Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
101 registered (AmandaH, AndrewJCW, accordeur, AmateurBob, alans, 25 invisible), 1347 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#2012977 - 01/11/13 05:37 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: KarelG]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: KarelG
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Upright
In fact there exist grand pianos with longer keys in the bass region.


That is not a typical piano design though. 99.9% of pianos use same length keys.


well, I've seen concert grand August Forster with this design and also C.Bechstein concert grand on their promotional video. So it looks like the design of difference in key lengths is not that un-typical at the end... See AF at least here: http://www.pianos.cz/sites/PIANOS.cz/repository/Image/galerie/images/img1532-large.jpg


They're just part of the 0.1% - and they are concert grands. Most pianos don't do this. Can I inspect one Ferrari and make the conclusion that all cars have a 600hp V12 engine? The statement I was responding to was:

"Do all the keys have the same pivot length? On an acoustic grand they don't. The long bass strings require a deeper strike point, so the overall key length increases from treble to bass."

It is stated as a rule for all pianos. But this is not true. It's only true for a small number of pianos.

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Kawai Superb Stage Piano and Controller

Click Here


#2012988 - 01/11/13 05:43 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4281
Loc: North Carolina
Whether they're all the same length or whether some are slightly longer ... does it really matter? At all?

Top
#2013032 - 01/11/13 07:12 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: MacMacMac]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Whether they're all the same length or whether some are slightly longer ... does it really matter? At all?


Not really!

Top
#2013052 - 01/11/13 07:37 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2368
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I guess once the keys reach a certain length, perhaps further increases wouldn't be very noticable, or at least, not very important. And it's a simple matter of adding mass if we want to duplicate the feel as closely as possible of those huge bass keys & large hammers. Still interesting to know that the key length does vary on some pianos though.

Greg.
_________________________
Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte

Top
#2013057 - 01/11/13 07:54 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3493
Loc: Pennsylvania
I recall when I asked about key length on the tuner's forum there was some discussion that when keys get long they begin to have too much flexibility, which can make them hard to play. It was a bit of a contentious issue, though, iirc. I think there's probably an optimal length.


Edited by gvfarns (01/11/13 07:55 PM)

Top
#2013073 - 01/11/13 08:32 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: gvfarns]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2956
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I recall when I asked about key length on the tuner's forum there was some discussion that when keys get long they begin to have too much flexibility, which can make them hard to play. It was a bit of a contentious issue, though, iirc. I think there's probably an optimal length.
It's another one of those moving targets because A) its subjective and B) in a complete key strike, it's one of dozens of critical measurements and ratios.

Like string length, there are limits due to material characteristics, but if you change the material, the result becomes foreign and no longer subjectively pleasing.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#2013237 - 01/12/13 06:03 AM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: PianoWorksATL]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4464
Loc: Northern England.
"when keys get long they begin to have too much flexibility, which can make them hard to play."

I can`t think of any DP where there`s a remote possiblilty o` that happening . . !
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2013285 - 01/12/13 08:37 AM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: sullivang]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
It is even very possible, that the given very long key length on a concert grands are not just for the sake of the playability at all, but as a compromise between playability and the need of having able to place the hammer where it can hit the string in an optimal position.

A given ratio of the two parts before and behind of the hammer point is regarded as optimal for sound quality and intensity.

Top
#2014221 - 01/14/13 04:11 AM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: ando]
JohnSprung Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 2076
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: ando
[Umm, no....

Have you ever actually seen an acoustic action? If you had, you'd know that the keys are all the same length


I've seen a few, and measured my Knabe. It's 13 1/4" for key #1 (A0) and tapers down to 11 3/8" for key #88 (C8).
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

Top
#2014285 - 01/14/13 08:25 AM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: JohnSprung]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: JohnSprung
Originally Posted By: ando
[Umm, no....

Have you ever actually seen an acoustic action? If you had, you'd know that the keys are all the same length


I've seen a few, and measured my Knabe. It's 13 1/4" for key #1 (A0) and tapers down to 11 3/8" for key #88 (C8).


It's still in the extreme minority. Most are same length. The weighting of the keys and the heavier hammers account for the heavier response in bass notes. You must have inspected an unusual sequence of actions to have not seen that the vast majority that have the same key length. Or you've mostly seen very large concert grands.

Top
#2017941 - 01/20/13 04:53 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
Pedro_Henrique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 91
Loc: Ribeirão Preto, São Paulo, B...
James... do you know if the GF action will be on slab kawai DPs?
_________________________
"But its got a crap keyboard action Dave ... no amount of great sounds help that."
Dr. Popper

Piano Student at University of São Paulo - Ribeirão Preto
Piano Pedagogy and Peformance Student at Music Department of FFCLRP - University of São Paulo


Top
#2017942 - 01/20/13 05:00 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10776
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I do know, but cannot comment I'm afraid.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2017990 - 01/20/13 07:02 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
nord stage piano has very long keys.

Top
#2017992 - 01/20/13 07:04 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: zapper]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zapper
nord stage piano has very long keys.


?????

I repeat:

?????

Top
#2018009 - 01/20/13 07:49 PM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: peterws]
Pedro_Henrique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 91
Loc: Ribeirão Preto, São Paulo, B...
Actually, I think Fatar's action is very small. I don't feel confortble playing it on kurzweil's boards. I think Yamaha have smaller keys than Roland (MOx8 compared to RD-300NX), but Roland doesn't have a key that can be compared to an acoustic... By the way, the Grand Piano from Anphitheater is a Kawai RX-2. I like those keys, feels just fine, and the length just pleased me, and didn't hurt my hands. Small keys sucks for playing, and doing those boring exercises my teacher ask me to do.
I'm really interested on GF action on a slab piano... If kawai do it, I'll have to wait because the price here is overpriced always... We pay at least 68% more they pay in USA(comparing to dollar).
_________________________
"But its got a crap keyboard action Dave ... no amount of great sounds help that."
Dr. Popper

Piano Student at University of São Paulo - Ribeirão Preto
Piano Pedagogy and Peformance Student at Music Department of FFCLRP - University of São Paulo


Top
#2018161 - 01/21/13 04:04 AM Re: Digitals with the LONGEST keys . . [Re: Kawai James]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2639
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I do know, but cannot comment I'm afraid.

James
x

So that's a yes then! smile

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Back to School Music SALE!
Save 10% in our online store
.
Just enter SAVE10 in the coupon box during checkout. *
And YES, you can save 10% AND still get free shipping on Jansen Artist benches!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
* Sale does not apply to advertising, how old requests, or any non-tangible items. Can not be combined with any other promotions. Ends August 31, 2015
(ad) Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Teacher Recommending Less Practice?
by TX-Bluebonnet
08/30/15 11:03 PM
What should I do after high school with the piano?
by boogiewoogie123
08/30/15 09:51 PM
Carrying bag for NP11 ?
by indigo_dave
08/30/15 07:40 PM
Steinway Piano #600,000
by phantomFive
08/30/15 06:46 PM
Yamaha P-105 split balance
by blotchy
08/30/15 05:57 PM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,575 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,544 Topics
2,440,551 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission