the background! I had one o` them. It was always going out of tune, but what a sound!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008134 - 01/02/13 06:22 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: 10fingers]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
To 10fingers.

This topic has become an argument between DPs and AP`s. That is not what I posted. Nor what I posted on the other forum. But it happened. Not responsible, ole lad! (Gallic shrug once again)

Sacre Bleu et zut alors . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008136 - 01/02/13 06:24 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Hideki Matsui Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: peterws
Hideki - I detect a Wurlitzer piano in the background! I had one o` them. It was always going out of tune, but what a sound!


Looks like it...but no. Tine based Vintage Vibe 64.

I think they are working on a Wurly for NAMM... I'll definitely get one of those too.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2008139 - 01/02/13 06:27 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: pv88]
Hideki Matsui Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: pv88
@Hideki Matsui,

Question:

How much did that Shigeru Kawai SK5 cost you?


I got a great deal, but definitely not cheap. I feel very fortunate to have the luxury of owning and playing a beautiful grand and EP. I wouldn't want to bring them around, but that's why I keep my Jupiter.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (01/02/13 06:39 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2008148 - 01/02/13 06:45 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hideki Matsui]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"I feel very fortunate to have the luxury of owning and playing a beautiful grand and EP."

Do you know, I feel the same about my cheapo DP. I didn`t have a restriction on money when I bought it. There`s a lot of good stuff within it`s plastic housing waiting to came out. . .
Have good one man!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008153 - 01/02/13 06:52 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Hideki Matsui Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: peterws
"I feel very fortunate to have the luxury of owning and playing a beautiful grand and EP."

Do you know, I feel the same about my cheapo DP. I didn`t have a restriction on money when I bought it. There`s a lot of good stuff within it`s plastic housing waiting to came out. . .
Have good one man!


I don't doubt it. I really enjoy playing my Jupiter as well and it can do so many things my piano and EP can't. That being said, when it comes to playing piano or EP at home, the way the Shigeru and VV64 sound in my acoustic space are really amazing and leave me with no reason to seek an emulation of those instruments.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2008166 - 01/02/13 07:17 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hideki Matsui]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui

I think they are working on a Wurly for NAMM... I'll definitely get one of those too.


Wow - I hope so - that would be amazing. If they are, I wonder whether they'll use the same kind of action - it's more complicated than a Rhodes action and I imagine it would be more expensive to make.

Greg.

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#2008190 - 01/02/13 08:17 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hideki Matsui]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I don't even keep a digital for piano or electric piano in the house anymore. There's nothing like the real thing:


Nice piano. I want to buy a fine grand one day too - but this is still apples and oranges.

If we compare apples to apples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9qJL7E8Yk4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8ZiYCrjo8

Both pianos cost approximately same (the acoustic probably a little bit pricier), soundwise they are very similar (I probably like Yamaha more), the action is better on Yamaha, and it is way more convenient and does not require maintenance (except dust removal :))

Hope this explains why digitals are sold in proportion 75% to 25% to acoustic (not everyone will purchase a grand at double-digit-thousand range).
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2008219 - 01/02/13 09:24 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: peterws
To 10fingers.

This topic has become an argument between DPs and AP`s. That is not what I posted.


So the original post was "Does anybody prefer the Digital... to the real deal??"

I suppose to be fair, you didn't specify that 'Digital' refers to digital pianos, and you didn't define 'the real deal'; so was I being presumptuous in assuming you were inviting comparisons between digital and acoustic pianos?

Anyhow, I was just feeling churlish and I don't really wish to stifle good dialogue, although it really is a boring topic, since naturally some people prefer digitals over the real deal. OK, I'm done being snarkey, for now smile

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#2008238 - 01/02/13 10:01 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
EPW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Why I otta.......

Seriously, I practiced on a wurlitzer upright piano and then left piano for 12 years.
College etc. etc. etc. I remembered how much I enjoyed playing and started back up again. Got a Technic Digital piano that is long over due to be replaced. If it weren't for the digital I wouldn't be able to practice. Funny thing is I had a customer
several years ago that invited be out to golf and then to his house for BBQ.
He is a Doctor and lives in country club area. He has a beautiful Yamaha Baby Grand
up on a balcony. I asked if I could tickle them a little bit. The sound was wonderful
and filled up the whole house. He was also shocked that I could play all the pop
music they had laying around the piano.
Sad thing is the piano is more for show as the whole family doesn't play. Eight in total in the house ( dad, mom, and six kids ) frown I would die for a set up like that, but it ain't going to happen. Best I get to do is play on the baby grand piano in
church.
My plan is to get the Casio PX-350 or simular for up-stairs in the office and replace the Techic the following year in the den.

My wife knows it is coming but laughs that I won't step foot in a piano dealer in fear
that I will fall in love with one and have to have it. I've been putting away B-day money and xmas money for the stage piano. Got that covered and will get it next month or two smile

I think a lot of us here would love a great acoustic, but our living area is better suited for a digital piano. I know mine is with two young children. I get to practice
at midnight without disturbing anyone in the house. My wife is jealous. She plays the flute and can't do that.

