Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Quest for the <$500 piano / old piano lovers disease stage 1

Greetings all,

Wanted to say howdy and introduce myself. Seems like a great forum, and look forward to your insights / admonitions / diagnosis. After years of pining we finally have the room to have a piano in our lives again, and are on the hunt. Current circumstances dictate a budget of ~$500. I know that's a little crazy, but then we are little crazy.

We're not piano players, but are a musical family and are looking for an instrument rather than a shiny piano shaped piece of furniture. I have very fond memories of the hours spent plunking away on the family's old horribly out of tune baby grand at my grandmothers house (a 1910s Henry Miller I want to say), and would very much like for my boys (not to mention my wife and I) to have the same opportunity. I give that time and experience a lot of credit for my life long love of music, even if I never turned out to be much of a pianist.

We also have a bit of a problem with loving old broken down nice things, and I suspect I have a serious latent case of old piano lovers / collectors syndrome. My first car at age 18 in the early 90s was a 1973 Saab Sonnet III with a 65hp V4 that required a precarious dance between throttle, clutch and brake to keep it from stalling at traffic lights if that gives you some kind idea of what you're up against here. I'm also an engineer, and have always thought it would be great fun to learn how to tune and repair old pianos. As a teen I used to collect antique cameras and repair old tube radios, and resold them through my mums shop to sustain the habit. Hopeless, I know.

Phoenix feels like something of a black hole for old piano buying, but maybe its my imagination. Pianos that would be out on the front porch with a "free" sign where I grew up in Maine are listed here for $300-800. I came pretty close to buying a very worn 1938 Baldwin R in LA, but chickened out when the bidding got to $350. It sold for $358. Still kicking myself, but it was probably for the best Though I do have to admit that renting a truck and driving to LA to pickup a 650 lb 80 year old piano in relatively unknown condition doesn't sound terribly out of character...

From what I've read so far here and elsewhere, I'm guessing our best bet is likely going to be to find something like an Acrosonic Console, or maybe something like an older smaller Baldwin or Yamaha upright. I'm still tempted by some of the middle of the road 1920s-1940s American smallish (but not real small) grands, but not sure how much sense that really makes. I gather they can be easier to work on, but seems like they could easily turn into money pits without much hope for retaining the value of any repairs/improvements. Lots of points for character though Looked at ads recently for a Starr, a Lester and a Drachmann (with a colorful history) that were somewhat intriguing. I still dream of finding a Baldwin or better, but the odds seem slim on our budget

Anyway, that's my story Any thoughts appreciated.

Rob Smith
Phoenix, AZ

Greetings, fellow Old Things Collector

Our story is almost identical to yours (I even have the engineer husband!). When it was time to move from digital to acoustic, we simply tried every freebie within 50km until we found one that was mechanically sound and sounded reasonable. Found an approx 1960 iron framed upright in very good shape musically. Got it shipped home for about $150, then serviced and tuned for another $200. Cheap piano, ultimately. Best bit is it turned out to be far better than some $1500 pianos we tried. Upshot, dont overlook the freebies. Especially those built after about 1950.

Forgot to add that we all play our piano, every day. kids and parents!

Hi Rob - Welcome to Piano World!

There are many members here who also suffer from the same disease and they seem to be surviving well even in stage IV of the condition. I'm sure that our revered monitor will have an encouraging prognosis.

Were it me, I would try a heavy infusion of Craigslist. Certainly an area as large as Phoenix would be able to provide the proper remediation of which you desire. I would surmise that the owners of such instruments might imbibe in a daily newspaper. You might place an add seeking just the very sort of situation you are seeking.

Hi Rob! Welcome to Piano World!

What I like about Piano World is the diversity of folks here... there are members here who are professional pianists, technicians, dealers, etc... who own Steinways and Bosendorfers; there are also folks here (like me) who can't play worth a darn but love pianos anyway.

And, not having a lot of money to start with, I have come across a few pianos that were more or less in your price range that turned out to be good instruments (after a little TLC ). The key is to educate yourself on the history and inner workings of acoustic pianos.

The make or brand is a good place to start... some were better than others; there are also a few obscure and little known brands that were fine pianos (AB Chase for example). Also, if an old piano has been taken care of and housed in a friendly environment most of its life, that is another plus and you’ll have something to work with.

