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#2008574 - 01/03/13 02:32 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals.

What is better, to play 15K piano or 3K piano.

I do not doubt concert grands in the best concert halls will win from any home acoustic piano, however it is not a reason not to play pianos at home.

If someone's piano makes them happy (acoustic or digital), why bother.

Do not like this price battle, frankly speaking.


Edited by personne (01/03/13 02:39 PM)
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#2008578 - 01/03/13 02:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3714
Loc: Northern England.
"Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is . . "

I am NOT a noob. I am a FREE MAN!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008580 - 01/03/13 02:37 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3620
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
"Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is . . "

I am NOT a noob. I am a FREE MAN!


You're a free noob!

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#2008582 - 01/03/13 02:38 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3620
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: personne


Do not like this price battle, frankly speaking.


Couldn't agree more. Price has no relevance in a "what do you prefer to play?" question.

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#2008586 - 01/03/13 02:42 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: ando]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: ando
Price has no relevance in a "what do you prefer to play?" question.


I would personally prefer to play a concert grand, however home conditions (space, room acoustics, noice requirements)make me play what I play, and it is quite satisfying instrument smile
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2008603 - 01/03/13 03:15 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Dominik Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 8
I bought a NU1 two weeks ago. The first motivation was to be able to play during the evening without having the neighbors bumping on the wall. Today I play about 95% of the time with Headphones.
I tried the Silent systems on the AP and I was a little bit disappointed. It also increases the price of the piano dramatically.


Edited by Dominik (01/03/13 03:15 PM)

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#2008611 - 01/03/13 03:32 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 169
Talking about prices, I agree that there's a minimum standard on an acoustic piano to be enjoyable/playable/etc. But it's not starting on $8000 (or other currencies). We forget there are available excellent second hand instruments, refurbished and guaranteed, for much less money the cost new. For instance, Yamaha U1 or, even better, U3 can be found relatively cheap ($3000?), and any of them, been in good shape, are astronomically far from the best digital piano.

The sound production is different in AP's and DP's. The best speakers will never ever reproduce what strings and wood make, they are different worlds. I love DP's, I see their advantages, they have their place, I own and use a pair of them but... nothing feeks like the real thing. So, answering the first question that opened this thread, no, I don't prefer the digital, generally speaking. I would prefer them on some special situations.

Maybe a high end DP costing arround 2500 eur may beat in some aspects a Yamaha B1, Young Chang or other really terrible pianos. But any minimum standard AP, even second hand but well maintained costing from 3000 eur as I said, will beat the best DP. We can talk about DP's (almost) quiet practice, portability, preventing problems with neighbours and others but an acoustic piano is an acoustic piano. At least on classical repertoire, any accomplished pianist (or in progress) must practice regularly on an AP and, sooner or later s/he must think on owing one. Better if it's a grand but if not, at lest a tall enough upright.

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#2008619 - 01/03/13 03:53 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: CarloPiano]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: CarloPiano
Maybe a high end DP costing arround 2500 eur may beat in some aspects a Yamaha B1, Young Chang or other really terrible pianos. But any minimum standard AP, even second hand but well maintained costing from 3000 eur as I said, will beat the best DP.


I would say minimum AP will beat DP is some aspects (not in all) as well:

1. DP at 2500EURO has very nice samples recorded, AP (new) below $15-20K do not provide with the similar tone quality although they superior in some other aspects - they do not sound nicer any longer.
2. Action is heavier on upright APs (but lighter on a very fine grand for $40K)
3. DPs are quiet! I can practice them as much as I wish, AP I cannot practice or play more than 1/2 hour a day.
4. I cannot force myself into buying second hand.

As I mentioned, I like nice APs, just in my case it cannot be the only instrument.

PS. The argument more and more resembles, what is better - electric or acoustic guitar, steak or watermelon smile


Edited by personne (01/03/13 04:05 PM)
_________________________
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#2008644 - 01/03/13 04:49 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: personne
1. DP at 2500EURO has very nice samples recorded, AP (new) below $15-20K do not provide with the similar tone quality although they superior in some other aspects - they do not sound nicer any longer.


Depends on what do you qualify as "nice". While maybe the base naked tone may sound "nicer" on a DP just for the fact it has been recorded or modeled from a superior piano (usually a perfect in tune concert grand), the rest of the features (the body of sound, resonance...) are missing. That's why I prefer a new U3 (circa $8000) or a Kawai RX-2 ($14000?) over the best DP sound.

Quote:
2. Action is heavier on upright APs (but lighter on a very fine grand for $40K)


I disagree. There are almost as many weights of actions in AP's as AP's there are. There are very light and swallow actions, heavy as heck and so on, medium, etc. But the fact DP's actions are usually lighter than many uprights and lighter than most grand pianos doesn't make them preferable.