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#2008252 - 01/02/13 10:32 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
I can't emulate a string orchestra or build my own sounds on an acoustic piano so yeah, I have much more use for digital instruments smile.
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#2008295 - 01/03/13 12:19 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Pedro_Henrique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 74
Loc: Uberaba, Minas Gerais, Brazil
Well... I prefer my MOx to the uprights on the conservatory... but the Grand on the amphitheater... oh dear... it's a Kawai Grand... 1,80m aprox... Don't know the model, but for sure it's a really good and regulated grand piano. Much more pleasing and fun to play than any digital one I ever played. But, anyway, it's expensive to have one of those in home. Just for who can afford it. So I have to prefer Digital Pianos. :X
_________________________
"But its got a crap keyboard action Dave ... no amount of great sounds help that."
Dr. Popper

Piano Student at State Conservatory Renato Frateschi - Uberaba - Minas Gerais - Brazil

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#2008298 - 01/03/13 12:33 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: 10fingers]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"Anyhow, I was just feeling churlish and I don't really wish to stifle good dialogue, although it really is a boring topic, since naturally some people prefer digitals over the real deal."

No worries, man. I don`t always explain things as I mean to. Sorry about that. But there is good dialogue here, and don`t forget, it`s all new to me! I have yet to find ONE who prefers the digital "piano copy" (did ya like that last bit?)


Edited by peterws (01/03/13 12:34 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008302 - 01/03/13 12:37 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Wonderboydd Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4
I think digitals have come a long way.

When I was young and learning piano, digitals were still new. They had 16 note polyphony and they sounded mediocre to bad at best.

Our family had one because we had such narrow hallways comming into the second floor, thats all that could fit.

Back then, there was no comparing digitals to any acoustic.

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#2008306 - 01/03/13 12:44 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: EPW]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"He has a beautiful Yamaha Baby Grand
up on a balcony. I asked if I could tickle them a little bit. The sound was wonderful and filled up the whole house."

I do wonder if I`m missing out on something here. Yet there`s nothing in our piano shop to interest me. Nothing at all although I`ve played plenty in the past . . and the latest digitals are sounding more like `em . . sort of . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008309 - 01/03/13 12:57 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
Wow. It seems you guys have never heard an acoustic piano.
I've never heard a digital piano sound like an decent acoustic. Not even close.

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#2008311 - 01/03/13 01:13 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Almost everyone has heard recorded acoustic pianos through a variety of sound systems.

The sound heard directly from a contemporary digital piano (meaning, heard in the same room from the external or internal speakers of the digital piano) can get closer to that sound than an acoustic.

I realize this is not what people are expected to understand when thinking about the sounds heard directly from a physical acoustic piano in three-dimensional space (as opposed to recorded, processed and played through a sound system).

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#2008322 - 01/03/13 02:04 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: o0Ampy0o]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Almost everyone has heard recorded acoustic pianos through a variety of sound systems.

The sound heard directly from a contemporary digital piano (meaning, heard in the same room from the external or internal speakers of the digital piano) can get closer to that sound than an acoustic.

I realize this is not what people are expected to understand when thinking about the sounds heard directly from a physical acoustic piano in three-dimensional space (as opposed to recorded, processed and played through a sound system).


What is your point, o0Ampy0o?

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#2008324 - 01/03/13 02:11 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
My point, for many people their experience of an acoustic piano is limited to recordings. Before I was interested in playing piano I did not absorb the experience when I was around an acoustic piano. My memory was predominantly filled with recorded pianos. The experience of a physical piano is foreign to many people so they have no such reference when evaluating digital pianos. Coupled with the improvements in digital piano technology people are conditioned to accept the digital representation. So to those with hands on experience of acoustic pianos it may seem absurd that people could like digital pianos as much as they often do.


Edited by o0Ampy0o (01/03/13 02:15 AM)

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#2008327 - 01/03/13 02:23 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: peterws
I have yet to find ONE who prefers the digital "piano copy" (did ya like that last bit?)


I think it's about the connection between person and this exquisite thing called a really good piano. The sound is just one component of the experience; it's really a holistic thing, and if you haven't felt that, you need to get yourself to a good piano shop when there is no one around to mar your experience.

Whilst I appreciate my RD700NX, it doesn't come close even to my humble Yamaha U2 upright, in playing enjoyment. A really good DP sounds great and feels pretty good, but ultimately fails the 'connection' test.

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#2008336 - 01/03/13 03:43 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
Personna. I love to hear the different renditions of this piece of music. On different instruments. . . including digitals that look nothing more than a plank of wood . .

Listen to this guy go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saof7FN_cwk
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008346 - 01/03/13 04:35 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 445
Loc: Europe
o0Ampy0o, you are absolutly right. I am almost never exposed to a good acoustic piano (besides in music stores), so I am mainly biased by what I hear in good quality from CD on my HiFi stereo system. And yes, my digital piano does not only reach to this sound but even tops it, because it much better fills the room (not only stereo, but much more 3D) while having AT LEAST a same beautiful tone.

Then, listening on youtube and sometimes even here in the pianoworld ABF to the many badly tuned acoustics, or listening to an odd acoustic in a music store which costs only the same as a very good digital piano, I of course am absolutly convinced that my digital is better, and thus perfect for me: sounds at least as good as CD recordings, and is better than any eaqually priced acoustic, it is maintenace free and always well tuned and adaptable to any volume I require at a certain day time. So, no reason to ask for more (at the moment :-) ).
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2008352 - 01/03/13 05:05 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: o0Ampy0o]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"So to those with hands on experience of acoustic pianos it may seem absurd that people could like digital pianos as much as they often do."

