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#2009953 - 01/06/13 11:38 AM Kawai CN34 versus ES7
herbie1666 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
Hi,

I am considering purchasing one of these two instruments but still have a question regarding their capability. As far as I can tell, there are more similarities than differences between these two. They seem to be the same "generation" of technology.

I am tending to the CN34 at the moment so I want to check my understanding of what the ES7 has that the CN34 does not.

It looks like the action is the same on both. They certainly feel similar.

1. Is the tone generator the same between the two? CN34 has far more sounds - not sure why that would be if the tone generator is the same...? I haven't been able to compare side by side in the same shop, but I'm interested to know if corresponding sounds would be identical (on headphones)

2. Are the rhythms on the CN34 the same as the ES7 (same list in the user guides)? I understand that ES7 has auto accompaniment which CN34 does not. I can't see any mention of fill-ins on CN34, which ES7 has.

3. Any other differences? I know there is the physical form and portability, and a difference in sound system amplification. Is effects processing the same on both?

many thanks!

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#2009964 - 01/06/13 12:13 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Hi Herbie,

I can’t help you on the comparison as I’m just taking up playing the piano again after a lapse of 35 years, and am just starting to see what is available. However, I will be buying either a Kawai CN34 or Casio Celviano 650 in another month or two and would be very interested in any info you can find about fair market prices for the CN34. The lowest quote that I’ve found for a CN34 is $2,280, but this seems too high. (Direct conversion using UK prices for the CN34, adjusted for VAT and currency conversion, yield U.S. prices of under $1,650.)

The Casio Celviano 650 will have its U. S. debut at the January NAMM show. (Scroll down to Theeraya’s post at https://www.facebook.com/CasioUSA/timeline?filter=2 and click on “View all 3 comments”) I’ve heard rumors that the 650 will be priced around $1600 but only offered directly through Casio retailers. It apparently will not be offered for sale via Internet stores. (I.E. it will not be for sale through Kraft Music, Amazon.com, etc.)

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#2009969 - 01/06/13 12:28 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
ES7 (apart from physical differences):

+ auto accompaniment
+ Amp simulation

CN34
+ bit more powerful speakers
+ extra sounds , although they are pretty much bread and butter (GM style); most fundamental sounds (AP / EP / few organs) are part of the limited ES7 set. If that is all you need, the extra sounds of the CN34 won't mean a great deal. The Amp simulator on the ES7 is a nice extra.

For the most part CN34 and ES7 are technically pretty much the same. Hope this helps.

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#2010030 - 01/06/13 02:04 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: JFP]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
The gm sounds are nothing spectacular but they enable you to play practically every midi file you can find as a play along. I like that. Apart from that on the cn34 and the auto accompaniment on the es7 they seem to be pretty identical. They cost the same (with stand and pedals) and I wanted a do that looks like a piano, so it was the can for me.

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#2010061 - 01/06/13 02:42 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
herbie1666 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
Thanks all for the info so far.

I had missed the lack of amp simulation. I'll need to have another play on the ES7 to see how much of a loss that would be - it was a pretty cool feature as I recall, so quite a shame!

Excuse my ignorance - what is a GM sound? Are you saying that there are 2 classes of sound - like 36 "proper" samples and then 300 generated, not so good? I didn't listen so closely to the sounds on the Other category of sounds - so many! smile

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#2010094 - 01/06/13 03:29 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
Taking Requests Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/10
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
I'm thinking about buying one of these as well.

They are approximately the same technically (exceptions noted above) - but the curious thing for me is the speakers:

Though the speakers on the CN34 are hypothetically better - I'm not fond of the resulting sound through the speakers. I'm sure it's because of their placement underneath. Basically, yields a sound which is kind of distant. Whereas the upward-facing speakers on the ES7 seem to make everything sound so much better/clearer. Sort of night and day difference I thought.

Anybody else been able to hear these side-by-side?

Would love to hear opinions on this matter.

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#2010247 - 01/06/13 08:52 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8844
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
herbie1666, as others have noted the ES7 and CN34 are very similar in terms of features and specifications, and both use the same keyboard action and sound technology.

Regarding the amp simulation, the CN34 offers this as a combined effect, while on the ES7 it's separated as a standalone feature. In terms of flexibility, the ES7 is therefore slightly superior.

The GM2 sounds on the CN34 are still very usable, however some sounds such as the acoustic pianos are not really comparable with the instrument's 'main' acoustic piano sounds.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2010293 - 01/06/13 10:33 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
For herbie1666
“what is a GM sound?”

GM is short for General Midi – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
GM2 is short for General Midi Level 2 – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI_Level_2

Both formats are used for “generic” musical tones with GM2 a more recent addition.

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#2011047 - 01/08/13 08:08 AM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU

One more difference:

ES7 has the feature of user definable temperaments, CN34 has only a few predefined historical ones.

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#2085682 - 05/20/13 10:49 AM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
EtwasBewegter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Hi! I would like to reanimate the topic as it is extremely actual for me at the moment. My choice is to buy KAWAI CN34 right now or to wait for ES7 for 2 months. The difference in price and cabinet are not so important for me .The only thing I care about is overall quality of piano sound and its authenticity as I am going to play classical piano repertoire. In previous posts there was a opinion that ES7 is a better sounding DP due to a placement of the speakers. Besides ES7 has some exceptional reviews that CN 34 does not have. The opinions of those who had experience with both pianos are greatly appreciated...