And, don’t forget the “fun factor”… old pianos can be a lot of fun. However, if you are not careful, you can sink a lot of money in a piano that you’ll never recover, unless you keep it and play the value out of it; and, you still have an old, warn-out piano.

Oh yea, another thing I’ve learned about pianos… newer is usually better, if you want a playable, musical instrument.

Good luck and keep us informed of your piano adventure (I’ve had a few memorable ones myself )!!

Rick

Here's one from Craigslist...found it 30 seconds after reading your story

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/msg/3508759351.html

Spend $200 on a digital keyboard, so you have something to play as an instrument, and then pick up any free piano, and see if you can make it work. Tinkering with a piano is far different than tinkering with an antique radio. You need hundreds of dollars of specialized tools just to start, not to mention specialized parts. Did you know there are 4,000 moving parts in a piano?

Finding a $500 piano that is a musical instrument is like finding a reliable $500 used car: very rare. More importantly, any worn-out instrument will be a serious obstacle to any beginner. Imagine trying to learn to drive on your tricky Saab Sonnet!

A good piano taken care of can be in great shape after 20 years. Most pianos older than about 50 years have little life left, due to the natural deterioration of the wood, leather, and felt. So age is a big indicator of quality.

Start with the excellent website www.pianobuyer.com, and read all about used pianos. Get a cheap or free one, get the Reblitz book (not the one on player pianos), and have at it (see the book list under Resources at www.ptg.org). But seriously, get a cheap keyboard to play while you're figuring out how on earth to reinsert an upright hammer assembly, or to start the hammer flange screw when the jack is in front of it.

--Cy--

That Craigslist piano looks very interesting. Can't read the fallboard logo, but my guess is it would be an Acrosonic spinet from the late 50's-early 60's.. Very respectable pianos and about the only spinet worth considering. From the photos, it appears to be in decent shape. Take a look at it and judge for yourself.

One thing you can't ever believe is Rick's false modesty about his playing. He does a damn good job at the keyboard!

It is a matter of patience and luck looking for a playable old piano in the low $100s, but it can be done. Craigslist is about your only option for these as piano stores will price anything decent at much more, I would think. You will have to play a lot of pianos and ignore a lot of owner's stories to find a piano worth buying. Still, it can be fun searching if you take your time and don't buy the first one that has 88 working keys. Good luck! I have owned a lot of these old pianos myself and can say one or two actually weren't bad.

The Acrosonic is from the late 60s or 70s, as it has wire lifters rather than wooden ones. This Kimball or this one with a Sherman Clay label may be better bets.

Yup - and the posting has already been deleted by its author !!

That said - I peruse the Phoenix Craigslist piano listings on an almost daily basis - and there are plenty of interesting older instruments to be found there.

Hello. I'm also new to pianowold, BTW.

I think you can find a piano for less than $500 that is mechnically sound and pleasing to play. I've helped people (students) do this many times.

The key is allowing enough time. Don't be in any hurry, and your piano will come along. As has already been mentioned, Craigslist is a great place to look.

I also suggest visiting your local piano dealer and playing some of their used instruments to get an idea of what a lower cost used instrument can sound like.

I'll repeat and stress what has already been stated - to find a decent $500 piano will require lots of patience, don't be in a hurry. And expect to spend more than usual having them checked out by a tech. There is a reason there are pianos to give away.

Start out by reading Larry Fine's piano book. You will find it very useful and it's interesting reading. Check for brand names that have aged better than others.

In time you may find a jewel! I did!

There is a site called Piano Adoption which has free pianos in various states. www.pianoadoption.com

Sent you a PM. Click "My Stuff" next to the flashing envelope.

--Andy

It's not that difficult to find one if you are standing in a room full of 450 antique pianos, We haven't gotten to Hoarder Status yet. I've had recording artists come in and spend 7 - 10 hours just looking at inventory. I know there is a guy in sourthern California that does what we do and that is closer to you. I will try to find his name/location.

J.C
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
since 1918
Lascassas TN

Thanks all for your kind words and wisdom Will check out all your recommendations on books and websites.

We have an m-audio 88 key semi-weighted keyboard we currently use, but it just doesn't smell/feel/taste the same

Patience is likely to be the hard part, but I understand its importance. I've set an app up to monitor CL within a few hundred mile radius, so we'll see what turns up over time....

Its really nice to find a community that clearly loves these instruments, and has room for such a wide variety of forms of appreciation!

Rob

Just ordered Reblitz and Fine's books, and found the latest supplement online. Looking forward to reading

So here's a potentially useless hypothetical question: based on what I've seen come by on CL/ebay in the past few weeks, how would you order the following potential standouts that have come in at least theoretical spitting distance of this price range. Again bearing in mind we're talking musical family / tinkerer / issues with loving romantic ruins piano, not so much serious student or pianist.

I realize its a pretty useless question as condition and abuse will factor heavily, and there's no substitute for getting out there and playing some pianos, and presumably better names dropping into this range will be more abused, but it still might be a fun game

- Really old (1870s-1910s) full upright: Steinway, M&H, Janssen, Howard, Baldwin, Chickering (Bros not Sons)...
- Old (say 30s-70s) Studio / Upright: Yamaha, Baldwin, Hardman, Hamilton, Howard, Kawai...
- Old (maybe 40s-80s?) Console/Spinet: Acrosonic/Baldwin, anything else even worth considering? seen Sohmer, George Steck, Ivers and Pond, Yamaha...
- Old (1910s-1940s) American Baby (pref 66"+) Grand: Baldwin (seems unlikely), Knabe, Sohmer, Conover, George Steck, Starr, Howard, Hardman, Kranich&Bach, Story&Clark, Ivers& Pond, Henry Miller, Lester, Drachmann...

Somewhere along the line Kimballs fell off the "worth considering" list, is that unfair? Am I inciting a holy war with that question?

At this kind of price I assume smaller will make more sense, but the lure of the "grand" siren song is hard to tune out... I suppose another factor is this likely won't be the last piano we ever buy, so something we either don't put vast sums of money into (say an acrosonic) or have a reasonable chance of recouping a fair amount of whatever is invested (does that ever happen) seems to make sense. In as much as any of this makes "sense"

More than understood if y'all don't want to waste your time playing that game Just trying to start narrowing the focus before I start trekking all over creation. No doubt the above mentioned books will help in that aim as well.

Rob

Rob,

While as I understand it, Kimball became more of a commodity than a piano in the 70s, the earlier models should not be ignored.

A few months ago I received a 1926 Kimball 5'7" baby grand from the grandson of its original owner for the cost of moving. It had not been tuned in a year or two, according to him, but otherwise was intact. I took it on the spot, as there were others waiting in line behind me, without having my tech inspect it. Foolish? Maybe - wait - yes, it was foolish of me. That being said, I went over it as well as I could with my knowledge from being a lurker here for almost 5 years and having an encyclopedic knowledge of the Reblitz piano book.

After it sat in my home for a few weeks I had my tech inspect and tune it. It held a tuning, and was, for the most part, in good shape. After he was done with it he suggested that I have him remove the action to have the key bushings replaced and the action regulated, which he will be doing on Wednesday this week. This will set me back a bit of $$, but in the grand scheme of things I'm still well ahead of what a lesser piano in better condition might have cost me.

Other than someone having applied what appears to be glycerine to the tuning pins to tighten them at some time in the past, the piano is in otherwise good, solid condition. Hammers are barely worn and my tech will be replacing or steaming felts when he works on the action this week and next.

I have no illusions of the value - I was seeking a good, solid instrument that I could begin my practice on for a few years until I am ready to make a serious investment in a newer and finer piano. When that time comes I plan on donating this piano to a worthy cause, possibly a small local church group or a school.

I had your misgivings about Kimball from reading here as well as my own perceptions, which mainly came from the post-70s pianos they made. After doing some research and inquiring amongst some of the respected professionals in the Piano Technician conference I was satisfied that I made a good decision.

Take what you read with a grain of salt - ask direct questions respectfully of trusted professionals who reside here and you'll be able to make the best decision regarding whatever you might come across.

Good luck,

Dan

The sub-$500 Craigslist bargain does exist! I took a $300 chance on a 1920s Chickering Quarter Grand a couple years ago and have been trickling money into improving it. It's in excellent cosmetic condition, holds a tuning well, and I am saving for a full regulation and hammer reshaping to happen in the next couple of months. My tech says he can't believe he's actually recommending putting this kind of work into a piano this age, but this one is worth it!

I wish you luck and joy (and perseverance and patience!) in your search!