Quote:
3. DPs are quiet! I can practice them as much as I wish, AP I cannot practice or play more than 1/2 hour a day.


Yes, that's a clear advantage. IMHO that makes DP's the perfect complement to an AP.

Quote:
PS. The argument more and more resembles, what is better - electric or acoustic guitar


I think they cannot be compared. Electric guitar is considered a new instrument, with different capabilities, expressive qualities and even music styles than the acoustic guitar. Digital pianos are not a new instrument, they are imitations, wannabe substitutes. I think a better comparison is between electric piano (such as Rhodes, Wurlitzer...) and acoustic piano. But which one is better, digital or acoustic piano? I have no doubt: acoustic, while DP's are very interesting and useful.

Quote:
steak or watermelon smile


Is there a vegetarian here? smile

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#2008667 - 01/03/13 06:02 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
I have an entry level dp, and I played my cousin's Kawai baby grand last week (if you can call it playing lol) ... now I don't know how up-to-date her piano maintenance is, but the action surprised me as gritty compared to my easy-peasy dp. Of course she plays for a church, so it's a no-brainer decision for her. It was just so loud in her "small" piano room though (w/carpet, padded furniture, drapes, etc.) And when the sustain is pressed, there is that huge sound that's associated ...

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#2008675 - 01/03/13 06:26 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted By: personne
I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals.


laugh laugh

Don't worry you are safe to say it. It's just that lately some people (myself included) think that the main brands have stagnated or are stagnating. Why? Because marketing gives them better results than I+D.

So, IMO DP are not that FAR away from acoustics, but that final mile is taking so long that we are getting impatient and we have to show them the whip.

Carlos

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#2008677 - 01/03/13 06:29 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: personne]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3714
Loc: Northern England.
"I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals."

Keep ya sense of humour, man! . . .hahahaahaha
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2008734 - 01/03/13 08:53 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: xorbe]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12075
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: xorbe
I have an entry level dp, and I played my cousin's Kawai baby grand last week (if you can call it playing lol) ... now I don't know how up-to-date her piano maintenance is, but the action surprised me as gritty compared to my easy-peasy dp. Of course she plays for a church, so it's a no-brainer decision for her. It was just so loud in her "small" piano room though (w/carpet, padded furniture, drapes, etc.) And when the sustain is pressed, there is that huge sound that's associated ...


I think this phenomenon is what really makes the difference between acoustic and digital. An acoustic sound just carries better than a digital. Even with a great speaker system, VSt, what have you - it just does not produce the same kind of sound. I also note that when I play an acoustic I can feel the vibrations in the instrument, whereas I cannot with a digital. Thus, it seems "dead" to me, or like I'm playing a toy.
_________________________
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#2008768 - 01/03/13 10:40 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Hubert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 27
I always hope that digital piano can be a direct replacement of AP. But after few years I found that it just won't happen because how the sound propagates out from a piano is kind of impossible to be emulated by speakers, also the DP fails in the area of "connection to the piano". I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....

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#2008781 - 01/03/13 11:18 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Hubert]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Hubert
I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....


You should mention what your setup is. I'm always interested to hear from people who are at least pretty happy with their setups. Excellent data in the forming of opinions (it's too hard to find a way to spend a decent amount of time with each the various pianos and speakers mentioned here).

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#2008806 - 01/04/13 12:44 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
dkong99 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 44
It would depend on the situation and personal preference. Some people might actually prefer the digital over acoustic sound.

For myself, I have a Casio PX330 which fits nicely among 25 guitars in my music room on my property, it is far enough away from the main house not to drive my wife crazy. The Casio sounds and plays enough like a piano to suit my current needs,has a lot of fun sounds and sounds really good with an amp, but granted, if I had the funds, there would be a Mason & Hamlin AA as well as a much larger building to contain it.

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#2008813 - 01/04/13 01:18 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: gvfarns]
Hubert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Hubert
I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....


You should mention what your setup is. I'm always interested to hear from people who are at least pretty happy with their setups. Excellent data in the forming of opinions (it's too hard to find a way to spend a decent amount of time with each the various pianos and speakers mentioned here).


oh yes I should have mentioned that:
N1, Vintage D, sound card: Creative 0404USB, monitor: Neumann KH120a

I did consider few monitors including Yamaha MSP5, Genelec 8030a and Neumann KH-120a, but after trying them out I ended up with the KH120a. Both the treble and bass sounds more natural with the KH120 than 8030a. The downside to the KH120 is the bass for the lowest octave, but this kind of response is expected for all monitors around this size.