True. But they would maintain that people like me and thee haven`t enough hands on experience of the acoustic to appreciate. I would go further. Any piano being heard in an auditorium from a distance would sound nothing like you get sitting at it`s keyboard. Like rattly keys, the pianist swearing, farting . . . sneezing (its bound to happen) Don`t I lower the tone of this forum?



Edited by peterws (01/03/13 05:06 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008355 - 01/03/13 05:09 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Marco M]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
Marco M - So right! What you hear is what you get. Recordings are the proof. You think like me. My digital sounds wonderful. It cost me £425 (it fell of the back of a lorry)


Edited by peterws (01/03/13 05:10 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008370 - 01/03/13 06:18 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Dorset, UK
I have played APs for six decades. My current AP is a Kawai RX2 - wonderful instrument, somewhat reduced in enjoyment by the poor acoustics of my room. I have recently bought my first DP, a Kawai ES7. Reasons? May have to downsize and let the RX2 go, portability to play on occasions elsewhere than home, to record some of my repertoire before arthritis/senility/whatever sets in.

I haven't taken it out yet, still have the RX2, but have recorded a few pieces from the ES7 and I know which instrument I prefer for this: the ES7. No background noise, no fiddling with mic positions, no endless tweaking of the sound in Audacity (my mics are bass-light for a start). Just insert a memory stick, press record and hey presto, an MP3 file which just needs amplification and top and tailing in Audacity. I am still getting used to the touch of the ES7 but can contemplate life without the RX2. Yes, the RX2 gives me more, but the difference is much less than I expected. However, if the RX2 were in a larger/warmer room the differences would be more apparent.

I am concentrating on getting used to the ES7, so the RX2 is a bit redundant at the moment, but it will be interesting when I move on to playing either whenever I choose. Meanwhile the ES7 is very satisfying.

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#2008410 - 01/03/13 08:25 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
Morodiene Online   content
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Originally Posted By: personne
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I don't even keep a digital for piano or electric piano in the house anymore. There's nothing like the real thing:


Nice piano. I want to buy a fine grand one day too - but this is still apples and oranges.

If we compare apples to apples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9qJL7E8Yk4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8ZiYCrjo8

Both pianos cost approximately same (the acoustic probably a little bit pricier), soundwise they are very similar (I probably like Yamaha more), the action is better on Yamaha, and it is way more convenient and does not require maintenance (except dust removal :))

Hope this explains why digitals are sold in proportion 75% to 25% to acoustic (not everyone will purchase a grand at double-digit-thousand range).


I can always pick out the sound of a digital vs. acoustic. There was a post on one of these forums once where they had several acoustics and digitals (about 6 in all I think) with the same person, same piece of music, and audio clips only, and we all had to guess which was which instrument. The digital was by far the easiest to pick out. To my ears, it sounds "dead", lacking in depth (this is NOT a criticism of the playing, btw wink ).

Purchasing a digital is far less a financial investment than a good acoustic, for sure. I recommend digitals to students who are in situations that require for space and sound concerns. But I always recommend getting a good acoustic above all else. Nothing beats the feel and sound - all other things being equal.

Having said that, I do own both. My Roland FP-7 has served me well with outdoor gigs, interim piano while I wait for my Yamaha G3 to be moved to FL from WI, and for fun with making recordings with Ivory. However, I would choose a good acoustic upright over it any day to teach on or play for my own enjoyment.
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#2008415 - 01/03/13 08:37 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
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Loc: North Carolina
Ampy, I understand your point (comparing a digital to a recorded acoustic). And I take the opposite view. For me, no digital (not even with a proper sampled piano library) can compare to a properly recorded acoustic piano. Digitals still cannot capture the range, dynamics, and air of an acoustic. So I treat a digital for what it provides: Low cost, low maintenance, and private listening. The rest can only come from an acoustic.

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#2008421 - 01/03/13 08:53 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
bennevis Online   content
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There are a few professionally recorded performances of a high-end (sampled) DP by established classical concert pianists on CD, which I've listened to. Here, it's not a question of inadequate amateur recording on low-resolution YouTube. The results really do sound artificial, and not just because of the looping and lack of various resonances.

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#2008426 - 01/03/13 09:00 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: bennevis]
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis
There are a few professionally recorded performances of a high-end (sampled) DP by established classical concert pianists on CD, which I've listened to. Here, it's not a question of inadequate amateur recording on low-resolution YouTube. The results really do sound artificial, and not just because of the looping and lack of various resonances.

Interesting. Can you describe what it is that makes it sound artificial to you?

If the recordings are done at the DP speakers then I understand completely. Otherwise I'm not sure what would be the tip-off other than the usual suspects (looping, stretching, too few layers, lack of resonance, etc.).
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#2008438 - 01/03/13 09:34 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Carlos-CR Offline
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Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Almost everyone has heard recorded acoustic pianos through a variety of sound systems.

The sound heard directly from a contemporary digital piano (meaning, heard in the same room from the external or internal speakers of the digital piano) can get closer to that sound than an acoustic.
...


Mmmm. I'm not sure I can agree with that. When I ear a recorded piano there seems to be more "complexity" in the sound. Maybe it's just reverb, but it isn't usually present in digitals.

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#2008441 - 01/03/13 09:39 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Carlos-CR Offline
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Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: peterws
Marco M - So right! What you hear is what you get. Recordings are the proof. You think like me. My digital sounds wonderful. It cost me £425 (it fell of the back of a lorry)


I wouldn't hurry up with your conclusions. If experienced people was able to detect the digital between the acoustics in that test that Morodienne mentioned, it surely means there are differences between acoustics and digitals.


Edited by Carlos-CR (01/03/13 09:43 AM)
Edit Reason: wrong quote attribution

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#2008451 - 01/03/13 09:58 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: dewster]
bennevis Online   content
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Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: bennevis
There are a few professionally recorded performances of a high-end (sampled) DP by established classical concert pianists on CD, which I've listened to. Here, it's not a question of inadequate amateur recording on low-resolution YouTube. The results really do sound artificial, and not just because of the looping and lack of various resonances.

Interesting. Can you describe what it is that makes it sound artificial to you?

If the recordings are done at the DP speakers then I understand completely. Otherwise I'm not sure what would be the tip-off other than the usual suspects (looping, stretching, too few layers, lack of resonance, etc.).


I don't know how they were recorded, but I think it's directly from line-out to digital recorder (correct me if I'm not using the proper terminology) rather than via the speakers,because there's no extraneous noise of any sort (key action, pedal action, fingernail clicks on keys etc).

It's the way when the pianist plays louder, the volume increases but is not commensurate with more overtones (sounding 'sharper' or more brilliant) to the same extent. It's as if the volume goes up a lot more than the actual change in the tone that would be expected for this amount of increase in volume - or in other words, like the balance engineer decided to give the pianist a helping hand with his dynamics by turning the volume dial, to save him having to hit the keys much harder. The pianist probably chose the wrong kind of music to play on the DP - a Chopin Etude (Op.25/7) that goes from ppp to fff, with much of the music quite slow-moving and sustained. The other pianist played a slow, sustained Scriabin piece with fewer notes which just makes the looping all the more obvious, but even here, the dynamics also sounded odd.

I played those tracks 'blind' (mixed in with recordings of a real piano) for musician friends, and they also thought there was something artificial and odd about the sound of this piano, but they assumed that it was something the recording engineer did to the recording as I didn't tell them that a digital piano was used on a couple of the pieces.

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#2008457 - 01/03/13 10:16 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Carlos-CR]
Marco M Offline
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Registered: 08/28/12
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Of course there are differences. Huge differences. But I prefer to compare a 2500 EUR digital with a 2500 EUR acoustic.

When I could have had hands on acoustics in a store, I decided for myself, that acoustics will become interesting for me only if I could at least spend 8000 EUR for it. Otherwise I better stay with a 2000 - 3000 EUR digital.

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#2008461 - 01/03/13 10:20 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Carlos-CR]
peterws Online   content
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Carlos, what you say is correct. But it`s more correct for some pianos than for others. I`m really happy wi my own; to me (probably no one else) it sounded far better than any other digital in the shop. It was also one of the cheapest. It has loads of soul, man! And the second "Grand Piano" on it also has a flat note or two . . . . just for realism, no doubt . .


Edited by peterws (01/03/13 10:22 AM)
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#2008472 - 01/03/13 10:49 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
36251 Offline
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Posts: 646
There's no chicken or the egg theory. Of course acoustics came first and there's nothing better if the piano is a quality, tuned instrument and located in a place that doesn't promote inhibition.

If I had space and money I'd love to own a Steinway L or B besides my AG. I think I would still play my AG when I woodsheading. I seem to be more focused when doing repetitive concepts.

I love to be able to just play on the grand.
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#2008478 - 01/03/13 11:07 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
adak Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
how does pianoteq + a weighted keyboard + quality speakers sound compared to a grand piano?
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#2008479 - 01/03/13 11:10 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Carlos-CR Offline
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Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: peterws
Carlos, what you say is correct. But it`s more correct for some pianos than for others.. .


But take into account that I didn't say acoustics sounded better, just more "complex". And that holds true for almost any decent piano. smile

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#2008489 - 01/03/13 11:44 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: adak]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: adak
how does pianoteq + a weighted keyboard + quality speakers sound compared to a grand piano?


Not too good. How does Earth as a planet compare to Venus? wink I'd say they're worlds apart.

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#2008508 - 01/03/13 12:23 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
how does pianoteq + a weighted keyboard + quality speakers sound compared to a grand piano?


Not too good. How does Earth as a planet compare to Venus? wink I'd say they're worlds apart.


Letting the timbre questions apart (some people says it doesn't sound like a real piano), it has been hypothesized in this forum that the sound dispersion pattern of a speaker is not the same than what a piano has. It's probably true for any sound with some complexity. Has anybody noticed how any non-amplified music that you ear in person sounds different to a recorded one?

I think that's the reason why recent digital instruments pay so much attention to amplification and speakers system and resonators (I'm thinking about AvantGrands specifically, although Roland and kawai also seems to be moving in this direction).

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#2008536 - 01/03/13 01:31 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Carlos-CR]
ando Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Carlos-CR

I think that's the reason why recent digital instruments pay so much attention to amplification and speakers system and resonators (I'm thinking about AvantGrands specifically, although Roland and kawai also seems to be moving in this direction).


That's definitely an important line of inquiry, although I still think they need to work even harder on putting full length samples with no looping/stretching, and also work harder on the resonance emulation of real pianos. It doesn't matter what they do with sound systems if they don't improve these basic areas. It's the biggest thing making DPs feel relatively dead compared to an acoustic. I have no doubt it can be done, probably through modelling eventually. I'm sure that if there was an all out effort of NASA proportions, they could eventually produce a DP that could match a large concert grand. It's just that the improvements are so slow and incremental. It's taking forever to get where I want DPs to be. I'd love to be able to buy a DP that can do it all - I'd give up my acoustic if I could. But we are SOOO far away from that. When I was a kid, there were all these promises and speculations about DPs. Now, 25 years later, I'm starting to think I'm going to die before a really great DP is made!

