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#2009950 - 01/06/13 11:30 AM Recognoize these pianos?
Searching_Piano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 2
Hi.

I am looking for an used piano. Can anyone identify these two pianos posted on Craigslist? The brands are on the posts but I am wondering if anyone has used these pianos and has any thoughts/comments. I am a total newbie to pianos - so this may be a very strange question to answer.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/3525739390.html (Post says Baldwin)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/3525196260.html Wurlitzer;

Thanks.

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#2009966 - 01/06/13 12:24 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Searching - Welcome to Piano World!

The first appears to be an Acrosonic spinet, built by Baldwin. It probably dates from the late 60's or 70's as it has the metal fallboard logo and not the applied decals. Ya can't argue with the price. Many will tell you to never get a spinet, but the Acros are about the one exception. It could be decent (or not).

Wurlitzer consoles are not as well built as the Baldwin line. They were an entry level piano from this era. If the piano is playable, it might be OK, but I would try to get the price down to ~$350 or less.

The common adage at PW is to always have a used piano inspected by a qualified technician, but in this price range, it is hard to justify the additional $100 or more. Do you play or have a friend who does?

Ultimately, it might come down to what you like as far as tone and touch and preference in cabinet style.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2009973 - 01/06/13 12:34 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8534
Loc: Georgia, USA
Marty gives good advice... smile

I'd take the free Baldwin spinet over the $500 Wurlitzer console.

With that said, I play a Wurlitzer console at a nursing home once a month, and it sounds and plays OK. I’m not sure where Wurlitzer got such a bad reputation for poor pianos…

Good luck, and welcome to Piano World (a world of piano fun smile )!

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2010001 - 01/06/13 01:34 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
A good selling point for a spinet is that Jerry Lee Lewis' spent most of his recording time in the studio on a spinet. Sure he played grands on stage but most of the piano recordings from his era were on spinets
_________________________
J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation

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#2010003 - 01/06/13 01:37 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Nash. Piano Rescue]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: Nash. Piano Rescue
A good selling point for a spinet is that Jerry Lee Lewis' spent most of his recording time in the studio on a spinet. Sure he played grands on stage but most of the piano recordings from his era were on spinets


Very interesting...never heard that before...do you have any documentation of it?

(Big Jerry Lee fan here!)
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#2010005 - 01/06/13 01:42 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1620
Loc: Toronto
And on a side note, Jerry Lewis preferred a spinet typewriter over the larger models for his live shows smile

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#2010137 - 01/06/13 04:52 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8534
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Nash. Piano Rescue
A good selling point for a spinet is that Jerry Lee Lewis' spent most of his recording time in the studio on a spinet. Sure he played grands on stage but most of the piano recordings from his era were on spinets

I can believe this... years ago (many years ago smile ) I played the bass guitar for a semi-pro Gospel singing group. I had the privilege of playing on a record album they recorded in Nashville, Tenn. The recording studio was on that street in Nashville where there are nothing but recording studios as far as the eye can see (forget the name of the street). The studio was an old house converted to a recording studio.

I was surprised at the small, no-name brand bass amp they used for the bass guitar recording. I guess the quality of the recording was dubbed with the electronics and not the bass amp itself. They did have a nice Baldwin baby grand for the piano recording though.

I would imagine Jerry Lee Lewis could make a spinet sound great!

Oh yea, I happen to be a big Rocket88 fan. thumb

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2010146 - 01/06/13 05:01 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3336
I never recommend pianos like this to my customers, and if they already have one, I occasionally tell them to throw it out (I made such a recommendation to someone just last week!). The problem is that these pianos are often not in very good playing condition; this means that if you pay $500 for the piano, and then you have to pay another $500 or more to get it into acceptable playing condition, you're just about halfway to what it would cost to find something newer and of much better quality. I think it is extremely unfortunate when people are suckered into buying stuff that was, frankly, never all that great to begin with, and is now way, way past its prime!

If you must, go look at the Baldwin. If you find that:

1. All the keys work, are level, square, and void of chips
2. The inside of the piano is relatively clean and the hammers aren't severely grooved
3. It doesn't sound horribly out of tune

Then, it might be ok. Since you are new to pianos, it wouldn't hurt to bring a piano technician with you. At the very least, you'll learn more about pianos and how they function, and that's worth $100 just by itself. You may also consider a digital piano, and it may indeed be a better option since acoustic pianos are expensive to maintain.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2010181 - 01/06/13 06:20 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: beethoven986]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
I never recommend pianos like this to my customers, and if they already have one, I occasionally tell them to throw it out (I made such a recommendation to someone just last week!).