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#2092049 - 05/30/13 10:52 AM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: herbie1666]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
I haven’t tried the ES7, but I bought a CN34 several months ago. I play mostly classical music up through Rachmaninoff’s C# Minor Prelude and Chopin’s Polonaise Militaire. (Both pieces are included in the two volume set of “The Library of Piano Classics”.)

The CN34 has about a dozen different piano sounds built in plus assorted electric pianos, organs, etc. I just use the default “grand piano”.

I have no way of comparing the CN34 with anything else, but the CN34 sounds pretty good to me. The opening chords of the C# Prelude sound like rolling thunder and are more impressive than what I remember from a baby grand that I used to play many years ago.

One nice feature that I like on the CN34 (that nobody else seems to care about) is that you can easily lock (and unlock) the panel settings that you are currently using. When I’m playing the Chopin Polonaise, I occasionally accidently hit some of panel controls with my middle fingers when playing black keys (octave combinations) with my thumb and little finger. (The most common result was that the “grand piano” would suddenly switch to a “harpsichord” (left hand) or start the metronome (right hand).) When you lock the keyboard, the CN34 stays in “grand piano” mode no matter what you accidently hit.

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#2092252 - 05/30/13 03:33 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: EtwasBewegter]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 825
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I was in a similar situation when I bought my ES7. I was almost sure that I was going to purchase a CA65, but found myself draw to the ES7 (both very different and great in their own way). I am extremely please with the sound and quality of the ES7. I found myself taking full advantage of it's portability now unexpectedly. Something I did not consider when shopping DPs. If I bought the CA65 I would have eventually need to purchase a decent portable DP.

I have also played the CN34 at the dealer. I liked it very much. Also has many sounds, more than the ES7 (for whatever that is worth). Same action as ES7 which I slightly prefer over the CA65. GF action is outstanding, just the RHII feels better for my hands and fingers for whatever reason. Im not sure the sound of the ES7 is "better" than the CN34 however it is very good considering the placement of the speakers at the top (as you mentioned). CN34 speakers are 20Wx2 compared to ES7 15Wx2. I added some studio monitors but use them rarley, only to play very loud at home for fun. I use a friend's Traynor K4 amp for gigs, and on-board speakers or good headphones for practice.

Im sure you will be happy either way. Maybe the only advice I have is to keep portability in mind, just because of my personal experience and a cabinet is not important to you. It's nice to have the option to move it, take it with you on the road or just buy the nice furniture stand made for it. Let me know if I can answer any other questions for you. Good luck.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2092773 - 05/31/13 10:18 AM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: Marko in Boston]
EtwasBewegter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 7
Thank you, Marko, for your post! Your help is really appreciated! Several days ago I had an opportunity to compare CN 24 ,ES7 and CA Kawai digital pianos. They all sound good and very good so the key action is the main thing. Certainly, CA series are closer to acoustic piano but they are out of my budget. As for ES7 its action was a little bit too lightweighted for me. It lacked some needed resistance . In es7 specifications I have read about touch curve — Light+, Light, Normal, Heavy, Heavy+, Off , User 1, User 2. So my question for you is how does it work? Is it possible to make the key action act a little bit tighter ? And what about User 1 ,User 2 options - do they allow to make some personal additional changes? My last question is about pipe and church organ sounds. I have noticed only one of them during my quick ES7 sounds check. Are there any more organ sounds suitable for classical music? Thank you very much!

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#2092876 - 05/31/13 12:51 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: EtwasBewegter]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 825
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I set my touch curve to "Heavy" as a default. I like to dig in a little to get that feel and sound depending on what I am playing. Not sure how to answer that. I rarely use the organs, however, Church and Drawbar are very nice. Drawbar has a great amp simulator function thats very customizable.

Below is right out of the owner's manual regarding touch curve. It might help answer your questions. Also, you might want to dowload the entire manual if you have not already: http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/ES7/OM/ES7_EN_20120308.pdf

_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2092893 - 05/31/13 01:15 PM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
That`s interesting; on all the pianos I`ve had (one was a Kawai) my recollection of light/heavy key preference was always thus;

Light action - played loud easily as you might expect. Would not play soft and quiet; had a harder tone to start with.

Heavy action - would not achieve full volume perhaps due to a softening of tone throughout, but played lovely softly.

These pianos for the most part also had bright/soft tone settings which seemed to work in exactly the same way . . .Why use one control when two will suffice?


Edited by peterws (05/31/13 01:17 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2093213 - 06/01/13 07:05 AM Re: Kawai CN34 versus ES7 [Re: peterws]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
The touch curve defines how the velocity of the key press is translated into volume.That means with heavy you have to press the key harder to get tyhesame volume than with medium or light. If you play the same way with different touch settings you get of course a different tone but that's not the intended way. The touch curves are thereto accommodate to your abilities and the way you play or the actions that you're used to.

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