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#2008546 - 01/03/13 01:52 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
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Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
This is true.
Originally Posted By: ando
It doesn't matter what they do with sound systems if they don't improve these basic areas. It's the biggest thing making DPs feel relatively dead compared to an acoustic.
When I bought my Clav four years ago I didn't like the sound. I went through several iterations of external sound system, yielding slight improvement, but never satisfying.

This has already been done.
Originally Posted By: ando
I have no doubt it can be done, probably through modelling eventually.
But I think sampling holds more promise than modeling.

This, too, is true.
Originally Posted By: ando
It's just that the improvements are so slow and incremental. It's taking forever to get where I want DPs to be.
But the market is successful even with the current crop of crap. If people buy them and the makers generate profit, they'll continue producing much of the same.

Quote:
I'd love to be able to buy a DP that can do it all ... but we are SOOO far away from that.
Yes ... very far away. But I think the best samplers have reached a point that the tone generator is no longer the red-line limiting factor. Now the sound systems need improvement.

Originally Posted By: ando
When I was a kid, there were all these promises and speculations about DPs.
When I was a kid there were no digital pianos, nor synthesizers, nor any electronic instruments (save for the exotic Theremin, curious but useless). So there were no promises made and no expectations shattered.

Originally Posted By: ando
I'm starting to think I'm going to die before a really great DP is made!
You will! frown And so will I. frown

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#2008550 - 01/03/13 01:56 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: MacMacMac]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Originally Posted By: ando
I'm starting to think I'm going to die before a really great DP is made!
You will! frown And so will I. frown


That's because you're a pair of cynical old farts! Rejoice, rejoice! NAMM is nearly here. Some nifty new DP is going to blow us all away. If not this year then maybe next. Or the one after that. Probably.
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#2008551 - 01/03/13 01:57 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
adak Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
For those who are bitching about the sound, just use a software piano from your laptop plugged into your digital piano by USB. You can have any kind of sound you want.

If you are too cheap and expect a $1000 digital piano to sound like a $100,000 grand piano then are you being unrealistic. Compare a $100,000 grand piano to a $100,000 digital piano and then you can talk.
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#2008554 - 01/03/13 02:02 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: EssBrace]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Originally Posted By: ando
I'm starting to think I'm going to die before a really great DP is made!
You will! frown And so will I. frown


That's because you're a pair of cynical old farts! Rejoice, rejoice! NAMM is nearly here. Some nifty new DP is going to blow us all away. If not this year then maybe next. Or the one after that. Probably.


The sad thing is, I'm not even 40 yet, and I still think I'm going to die before a really great DP is made!

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#2008557 - 01/03/13 02:10 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: adak]
ando Online   content
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Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: adak

If you are too cheap and expect a $1000 digital piano to sound like a $100,000 grand piano then are you being unrealistic. Compare a $100,000 grand piano to a $100,000 digital piano and then you can talk.


This comment is made time and time again, but it really is a load of bollocks. The whole dollar for dollar comparison is used to make people feel good about their DP. But there is no $100,000 digital piano. And I would say even a $15k acoustic smokes any DP out there. Saying that DPs offer value for money is a totally different argument. They probably do - they are versatile, portable and have lots of features, but this doesn't excuse them from being nowhere near what they claim to be - a real competitor to a decent acoustic piano. In fact, if you prize the playing experience of a good acoustic, a DP doesn't represent good value for money because you won't get the experience you want and need. For acoustic owners, the money you pay is worth it - so this value comparison, and supposed advantage of DPs in this area, breaks down right there.

So let's dispense with the excuse making and talk about them in real terms of playing experience - rather than blurring the comparison with talk of dollars. Is this thread about comparing the two instruments, or comparing our finances?

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#2008567 - 01/03/13 02:22 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: MacMacMac]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac

Originally Posted By: ando
I have no doubt it can be done, probably through modelling eventually.
But I think sampling holds more promise than modeling.


In the short to medium term, no doubt. I can't help thinking that modelling should theoretically yield better results eventually - especially in terms of integrating the primary notes with the resonance and pedal effects. Of course, this will all happen after we die...

Quote:
But the market is successful even with the current crop of crap. If people buy them and the makers generate profit, they'll continue producing much of the same.

Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is means manufacturers have a low incentive to make things better at a faster rate. I guess that justifies the existence of crappy DPs, but it certainly doesn't settle the argument of how and why DPs fall so far short of acoustics. The problem is that most of the people extolling the virtues of DPs are not experienced enough to even know why acoustics are still so far ahead.

Quote:
But I think the best samplers have reached a point that the tone generator is no longer the red-line limiting factor. Now the sound systems need improvement.



If only we could get some of these samplers in our DPs. I guess it all needs to match up together. No point having one component miles ahead of any other. On the other hand, that might explain the way current DPs are made - everything being adequate but mediocre.

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#2008574 - 01/03/13 02:32 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
personne Offline
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Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals.

What is better, to play 15K piano or 3K piano.

I do not doubt concert grands in the best concert halls will win from any home acoustic piano, however it is not a reason not to play pianos at home.

If someone's piano makes them happy (acoustic or digital), why bother.

Do not like this price battle, frankly speaking.