Searching is not your customer.

Have you ever though of trying to be helpful rather than always playing Scrooge? It's possible for someone to be as excited about getting any piano, as it is to be as excited about buying a Steingraeber E-272.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2010196 - 01/06/13 07:24 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3336
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
I never recommend pianos like this to my customers, and if they already have one, I occasionally tell them to throw it out (I made such a recommendation to someone just last week!).


Searching is not your customer.


Marty, I have this really nifty customer database that helps me keep track of who my clients are. While I appreciate your assistance, I can manage on my own, thank you.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Have you ever though of trying to be helpful rather than always playing Scrooge? It's possible for someone to be as excited about getting any piano, as it is to be as excited about buying a Steingraeber E-272.


I laid out my position. If you don't like my position (which has plenty of useful information in it, btw), that's your problem, not mine, so don't complain to me about it. The OP is free to take my advice, or not. There's no need to get yourself wound up about it.

And if you want to talk about being helpful, telling a piano novice that "it's hard to justify the $100 or more" to have a piano inspected is horrendously bad advice, even if the piano is of nominal monetary value. While it may not save the purchaser from making a five-figure mistake, it may save over $1,000 over the course of buying, moving, and disposing of a non-functional instrument. And, it's a wonderful opportunity to learn about the piano.

Lastly, I don't need to be lectured about value. I'm young, and between student loans and business costs, I don't have a lot of money; so, it is important for me to spend more if it means saving more in the long run. With that in mind, I would rather advise someone to spend more money upfront on something like a gently used Yamaha or Kawai upright (even if it means saving up money delays the purchase), since it will not likely need to be upgraded to something else in the future. I mean, has it occurred to you that many of these Craigslist spinets are given away because their owners down't want to spend a few hundred dollars to throw them out?! Get off your high horse smile smile smile



_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2010205 - 01/06/13 07:32 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: beethoven986]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5290
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
I never recommend pianos like this to my customers, and if they already have one, I occasionally tell them to throw it out (I made such a recommendation to someone just last week!). The problem is that these pianos are often not in very good playing condition; this means that if you pay $500 for the piano, and then you have to pay another $500 or more to get it into acceptable playing condition, you're just about halfway to what it would cost to find something newer and of much better quality. I think it is extremely unfortunate when people are suckered into buying stuff that was, frankly, never all that great to begin with, and is now way, way past its prime!

If you must, go look at the Baldwin. If you find that:

1. All the keys work, are level, square, and void of chips
2. The inside of the piano is relatively clean and the hammers aren't severely grooved
3. It doesn't sound horribly out of tune

Then, it might be ok. Since you are new to pianos, it wouldn't hurt to bring a piano technician with you. At the very least, you'll learn more about pianos and how they function, and that's worth $100 just by itself. You may also consider a digital piano, and it may indeed be a better option since acoustic pianos are expensive to maintain.

On the other hand a lot of Baldwin Acrosonics were purchased by families in which no one played the piano at all. Having a piano in the home proved that they were a family of class and culture and -- who knows? -- one of the kids might want to take lessons one day. There were a few other brands that found their way into this kind of social service as well but, in my experience at least, there have been far more Acrosonics than anything else.

I've seen more than a few of these with actions and hammers that showed no signs of wear at all despite being 40 or 50 years old.

As a matter of principle, I'd like to see folks getting larger pianos. But the OP could do a lot worse than end up with a lightly used Acrosonic. Assuming, of course, that this is a lightly used piano.

ddf


Edited by Del (01/06/13 07:39 PM)
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2010215 - 01/06/13 07:51 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Del]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3336
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
I never recommend pianos like this to my customers, and if they already have one, I occasionally tell them to throw it out (I made such a recommendation to someone just last week!). The problem is that these pianos are often not in very good playing condition; this means that if you pay $500 for the piano, and then you have to pay another $500 or more to get it into acceptable playing condition, you're just about halfway to what it would cost to find something newer and of much better quality. I think it is extremely unfortunate when people are suckered into buying stuff that was, frankly, never all that great to begin with, and is now way, way past its prime!

If you must, go look at the Baldwin. If you find that:

1. All the keys work, are level, square, and void of chips
2. The inside of the piano is relatively clean and the hammers aren't severely grooved
3. It doesn't sound horribly out of tune

Then, it might be ok. Since you are new to pianos, it wouldn't hurt to bring a piano technician with you. At the very least, you'll learn more about pianos and how they function, and that's worth $100 just by itself. You may also consider a digital piano, and it may indeed be a better option since acoustic pianos are expensive to maintain.

On the other hand a lot of Baldwin Acrosonics were purchased by families in which no one played the piano at all. Having a piano in the home proved that they were a family of class and culture and -- who knows? -- one of the kids might want to take lessons one day. There were a few other brands that found their way into this kind of social service as well but, in my experience at least, there have been far more Acrosonics than anything else.


Of course these are valid points, and I'll just say that I started out on a keyboard (back in the early '90s when they didn't have all this fancy stuff), and then I had a Chinese upright (again, back in the day before they built decent instruments).... I ultimately studied piano at the M.Mus. level. But of course, in today's market, there are much better options for people at (I assume) the same price point that spinets were at back in the day.

Originally Posted By: Del
I've seen more than a few of these with actions and hammers that showed no signs of wear at all despite being 40 or 50 years old.


I have too, and they were surprisingly unoffensive, but most of the ones I've encountered have been basket cases.

Originally Posted By: Del
As a matter of principle, I'd like to see folks getting larger pianos. But the OP could do a lot worse than end up with a lightly used Acrosonic. Assuming, of course, that this is a lightly used piano.


True, which is why I'm advocating caution. The ad doesn't give much to go on, and the OP is self-admittedly new to the piano world.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2010381 - 01/07/13 03:09 AM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Searching_Piano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 2
Hi All.

Thank you so much to each and every one, with any kinds of advice. The piano is for my 9 year old son, who has been learning "piano" on a 76-key keyboard for the past 2 years. Someone suggested a "smaller" piano like a spinet may be a good idea for a younger child. Also (and more importantly) we don't have space for a large piano. I thought a large spinet; or a console will be my best choice, size-wise. I have never learned piano and have no idea about the instrument.

So, to further qualify my question -- I have read on some websites that within spinets, some are larger and some are smaller; and the larger, the better. Is there any truth to that? e.g. this Baldwin looks pretty tiny - actually tinier than any other piano I have seen so far on the internet - but sounds like most of you prefer this Baldwin (if this is in good condition). There are a number of Kimball,Halle & davis, Kohler etc. etc. on the Craigslist, about $250-$400. They seem to me like larger spinets. Is that at all an issue, or all spinets have the same shortcomings anyway? I understand that this answer is not that simple -a good quality piano badly maintained may be worse than a bad quality piano well-taken care of; but still there may be some general ideas you all have about this.

I will take a technician with me, but not to multiple piano. I want to be able to make an informed screening; before i call a technician. Hence all these questions. Thanks again in advance.

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#2010391 - 01/07/13 03:34 AM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1620
Loc: Toronto
From the little I know about spinets, the undesirable attribute is in the inferior action design (that's the part of the piano that effects how the keys activate the hammers, which in turn strike the strings) Also, spinets have the same footprint as any other upright. The only difference is the height. IMO you'd do better to try and find a more traditional upright. I'm sure if you're willing to be a little patient (or expand your budget a little) a good deal will pop up on a good upright for your son.
Good luck in your search.

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#2010396 - 01/07/13 03:58 AM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5290
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Searching_Piano
So, to further qualify my question -- I have read on some websites that within spinets, some are larger and some are smaller; and the larger, the better. Is there any truth to that? e.g. this Baldwin looks pretty tiny - actually tinier than any other piano I have seen so far on the internet - but sounds like most of you prefer this Baldwin (if this is in good condition). There are a number of Kimball,Halle & davis, Kohler etc. etc. on the Craigslist, about $250-$400. They seem to me like larger spinets. Is that at all an issue, or all spinets have the same shortcomings anyway? I understand that this answer is not that simple -a good quality piano badly maintained may be worse than a bad quality piano well-taken care of; but still there may be some general ideas you all have about this.

I will take a technician with me, but not to multiple piano. I want to be able to make an informed screening; before i call a technician. Hence all these questions. Thanks again in advance.

By definition a ”spinet” is a small vertical piano that is between 36” and approximately 39” tall. Small vertical pianos from about 40” to 44” are called ”console” pianos.

In general you are better off with taller pianos rather than shorter pianos. Most technicians and many teachers tend to look down on spinets because their tone quality is often not very good when compared to larger pianos. This is particularly true in the lower third—the bass—of the scale. As well, their action performance—i.e., their repetition and their touch and feel—is not as good as it can be in larger vertical pianos.

Most spinets use what is called a “drop-action.” This simply means that the action sits rather low in the piano and there is some type of connecting link between the back of the key that “drops” down to actuate the action. This adds complexity to the action and usually detracts somewhat from the precision of the key response. Pianos with drop-actions can also be somewhat more expensive to service if the technician has to remove the action for minor repairs.

Most spinets and console pianos also use what is called a ”compact” action. These actions look like traditional vertical piano actions but some of the parts are shorter, or compact. These actions do not have quite the same “feel” as more traditional, full-sized upright actions. One reason why many technicians and teachers prefer the Baldwin Acrosonic over other spinets is that they used full-sized actions. They had to use a longer drop-action mechanism to accomplish this but the touch and feel of these actions is a little better than that of the typical compact action. Also, the build quality of the Baldwin was generally a little better than that of other similarly sized pianos and they were generally a little more expensive.

While you are looking you might see if there are any ”studio” pianos of similar age available. These are vertical pianos in the 44” to 48” range. Although taller they will generally take a bit less floor space because they do not have to be quite as deep to accommodate the drop-action mechanism. Although American-made pianos from the 1950s to the 1980s are often looked down on because of their sometimes poor assembly quality they do tend to stand up well to time and use. The resale value of a Wurlitzer studio, for just one example, is not much higher than that of a spinet of similar age but the performance potential is going to be much better.

Some of the other brands you’ve mentioned also have potential. As do many others whose names you haven’t encountered as yet. When it comes to buying a used piano its current condition usually is more important than the original brand. A lessor-quality piano that has been lightly used and/or well-maintained will be a better musical instrument than one of better initial quality that has been pounded to death and/or inadequately serviced.

Good luck in your search. Don’t be pressured into buying anything prematurely. Wait and keep looking for just the right instrument. It will be out there somewhere.

ddf


Edited by Del (01/07/13 04:05 AM)
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2010398 - 01/07/13 04:02 AM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 1192
Loc: Nashville, TN
Most spinets and console pianos take up the exact same floor space. AJF is correct that the action design of a spinet is inferior to most consoles. The biggest difference in the size of a spinet and a console is about 4" - 8" of height. Assuming your walls aren't extra short (which I believe would be a safe assumption) you will take up the same floor space but a console will give you a better action and better sound all things being equal. Of course in the world of 40 year old pianos all things are seldom equal.
_________________________
Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.

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#2010690 - 01/07/13 04:31 PM Re: Recognoize these pianos? [Re: Searching_Piano]
Bob M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 208
Loc: North Carolina
Searching piano,

In summer I sold a Wurlitzer console of the same vintage. It was a very decent, entry level instrument, but because the tone was thin, and things like a plywood soundboard, the sliding key cover, rough fitting of the action ( I took it out for cleaning and lub), thin, particle board top, I came to see it as "K-Mart", and wanted better. I ended up with the 27 YO, lightly used piano, below, and even my wife is impressed, because the case is so beautiful (unlike my playing).

Good advice above to take your time looking. Your 9 YO will still make progress on the keyboard. There are some valuable piano "orphans" out there on CL, many for bargain prices. On my CL, there was a 30 YO Yamaha (try to get one at least 42.5 inches tall, which indicates a little longer stringing than the consoles of the 50's-60's) for $550! Also Baldwin-Hamilton studio models clean up really well if not too worn--saw one of those for $600.

Expand your CL search--my Chas. Walter was 400 miles away, but was not hard to get a piano dealer/mover to go get it for me-- they like to keep the guys with their truck moving.
_________________________
Bob M

Charles Walter Model 1520
Yamaha NP 30, NP 11, PSR E333

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