For the VST I have both Ivory II and Galaxy Vintage D, the type of sound I target for is an openness sound which we get when playing AG, it's hard to descride, just not a "directly targeting in my face" type of sound. But since Ivory is quite closely mic, I couldn't get it to sound right through the monitor when I sit at the player position, it sounds like I'm putting my head near the lid of an AG. And I ended up using Vintage D.


Edited by Hubert (01/04/13 02:27 AM)

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#2008823 - 01/04/13 02:20 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: gvfarns]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3714
Loc: Northern England.
Concerning set ups, I used to play in this restaurant near Windermere. I used a stereo accordian (ohner) 50W amp, one speaker either side o` me. The stereo from the piano was pronounced anyway, but it gave a good spatial feel.

An old lady piano teacer in her 80`s told me my piano "had a good tone" . . bless her cotton socks. She won`t be here now.

I was also told by the staff that efforts to create the equivalent atmoshere (by use of canned music) had failed, so I kept my job.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2009181 - 01/04/13 10:51 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
hamlet cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 103
Loc: Mojave Desert
I definitely prefer digital, hands down, no question. But then I'm kind of un-pure in that, I like things like effects, layering sounds, portability, ease of recording, etc. Digital made it possible for me to play, whereas without them I would not have a chance to play. Digital was also used in most of the music that is close to my heart, not all, but it certainly has more influence.

Would I own an acoustic if the opportunity presented itself? Yes. Would I give up my digital for an acoustic. No way, never.

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#2009388 - 01/05/13 10:52 AM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: hamlet cat]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3714
Loc: Northern England.
It does seem people forget that if it wasn`t for digitals, loads of folk wouldn`t be playing now. But there`s not too many Digital Pianos that don`t have stuff on `em which would distract a young `un from learning pure piano. . .


Edited by peterws (01/05/13 10:53 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2009425 - 01/05/13 12:08 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
If you want to buy an acoustical piano then why don't you buy one? I bet most of you won't, cause you want some of the features and advantages that come with a digital piano that an acoustical piano lacks. You all are just good at complaining.


Edited by adak (01/05/13 12:12 PM)
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2009457 - 01/05/13 01:20 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3620
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
It does seem people forget that if it wasn`t for digitals, loads of folk wouldn`t be playing now.


No, nobody has forgotten that - it's just not what the question was about.

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#2009491 - 01/05/13 02:40 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2394
Loc: UK
I wasn't going to join in, since I think it's a stupid question smile

I prefer both.

A 'good' acoustic for piano.

A good digital for its versatility.

If I could only have one; with my circumstances and music requirements, it's a digital.

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#2009576 - 01/05/13 05:31 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: spanishbuddha]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3714
Loc: Northern England.
"I wasn't going to join in, since I think it's a stupid question"

You still don`t have to pal.


Edited by peterws (01/05/13 05:47 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2009623 - 01/05/13 06:43 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: North Carolina
This topic brings to mind the orange juicer I got for Christmas. I just today bought a bag of oranges and tried out the juicer for the first time. And now I'm thinking that acoustic vs. digital is like fresh-squeezed vs. bottled. The same thinking applies to both. One is more convenient and less costly ... but the real thing wins every time. There's no comparison.

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#2009658 - 01/05/13 07:28 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9410
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Congrats Mac!

Looking forward to seeing you over on www.juicingworldforum.com!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2009660 - 01/05/13 07:31 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: peterws]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5277
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Well, I don't drink juice. If I want orange juice I simply eat an orange. Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.

There's no comparison. smile
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#2009664 - 01/05/13 07:34 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
I prefer digital for the portability and variety of sounds and settings one can use. Also not having to worry about tuning and playing at 3am is a big plus for me. If I have an idea for a song in the middle of the night, I can just put headphones on.
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#2009666 - 01/05/13 07:36 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
- I wouldn't drink orange juice near a digital piano, but would defintely put a plate and eat an orange near an acoustic.
-Would worry about ruining the contacts on the digital
_________________________
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Casio PX-130
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Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2009675 - 01/05/13 07:56 PM Re: Does anybody else prefer the Digital . . . [Re: Dave Horne]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: North Carolina
I often agree with what you write, but not this time:
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Drinking just the juice leaves out all the parts of the orange that you get from eating an entire orange.
With this electric juicer, there's nothing left out. All that's left over is the orange peel. Everything else goes into the glass. (I like lots of pulp, so I set the strainer to the "open" position ... and there's virtually no waste.)

Am I being presumptuous in assuming that you don't eat the peel? smile I don't.

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