Edited by personne (01/03/13 02:39 PM)
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#2008578 - 01/03/13 02:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
peterws Online   content
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Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is . . "

I am NOT a noob. I am a FREE MAN!
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#2008580 - 01/03/13 02:37 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
"Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is . . "

I am NOT a noob. I am a FREE MAN!


You're a free noob!

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#2008582 - 01/03/13 02:38 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: personne


Do not like this price battle, frankly speaking.


Couldn't agree more. Price has no relevance in a "what do you prefer to play?" question.

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#2008586 - 01/03/13 02:42 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
personne Offline
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Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: ando
Price has no relevance in a "what do you prefer to play?" question.


I would personally prefer to play a concert grand, however home conditions (space, room acoustics, noice requirements)make me play what I play, and it is quite satisfying instrument smile
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#2008603 - 01/03/13 03:15 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Dominik Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 8
I bought a NU1 two weeks ago. The first motivation was to be able to play during the evening without having the neighbors bumping on the wall. Today I play about 95% of the time with Headphones.
I tried the Silent systems on the AP and I was a little bit disappointed. It also increases the price of the piano dramatically.


Edited by Dominik (01/03/13 03:15 PM)

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#2008611 - 01/03/13 03:32 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
CarloPiano Offline
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Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 148
Talking about prices, I agree that there's a minimum standard on an acoustic piano to be enjoyable/playable/etc. But it's not starting on $8000 (or other currencies). We forget there are available excellent second hand instruments, refurbished and guaranteed, for much less money the cost new. For instance, Yamaha U1 or, even better, U3 can be found relatively cheap ($3000?), and any of them, been in good shape, are astronomically far from the best digital piano.

The sound production is different in AP's and DP's. The best speakers will never ever reproduce what strings and wood make, they are different worlds. I love DP's, I see their advantages, they have their place, I own and use a pair of them but... nothing feeks like the real thing. So, answering the first question that opened this thread, no, I don't prefer the digital, generally speaking. I would prefer them on some special situations.

Maybe a high end DP costing arround 2500 eur may beat in some aspects a Yamaha B1, Young Chang or other really terrible pianos. But any minimum standard AP, even second hand but well maintained costing from 3000 eur as I said, will beat the best DP. We can talk about DP's (almost) quiet practice, portability, preventing problems with neighbours and others but an acoustic piano is an acoustic piano. At least on classical repertoire, any accomplished pianist (or in progress) must practice regularly on an AP and, sooner or later s/he must think on owing one. Better if it's a grand but if not, at lest a tall enough upright.

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#2008619 - 01/03/13 03:53 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: CarloPiano]
personne Offline
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Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: CarloPiano
Maybe a high end DP costing arround 2500 eur may beat in some aspects a Yamaha B1, Young Chang or other really terrible pianos. But any minimum standard AP, even second hand but well maintained costing from 3000 eur as I said, will beat the best DP.


I would say minimum AP will beat DP is some aspects (not in all) as well:

1. DP at 2500EURO has very nice samples recorded, AP (new) below $15-20K do not provide with the similar tone quality although they superior in some other aspects - they do not sound nicer any longer.
2. Action is heavier on upright APs (but lighter on a very fine grand for $40K)
3. DPs are quiet! I can practice them as much as I wish, AP I cannot practice or play more than 1/2 hour a day.
4. I cannot force myself into buying second hand.

As I mentioned, I like nice APs, just in my case it cannot be the only instrument.

PS. The argument more and more resembles, what is better - electric or acoustic guitar, steak or watermelon smile


Edited by personne (01/03/13 04:05 PM)
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#2008644 - 01/03/13 04:49 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
CarloPiano Offline
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Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 148
Originally Posted By: personne
1. DP at 2500EURO has very nice samples recorded, AP (new) below $15-20K do not provide with the similar tone quality although they superior in some other aspects - they do not sound nicer any longer.


Depends on what do you qualify as "nice". While maybe the base naked tone may sound "nicer" on a DP just for the fact it has been recorded or modeled from a superior piano (usually a perfect in tune concert grand), the rest of the features (the body of sound, resonance...) are missing. That's why I prefer a new U3 (circa $8000) or a Kawai RX-2 ($14000?) over the best DP sound.

Quote:
2. Action is heavier on upright APs (but lighter on a very fine grand for $40K)


I disagree. There are almost as many weights of actions in AP's as AP's there are. There are very light and swallow actions, heavy as heck and so on, medium, etc. But the fact DP's actions are usually lighter than many uprights and lighter than most grand pianos doesn't make them preferable.

Quote:
3. DPs are quiet! I can practice them as much as I wish, AP I cannot practice or play more than 1/2 hour a day.


Yes, that's a clear advantage. IMHO that makes DP's the perfect complement to an AP.

Quote:
PS. The argument more and more resembles, what is better - electric or acoustic guitar


I think they cannot be compared. Electric guitar is considered a new instrument, with different capabilities, expressive qualities and even music styles than the acoustic guitar. Digital pianos are not a new instrument, they are imitations, wannabe substitutes. I think a better comparison is between electric piano (such as Rhodes, Wurlitzer...) and acoustic piano. But which one is better, digital or acoustic piano? I have no doubt: acoustic, while DP's are very interesting and useful.

