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#2008239 - 01/02/13 10:03 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: currawong]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
[I don't think think it's that simple. That's part of it, but many people have big egos, and certainly at the professional level there are major monetary considerations involved in the result of a competition.
carey said playing the piano is not about winning. He was speaking about more than competitions. Of course big things sometimes hang on the results of competitions. But I would still say "playing the piano is not about winning".


Everybody who joins adult piano competitions has different objectives.
Most of the participants are so so pianists (not bad, but not good), including me. For people like me, our challenge is to be able to perform well in front of people. If we can accomplish this, we are happy and if we can get into semifinal, we consider that we have won. However, the better pianists who have the ability to perform well have different objectives. They want the next level which is to win!

The most important point is that people who join adult piano competitions are different type of people. Most adults do not like to play in front of people. They feel that it is a torture, but the people who join the adult piano competitions love the thrill and the challenge. If these people only want to play beautiful music, they can just join piano club, and play for each other.

If people say that they play just is not just to win, why many of these people got so upset when the did not advance to semifinal. Some even cried (in the hotel room, of course), or I saw somebody throwing a tantrum. However, most people do know their ability and limitation so they accept the reality and just enjoy the thrill.



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#2008243 - 01/02/13 10:14 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
....Many even cried....

Come on! grin

If the rest of your reporting is as accurate as that....well, sorry but this might give us even more doubt about what you've been saying in this thread.

I very much doubt that "many" have "cried" at any of the amateur competitions. (Unless somebody happened to have a sack of onions on them during the announcements.) ha

Taking together all 10,000 of the amateur competitions I've been to (give of take) grin ....I've seen 1 person cry, and one other be perhaps visibly on the verge of tears over the announced results.

Edit: I see that you edited "many" down to "some."
Good job. smile

But that still probably overstates it. I'd guess that maybe you saw one.


Edited by Mark_C (01/02/13 10:15 PM)

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#2008244 - 01/02/13 10:18 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Mark_C]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
....Many even cried....

Come on! grin

If the rest of your reporting is as accurate as that....well, sorry but this might give us even more doubt about what you've been saying in this thread.

I very much doubt that "many" have "cried" at any of the amateur competitions. (Unless somebody happened to have a sack of onions on them during the announcements.) ha

Taking together all 10,000 of the amateur competitions I've been to (give of take) grin ....I've seen 1 person cry, and one other be perhaps visibly on the verge of tears over the announced results.

Edit: I see that you edited "many" down to "some."
Good job. smile

But that still probably overstates it. I'd guess that maybe you saw one.


They cried after they go back to their room. They do not show it in public! Not to mention those who got upset why this person advance etc.... Public face is different from what they really feel inside.

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#2008247 - 01/02/13 10:21 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
How many people's rooms did you go back to at that competition? grin

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#2008333 - 01/03/13 03:20 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Mark_C]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5277
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
How many people's rooms did you go back to at that competition? grin

I'm thinking of a Four Seasons song right now... three guesses which one? laugh
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2008344 - 01/03/13 04:13 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
How many people's rooms did you go back to at that competition? grin

I'm thinking of a Four Seasons song right now... three guesses which one? laugh

Y'know, I don't know -- and I should.

The Four Seasons are (is?) my favorite-ever non-classical group or performer, by many miles. I was never particularly into popular music and didn't seek it out, but back in the day, I would hear stuff on the radio a lot because somebody always had it on -- and whenever there was a song that really grabbed me, it was almost always the Four Seasons. And I've since gone to hear Frankie Valli a few times, and still check regularly to see where he'll be.

Nevertheless, I have no idea. ha
All I can think of is Save It For Me, but I don't think that works.

BTW: Probably the reason I don't know is, I don't hear words! Or hardly. I just tune them out. I think I just have a resistance to anything about music being concretely representational. That's also one reason that I prefer untranslated vocal music: I want there to be as little danger as possible that I'll understand the lyrics. But even in English, I mostly just don't hear the words. The only lyric of "Ronnie" that I know is "Ronnie." "Sherry" is a bit of an exception: I know two of the words -- Sherry, and baby. grin

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#2008449 - 01/03/13 09:56 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Mark_C]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2693
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
"Sherry" is a bit of an exception: I know two of the words -- Sherry, and baby. grin

I think the next line is, "Won't you come out tonight"

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#2008491 - 01/03/13 11:47 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5277
Loc: Philadelphia
You guys are cracking me up.. I was thinking of: "December, 1963 (Oh What A Night)". Then apply to Mark's quip: "How many people's rooms did you go back to at that competition?" wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2008518 - 01/03/13 12:52 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
You guys are cracking me up.. I was thinking of: "December, 1963 (Oh What A Night)". Then apply to Mark's quip: "How many people's rooms did you go back to at that competition?" wink

Let's see.... grin

"....Oh what a night,
You know I didn't even know her name
But I was never gonna be the same
What a lady, what a night!
Oh, I got a funny feeling when she walked in the room
And I, as I recall it ended much too soon
Oh what a night...."


OK, how many people's rooms.... ha

P.S. I never realized songs had lyrics like this so far back (1975) -- I would have thought not until a couple of decades later.

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#2008610 - 01/03/13 03:31 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
That's Bob Gaudio, with help on the lyrics by his wife Judy Parker. I'm in the same camp as you are Mark - the Four Seasons are my all-time favorite pop group, and Gaudio, who wrote almost all of their many hits, has to be among the top song writers in the rock field. I used to think of The Four Seasons as just Frankie Valli, but more and more I think you have to put Bob Gaudio first, who gave The Four Seasons influence topped only by The Beach Boys and The Beatles.