Quote:
steak or watermelon smile


Is there a vegetarian here? smile

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#2008667 - 01/03/13 06:02 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
xorbe Offline
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Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 568
Loc: Mt View, CA
I have an entry level dp, and I played my cousin's Kawai baby grand last week (if you can call it playing lol) ... now I don't know how up-to-date her piano maintenance is, but the action surprised me as gritty compared to my easy-peasy dp. Of course she plays for a church, so it's a no-brainer decision for her. It was just so loud in her "small" piano room though (w/carpet, padded furniture, drapes, etc.) And when the sustain is pressed, there is that huge sound that's associated ...

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#2008675 - 01/03/13 06:26 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: personne
I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals.


laugh laugh

Don't worry you are safe to say it. It's just that lately some people (myself included) think that the main brands have stagnated or are stagnating. Why? Because marketing gives them better results than I+D.

So, IMO DP are not that FAR away from acoustics, but that final mile is taking so long that we are getting impatient and we have to show them the whip.

Carlos

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#2008677 - 01/03/13 06:29 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals."

Keep ya sense of humour, man! . . .hahahaahaha
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008734 - 01/03/13 08:53 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: xorbe]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10743
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: xorbe
I have an entry level dp, and I played my cousin's Kawai baby grand last week (if you can call it playing lol) ... now I don't know how up-to-date her piano maintenance is, but the action surprised me as gritty compared to my easy-peasy dp. Of course she plays for a church, so it's a no-brainer decision for her. It was just so loud in her "small" piano room though (w/carpet, padded furniture, drapes, etc.) And when the sustain is pressed, there is that huge sound that's associated ...


I think this phenomenon is what really makes the difference between acoustic and digital. An acoustic sound just carries better than a digital. Even with a great speaker system, VSt, what have you - it just does not produce the same kind of sound. I also note that when I play an acoustic I can feel the vibrations in the instrument, whereas I cannot with a digital. Thus, it seems "dead" to me, or like I'm playing a toy.
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#2008768 - 01/03/13 10:40 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Hubert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 27
I always hope that digital piano can be a direct replacement of AP. But after few years I found that it just won't happen because how the sound propagates out from a piano is kind of impossible to be emulated by speakers, also the DP fails in the area of "connection to the piano". I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....

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#2008781 - 01/03/13 11:18 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hubert]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Hubert
I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....


You should mention what your setup is. I'm always interested to hear from people who are at least pretty happy with their setups. Excellent data in the forming of opinions (it's too hard to find a way to spend a decent amount of time with each the various pianos and speakers mentioned here).

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#2008806 - 01/04/13 12:44 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 40
It would depend on the situation and personal preference. Some people might actually prefer the digital over acoustic sound.

For myself, I have a Casio PX330 which fits nicely among 25 guitars in my music room on my property, it is far enough away from the main house not to drive my wife crazy. The Casio sounds and plays enough like a piano to suit my current needs,has a lot of fun sounds and sounds really good with an amp, but granted, if I had the funds, there would be a Mason & Hamlin AA as well as a much larger building to contain it.

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#2008813 - 01/04/13 01:18 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: gvfarns]
Hubert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Hubert
I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....


You should mention what your setup is. I'm always interested to hear from people who are at least pretty happy with their setups. Excellent data in the forming of opinions (it's too hard to find a way to spend a decent amount of time with each the various pianos and speakers mentioned here).


oh yes I should have mentioned that:
N1, Vintage D, sound card: Creative 0404USB, monitor: Neumann KH120a

I did consider few monitors including Yamaha MSP5, Genelec 8030a and Neumann KH-120a, but after trying them out I ended up with the KH120a. Both the treble and bass sounds more natural with the KH120 than 8030a. The downside to the KH120 is the bass for the lowest octave, but this kind of response is expected for all monitors around this size.

For the VST I have both Ivory II and Galaxy Vintage D, the type of sound I target for is an openness sound which we get when playing AG, it's hard to descride, just not a "directly targeting in my face" type of sound. But since Ivory is quite closely mic, I couldn't get it to sound right through the monitor when I sit at the player position, it sounds like I'm putting my head near the lid of an AG. And I ended up using Vintage D.


Edited by Hubert (01/04/13 02:27 AM)

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#2008823 - 01/04/13 02:20 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: gvfarns]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
Concerning set ups, I used to play in this restaurant near Windermere. I used a stereo accordian (ohner) 50W amp, one speaker either side o` me. The stereo from the piano was pronounced anyway, but it gave a good spatial feel.

An old lady piano teacer in her 80`s told me my piano "had a good tone" . . bless her cotton socks. She won`t be here now.

I was also told by the staff that efforts to create the equivalent atmoshere (by use of canned music) had failed, so I kept my job.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2009181 - 01/04/13 10:51 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
hamlet cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 103
Loc: Mojave Desert
I definitely prefer digital, hands down, no question. But then I'm kind of un-pure in that, I like things like effects, layering sounds, portability, ease of recording, etc. Digital made it possible for me to play, whereas without them I would not have a chance to play. Digital was also used in most of the music that is close to my heart, not all, but it certainly has more influence.

Would I own an acoustic if the opportunity presented itself? Yes. Would I give up my digital for an acoustic. No way, never.

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#2009388 - 01/05/13 10:52 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: hamlet cat]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
It does seem people forget that if it wasn`t for digitals, loads of folk wouldn`t be playing now. But there`s not too many Digital Pianos that don`t have stuff on `em which would distract a young `un from learning pure piano. . .


Edited by peterws (01/05/13 10:53 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2009425 - 01/05/13 12:08 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
If you want to buy an acoustical piano then why don't you buy one? I bet most of you won't, cause you want some of the features and advantages that come with a digital piano that an acoustical piano lacks. You all are just good at complaining.


Edited by adak (01/05/13 12:12 PM)
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2009457 - 01/05/13 01:20 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
It does seem people forget that if it wasn`t for digitals, loads of folk wouldn`t be playing now.


No, nobody has forgotten that - it's just not what the question was about.

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#2009491 - 01/05/13 02:40 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: UK
I wasn't going to join in, since I think it's a stupid question smile

I prefer both.

A 'good' acoustic for piano.

A good digital for its versatility.

If I could only have one; with my circumstances and music requirements, it's a digital.

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#2009576 - 01/05/13 05:31 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: spanishbuddha]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"I wasn't going to join in, since I think it's a stupid question"

You still don`t have to pal.


Edited by peterws (01/05/13 05:47 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2009623 - 01/05/13 06:43 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
This topic brings to mind the orange juicer I got for Christmas. I just today bought a bag of oranges and tried out the juicer for the first time. And now I'm thinking that acoustic vs. digital is like fresh-squeezed vs. bottled. The same thinking applies to both. One is more convenient and less costly ... but the real thing wins every time. There's no comparison.

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#2009658 - 01/05/13 07:28 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8373
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Congrats Mac!

Looking forward to seeing you over on www.juicingworldforum.com!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2009660 - 01/05/13 07:31 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Well, I don't drink juice. If I want orange juice I simply eat an orange. Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.

There's no comparison. smile
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#2009664 - 01/05/13 07:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 589
I prefer digital for the portability and variety of sounds and settings one can use. Also not having to worry about tuning and playing at 3am is a big plus for me. If I have an idea for a song in the middle of the night, I can just put headphones on.
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
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#2009666 - 01/05/13 07:36 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 589
- I wouldn't drink orange juice near a digital piano, but would defintely put a plate and eat an orange near an acoustic.
-Would worry about ruining the contacts on the digital
_________________________
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Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2009675 - 01/05/13 07:56 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
I often agree with what you write, but not this time:
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.
With this electric juicer, there's nothing left out. All that's left over is the orange peel. Everything else goes into the glass. (I like lots of pulp, so I set the strainer to the "open" position ... and there's virtually no waste.)

Am I being presumptuous in assuming that you don't eat the peel? smile I don't.

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#2009790 - 01/06/13 12:23 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 458
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
With this electric juicer, there's nothing left out. All that's left over is the orange peel.

The leftover peel is something left out. I am for leaving out the outermost part of it. With fruits and vegetables most of the nutrients are often in the skin just under the part exposed to the environment. But juicing everything can make something wonderful taste like a juiced shoe.

I would agree with the orange analogy.

There are times when I prefer bottled orange juice for a variety of reasons but never because I crave a fresh orange and one is unavailable to me. I crave my DP in its own right. (Again I think I should point out I am only a piano noodler.)

BTW, If you mix in some bottled pineapple juice with bottled orange juice the result will taste closer to fresh squeezed orange juice.

In a similar vein I have found that mixing in a little harp can improve the sound of a DP (I have only been able to try this in software as harps are not widely included with the built-in sounds of a DP).

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#2009791 - 01/06/13 12:23 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: MacMacMac]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I often agree with what you write, but not this time:
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.
With this electric juicer, there's nothing left out. All that's left over is the orange peel. Everything else goes into the glass. (I like lots of pulp, so I set the strainer to the "open" position ... and there's virtually no waste.)

Am I being presumptuous in assuming that you don't eat the peel? smile I don't.


Drinking juice does not have same feel and touch as eating an entire orange.
With digital pianos, at least you do not play them disassembled smile
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2009888 - 01/06/13 08:31 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: o0Ampy0o]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10743
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
With this electric juicer, there's nothing left out. All that's left over is the orange peel.

The leftover peel is something left out. I am for leaving out the outermost part of it. With fruits and vegetables most of the nutrients are often in the skin just under the part exposed to the environment. But juicing everything can make something wonderful taste like a juiced shoe.

I would agree with the orange analogy.

There are times when I prefer bottled orange juice for a variety of reasons but never because I crave a fresh orange and one is unavailable to me. I crave my DP in its own right. (Again I think I should point out I am only a piano noodler.)

BTW, If you mix in some bottled pineapple juice with bottled orange juice the result will taste closer to fresh squeezed orange juice.

In a similar vein I have found that mixing in a little harp can improve the sound of a DP (I have only been able to try this in software as harps are not widely included with the built-in sounds of a DP).


Like most metaphors, this orange thing breaks down somewhere...but entertaining nonetheless. Slightly OT (but on topic regarding orange juice):
http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2011/08/09/what-is-in-orange-juice/
_________________________
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2009920 - 01/06/13 10:15 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"In a similar vein I have found that mixing in a little harp can improve the sound of a DP.. . "

I`ve always wonderd why an AP has something of a harp sound given certain conditions . . .That is interesting. I have a harp on my DP. this could be serious fun. .

I don`t know the rules on sticking to the question, but peripheral issues can raise up good stuff. My thoughts.


Edited by peterws (01/06/13 10:18 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2010461 - 01/07/13 08:00 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Morodiene]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3122
Loc: Northern England.
"Like most metaphors, this orange thing breaks down somewhere...but entertaining nonetheless."

You`re right. We need a Metaphor Posting. Mine would be "Scrumpy" v "Strongbow" referring to cider. The first gives you a headache . . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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