Okay, that's my plug for a brilliant song writer. You may now return to your regularly scheduled argument.

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#2008660 - 01/03/13 05:40 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Numerian]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6062
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Numerian
That's Bob Gaudio, with help on the lyrics by his wife Judy Parker. I'm in the same camp as you are Mark - the Four Seasons are my all-time favorite pop group, and Gaudio, who wrote almost all of their many hits, has to be among the top song writers in the rock field. I used to think of The Four Seasons as just Frankie Valli, but more and more I think you have to put Bob Gaudio first, who gave The Four Seasons influence topped only by The Beach Boys and The Beatles.

Okay, that's my plug for a brilliant song writer. You may now return to your regularly scheduled argument.


The Drummer Gerry Polci sang the lead vocals. Frankie sang back-ups.
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#2008662 - 01/03/13 05:41 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: RonaldSteinway]
fuzzy8balls Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 465
Loc: San Diego, CA
Once again, another amateur piano competition thread by Ronald stereotyping capabilities of participants. Look, we don't need this kind of negative cynicism. I understand you want to be in touch with reality, and that's fine -- but please just keep it to yourself and use it as a way to improve.

Everyone should try their hardest to achieve what they want. What I absolutely hate about your attitude is that just because someone isn't talented enough or doesn't have the professional training, that they shouldn't even try. You are the killer of dreams and hope -- maybe you don't have any left but don't ruin it for the rest of us.
_________________________
YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/user/fuzzy8balls

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#2008761 - 01/03/13 10:14 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: Numerian]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Numerian
....the Four Seasons are my all-time favorite pop group

How cool is that!!

Quote:
....and Gaudio, who wrote almost all of their many hits, has to be among the top song writers in the rock field. I used to think of The Four Seasons as just Frankie Valli, but more and more I think you have to put Bob Gaudio first....

Yes. And I never even heard of him till I looked up some things during this discussion.

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#2008763 - 01/03/13 10:16 PM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: fuzzy8balls]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19637
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: fuzzy8balls
Once again, another amateur piano competition thread by Ronald stereotyping capabilities of participants. Look, we don't need this kind of negative cynicism. I understand you want to be in touch with reality, and that's fine -- but please just keep it to yourself and use it as a way to improve.

Everyone should try their hardest to achieve what they want. What I absolutely hate about your attitude is that just because someone isn't talented enough or doesn't have the professional training, that they shouldn't even try. You are the killer of dreams and hope -- maybe you don't have any left but don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I think Ronald gives us a good punching bag. grin

I also hope and trust that nobody will actually be discouraged by what he says.

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#2010468 - 01/07/13 08:20 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: fuzzy8balls]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
Originally Posted By: fuzzy8balls
Once again, another amateur piano competition thread by Ronald stereotyping capabilities of participants. Look, we don't need this kind of negative cynicism. I understand you want to be in touch with reality, and that's fine -- but please just keep it to yourself and use it as a way to improve.

Everyone should try their hardest to achieve what they want. What I absolutely hate about your attitude is that just because someone isn't talented enough or doesn't have the professional training, that they shouldn't even try. You are the killer of dreams and hope -- maybe you don't have any left but don't ruin it for the rest of us.


If I had that attitude, I myself would not have participated in any amateur piano competitions, and would not practice hard to improve myself so that I can do better. What I said is a reality and wanted to share with people who are just got into this amateur pianist competition world so that they can plan well. As they get better, they can adjust their expectation so that they can manage their time wisely by practicing something that they are very unlikely to perform.

For people like you, it is a different story. You know that the worst you can do is to be the top players in semifinals, but most likely you will be in the finals all the time. Therefore, your planning is totally different from that of who always fell apart in the first round. Unfortunately, most people in this forum are not in the top 6 or 8 pianists of any piano competitions. Hence, they need to smell the coffee, not smoke something thinking that they will be in the final and wasting their time to practice the whole program.... I'd rather share the reality than being pretentious.

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#2010546 - 01/07/13 11:37 AM Re: one opinion of an amateur piano judge [Re: cefinow]
slipperykeys Online   blank
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 358
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: cefinow
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys


Does anybody remember the series "The Wonder Years"?

Kevin takes piano lessons in one episode and plays a piece at a recital for other students. He plays poorly but is very upset when another child plays the same piece well and the teacher explains why she allowed that to happen.

Typically, and most usefully.... I have forgotten the explanation!
Well, it was a long time ago but, as was often the case in The Wonder Years, it was a beautiful study of humanity, challenge and life-lessons.



This piqued my interest, so I looked up the episode in question and found a transcript. To sum up the missing explanation... At a dress rehearsal a week before the recital, Kevin finds out that his teacher's star piano pupil is playing the same piece he is! He is dismayed. Star pupil plays a flawless rendition. Teacher announces that she wants to show how two performers have a different interpretation of the same piece. Kevin then plays, and bombs. Despite encouragement, he withdraws from the recital. ... then regrets it. Here's the closing sequence, while Kevin is watching the star pupil play "his" piece at the recital.

[Shot of KEVIN stopped on his bike, looking toward the house in the background.]
NARRATOR: I never did forget that night. I remember the light glowing from Mrs. Carples' window. And I remember the darkness falling as I sat out there on the street looking in.
And now... More than twenty years later... I still remember every note of the music that wandered out into the still night air. The only thing is... I can't remember how to play it anymore. [He rides his bike off down the street.]


Thanks, so... that's what happened!

I haven't seen it in twenty or so years and would love to see it again.

The point is, the teacher SUPPORTED both students and that's the difference.

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